If we make our voices loud enough maybe we can finally get these changes 
Btw how about if we voted on some of these changes? It seems like most of us agree on the same things.
You are the one that proposed for cr.fierce hitbox to encompassed the whole scarf >_>
_Cr.Mp +1 on hit
*COUNTER HIT COMBOS POSSIBLE:
cr.mp cr.mp xx spiral = 215dmg/305stun
cr.mp cr.mp xx spark FADC cr.mp xx spiral = 301dmg/395stun
cr.mp cr.mp xx spark FADC cr.hp xx spiral = 329dmg/430stun
cr.mp cr.mp xx spark FADC cr.hp xx HP Reflect = 379dmg/480stun, untechable knockdown (corner)
cr.mp cr.lk cr.mp xx spiral = 232dmg/325stun
cr.mp, cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp xx EX Spiral = 233dmg/34stun
*TRUE BLOCKSTRING
----Gives too much combos possibilities. I didnāt list them all.
_Also adjust her Cr.mk 5 frames start up +4 on hit.
----Again, too much combo possibilities. Damage and Stun output increases VERY FAST after only 1 FADC.
_Add range to Cr. lp (enough range so she can do cr.lp,cr.lk,cr.lpxxlp SSpiral)
----Already possible
_Fr.Mp 5~6 frame start up and 3 active frames
---- Able to combo from Counter hit Cr.mk
_Cr.Hp bigger horizontal hit box
----Able to combo from counter hit cr.mk
_Far.Hp bigger hit box(Stand 1 box away from ken in training room if it hits it perfect) and SF4 frame data -1 on block +3 on hit
----Itās -3 and +1 in vanilla. Cannot jump on Rose from afar anymore. Easy to Anti Air Jumping attacks. (With no trades. It beats every jumping clean.)
_Cr.Hk Old SF4 frames -3~4 on block
ā Unpunishable for at least half the lg. Really need to be close to the opponent to be able to counter her sweep
*_Cl.Hk Better hit box so it doesnāt whiff on Crouchers and 6 frames start up.
COUNTER HIT COMBO POSSIBLE:
cl.mk, cl.HK xx spiral
ā Hitbox downward makes it hit a little more consistently but doesnāt add much.
_FA allow slight adavantage after dash canling or make the hit box bigger(http://shoryuken.com/wiki/images/b/b5/H.Reflect.jpg) and move it foward.
*** SSpiral Damage increased across the board this will increases her overall damage with out over powering her poke game.
_Lk.110 damage
_mk.13~14 frames start up. 125 Damage
_HK.135-140
_ex.130 damage. frames 1~13 invincible with 14 being throw and projectile invincible or 9 frame start up with current invinciblity.**
*SSparks Less recovery across the board 49 for lp and mp 50-51 for Hp.
_Lp.-8~10 on block -4~6 on hit.
_Mp.18~20 frames start up -2 on block +2 on hit
_Hp.22~24 frames start up and kepps current hit annd block data.
_Ex. 110 damage everything else the same.
Some stuff donāt make sense. Because since she has less recovery her frame advantage is also different. With 49F recovery on MP sheās already -1 on block and +3 on hit. and HP Spark is now +4 on block and +8 on hit.
She can do HP Spark, Cr.HP xx MP Spark, cr.lp xx LP Spiral for 324 damage and 335 stun on Sagat, Meterless.
*SThrow Bigger grab boxes .8~1.0 (with current hit boxes the increased grab range should balance out)
*Bring Ultra 1 to 9 frames of start up, with the current ivincibility or sub frames 10 and 11 as frames of fireball invincibility to end of the regual invincibility. So it would work 1~9 Invincible 10~11 Projectile Invincible .Possibly adjust the U1 hitbox so it wouldnt randomly lose to jumpins and other arieal moves at rose forehead during the start up.
OVERALL:
She has lost her archtype. Unfortunately I donāt have anything to record this but she has become a footsie/zoner with heavy damage capabilities and with incredible counter hit damage output. Her stun also goes up extremely fast. I can dizzy anyone that has 1000 stun with one counter hit setup + 1 combo. Her average damage from jump ins got up to around 306 damage and she consistently does 350+ damage with FADC midscreen. In corner she can do:
HP Spark, cl.HK xx EX spark, cr.mp xx HP Spiral which does 394dmg/460stun for 1 EX Bar.
Sheās also very difficult to approach because of less recovery on soul sparks and the bigger hitbox on her far st.HP and cr.HP and her Soul Throw buff. She beats jump ins clean
I didnāt test absolutely everything but with what I just saw I could tell she had the potential of being broken. The only thing sheās missing are mixups (aside of U2). Other than thisā¦you can forget about Cammy lol
- Above average damage
- Excellent Mobility
- High damage Potential
- Excellent Footsies
- Great Focus Attack
- Ok Reversal
- etc.
Lmao cerberus. Part of me is saying keep it just like this, but in all seriousness i didnt expect things to be that over top. ill readjust the frames. I figured her Fadc would be strong but when u listed that combo on sagat for one meter i rolled. I was also thought there was a way to change recovery but retain the advantage and disadvantage.
Surpirsed by the Far.Hp Buff, did you make the box vertically bigger as well as horizontal? I intended for it become better poke with boosted horizontal range (not vertical) but have itās current weakness of lossing against most crouch mkās.
With Cr.mk was it that it comboād too to much after Fadc because of its speed? How was Cr. mp CH combing to Cr.mp it should have only be +3 after CH right? Cr. HK sounds spot on though thats how it was in Sf4 you couldnt really punish it when used correctly you either had to FADc in off a read or just chuck a projectile so rose stayed neutral.
Genistar i know itās possible but the second lp. whiffs after jump inās sometimes and if you try to punish certain things with the combo. My idea was that it was a weaker version of her current cr.lp,cr.lk,cr.mpxxSpiral but it has 2 frame link for less damage but easier use. The Cr.HpxxHkSSpiral is about average punish damage from most of the cast using a Heavy cancled to a Heavy special. Typically you only real land that after bad wiffs or a Jump in.
I donāt know what to really think about spiral damage buffs anymore to be honest. I want them to have more damage like you do but i really dont know if it would really change her character at this point.
If i were to change the damage on spirals i would do this
_Lk.110 damage
_mk.13~14 frames start up. 120 Damage
_HK.130
_ex.130 damage. frames 1~13 invincible with 14 being throw and projectile invincible or 9 frame start up with current invinciblity.
[quote=āGenistar, post:186, topic:151917ā]
I donāt know what to really think about spiral damage buffs anymore to be honest. I want them to have more damage like you do but i really dont know if it would really change her character at this point.
If i were to change the damage on spirals i would do this
_Lk.110 damage
_mk.13~14 frames start up. 120 Damage
_HK.130
_ex.130 damage. frames 1~14 invincible
Well yes they are but at the same time you are changing the frame advantages she is after FADC. Thereās a high possibility that she might end up being more than +5 (sheās normally +5 after Spark FADC) and that would be even more outrageous lol.
I didnāt even boost the hitbox vertically
the hitbox width is normally 0.4 and I only added 0.07 (0.47) and it was enough for me to be able to Soul Spark -> Ken jumps forward -> I do far st.HP to counter him lol.
About cr.mp, since you gave it +1, on counter hit it add 3 more frames, resulting on making it +4 on hit.
The only problem with Cr.HK being back to vanilla is that people will tend of to spam it specially since it has incredible range
I like that hitbox change to st.far.hpā¦
Also this sounds silly but if rose got her counter back without it breaking herā¦ for example making the move do only as much as a reflect which is 50 damage i think. It still can be armor broke and whatever butā¦ its a little bit of extra damage here and there that canāt be comboed off of and cause a soft knockdown. Weād never get that but it would be a nifty idea.
I like it too but from my point of view, she canāt have an upgrade in her pokes and better offensive manoeuvres (better damage, better combos), and better keep away moves.
If we would tried to make Rose exclusively defensive, then I would agree. But sheās not like that. She also has a variety of AAs (Soul Piede, slide, cr.HPā¦) She has the ability to play at all ranges to a certain extent and her biggest weakness is the ability of getting out of pressure once knocked down.
That being said, I think she should either be buffed either by strengthening her ability to deal with pressure (better reversal, stronger U2, Focus attack LVL 1 -> dash doesnāt put her =5 on block, etc) or keep her reversals or ability to deal with pressure weak but vastly increase her main assets (makes her pokes better, increase her footsies capabilities, slight damage buff) but keep EX spiral relatively weak as a reversal: punishable before the active frames, nonpunishable on block but she canāt do anything after that (high chance that she gets pressured in return)
The only current problem I see with EX spiral being -2 on block is that Rose can simply do another EX spiral if the person is pressing the wrong buttons.
we could keep ex spiral with full inv. but in return it should be like -8 to -10 on block to make it fair. Sheād still have a weak wake up game and then you could give her the other changes.
If you want you can use this to show the changes and we could get the rose players in here to talk about about them. http://www.livestream.com/procaster/mac
(Iām a little curious about having a counter. If we made that have like 22 frames of recovery and 4-5 frames start up it would be the worst counter in the game and sheād get fully punished for whiffing.)
I Had a similar idea, in one of my postfrom a couple of years ago. Basically i was saying remove the phsyical hitboxes on her reflects and replace them with a counter mechanic similar to Counter ultras. So reflects would reflect projectiles and alpha counter normals(Lp.SReflect+5, Mp.SReflect would be her old Cr.Hk AC and Hp.SReflect would set up and mid screen SThrow). I was going say something like that for this but i figured that was to grand of a change for Sf4 series rose.
_Also adjust her Cr.mk 6 frames start up +4 on hit.
_Cr.Mp reduce the hurt box -2 on block.
_Fr.Mp 6 frame start up and 3 active frames
_Cl.Hp 2 more active frames
_Fr.Hp range increased to .45 maybe 9 start up +1 on hit -3 on block.
_Cr.Hk Old SF4 -3 on block( you cant combo into or anything so feel it should at least be very safe for frame traps and poking)
_Cl.Hk Bigger hit box to stop whiffing
- SSpiral Damage increased across the board this will increases her overall damage with out over powering her poke game.
_Lk.10 Start up. 110 damage
_mk.14 frames start up. 125 Damage
_HK.135
_ex.130 damage. frames 1~13 invincible with 14 being throw and projectile invincible or 9 frame start up with current invinciblity.
*SSparks Less recovery 49 for lp, mp50.
_Lp.-49 recovery, -9 on block -5 on hit.
_Mp.19 frames start up, 50 recovery -2 on block +2 on hit
_Hp.23 frames start up and keeps current hit annd block data.
_Ex. 110 damage everything else the same.
*SThrow Bigger grab boxes .65~.7 (with current hit boxes the increased grab range should balance out)
*Bring Ultra 1 to 9 frames of start up, with the current ivincibility or sub frames 10 and 11 as frames of fireball invincibility to end of the regual invincibility. So it would work 1~9 Invincible 10~11 Projectile Invincible .Possibly adjust the U1 hitbox so it wouldnt randomly lose to jumpins and other arieal moves at rose forehead during the start up.
*Ultra 2 add +3hit/block stun
_+25 stun to both Orbs.
Edit: I made a coule of changes and add some ideas that other ppl had that i agreed with. I tried to rebalance SThrow and some of hitbox request i made.
That seems like a good idea but if that was possible the catch would probably be she would have to chose which attack to counter. Like she would have to chose between a normal attack and a projectile.
The front page is updated with AE-2012 patch changes and 2013 suggestions
I did. But I think that would make Zangief too free for her. She literally has to stand right out of l. spd range and she wins the match; itās pretty hard for Zangief as is, but with a better cr. fierce, Zangief is finished.
EX Spiral 14f and Focus attackare the ones I want and I will make my own personal post to Capcom Unity for them lol.
At end of the day thats what everyone will do though I think more things we agree on the more likely they are to happen. Its still nice that Cerberus was able to test things though and give an idea of how things might play out good or bad.
Edit: Speaking of Cerberus when you tested out rose you said her FA was very good what did you change?
[quote=āRose, post:196, topic:151917ā]
Yes I was afraid of that too. It can be very difficult to balance a character without affecting other matchups. Maybe if we increased the hurtbox a little bit or Make Zangief get his knockdown back on his EX green hand, bring his health back to vanilla, etcā¦ I mean itās a pretty interesting buff and I believe it could be balanced depending on what Zangief.
I mean we also have to think that itās pretty much GG for Guile throwing EX Boom at mid screen against Rose if we get our 14F invincible ex spiral 
(I actually have to test how well it goes through fireballs at midscreen lol)
I increased the range of the focus attack and made I tested it at -2 and -3 on block. It was the combination of how fast her moves were and she was almost non-punishable on block. I was having fun imagining situations like FA -> cr.lk -> wait a bit -> cl.mk OR cl.hk OR to try and score a counter hit, etc. Anyway Iāve focused on her counter hit damages specially because if was quite easy to open people up (or rather the dummy had no problem opening me up >_>) and the damage was massive lol
Iām currently going to stay at my university the whole night so I will test these when I get back home
We can beat Guile even worse than we already do and Iām okay with that. EX Spiral 14f wonāt make much of a difference because EX reflect works the same.
I kind of wish some of roseās normals had slightly more priority or came out just a tad faster. This is a little silly but i wish she could deal with akumaās pressure a bit better.