first off I don’t play Super much, and I’m a Mahvel player so some of you may already know this…
But against DeeJay in mid ex-rolling sobalt I managed to ex-soul throw him out of it. I thought it was funny.
Tested against Sakura and it is the same. No EX if you don’t cross her up and EX if you do. Even if crouching.
Also what is the range for cross up j.hp? I’m having a hard time getting this to consistently hit.
Jump mk, cr lp, cr lk, cr mp -> soul spiral does actually less damage than jump mk, cr lk, cr mp -> soul spiral. (i.e., better to skip that cr.lp !)
Other good reason to skip cr.lp is because it has one frame less of frame advantage than cr.lk, so if you do jump mk -> cr.lk and you realize your opponent is blocking, you have 1 extra frame to go for the throw (or for the close mk “frametrap”) more comfortably.
Actually, I think cr lp is a much worse move (less range, less frame advantage, less priority than lk), only useful to mash defensively thanks to its 3 frame startup.
If you want to poke the opponent with several light attacks in a row, it might be better to do cr.lk, cr.lk (it won’t combo, but it’s a better offensive string imo).
If you want max damage after the crossover jump mk do close mp, cr.mp -> spiral, it can be hitconfirmed just like cr.lk and gives you the same frame advantage, only difference is that close mp will leave you further away from the opponent so it’s harder to go for the throw if you see he blocked.
ehh…well first off, if you do a crossup j.mk,c.lp,c.lk,c.mp then you can safely HK drill for pressure. If you just c.lk,c.mp,drill then you can get punished. Also c.lk,c.lk does combo, you just need to plink it.
Ah, nice. So you suggest to do cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp -> either mk or hk spiral depending on whether the opponent blocked it or not? Isn’t it just better to go for the throw (or close mk, or backdash) if I see my opponent is blocking?
What about close mp, cr.mp -> hk spiral, is it safe?
Not sure, I’m really not the rose expert and I hardly ever incorporate that combo into my game. I just felt like being a dick, I guess, now that I re-read my first post.
My gameplay is so scripted its embarrassing, but it works. I just always extend my combos to maximum range so I can ex drill if hitting and hk drill if blocked. After the hk drill I will generally plink a c.mp when coming out of recovery into another hk drill that will be safe if blocked and will hit if I score a counter-hit.
If they wise up to it and start throwing out fast normals that CH my c.mp, thats when I start busting out the hk drill>ex drill.
Also, linking c.lk -> c.lk is a 1 frame link, so you really gotta be on the ball with your timing/plinking. I dont think its worth it unless you can c.lk,c.lk,c.mp 99% of the time. BUT, once you get to that point, c.lk -> c.lk is a pretty beastly frame trap on block and c.lk’s hitboxes are amazing.
can someone give me a quick run down on how plinking helps with 1 frame links? as far as I know plinking is pushing 2 buttons super fast one after another, almost pushing them at the same time so that another input of the first button comes out before the 2nd, how does this help with linking, the 2nd press seems to come out way too fast to help with any kind of link. or maybe I’m just missing something.
because if you press a button too late, it hit too late and miss the link. but if you press too soon, the the input is just discarted.
a correct plink create these input into the engine:
frame x : cr.lk
frame x+1: cr.lk+cr.lp aka: cr.lk
so: if the correct timing for your link was getting the input on frame x, then plink is not useful. if the correct input was on frame x-1, then you’ve still miss the link.
but If it was on frame X+1 then the plink reported an input where a simple push would not have reported anything. the first input is discarted, and the plink input report the correct link.
so in short, plink offer a double chance to hit the link.
Anyone know if her cl.st.MK beats OS tech since she hops up? I haven’t used it much at all, but I haven’t been beaten out of it yet, was wondering if it’s viable for wakeup pressure.
Just a straight sc.mk on wakeup isn’t so great because the OS tech is normally delayed so you’ll just have it blocked, but doing a c.lp or c.lk on wakeup into sc.mk has worked decently for me so far. They’re expecting a tick throw and they get kicked in the face instead.
Only problem I have with it is that the pushback is pretty bad and you can only link a c.lp from it, so you’re either going to have to go for a non-hitconfirmed 1 frame link into an unsafe drill (lk) or try c.lp,c.lk,c.mp which the pushback generally doesn’t allow. :shake:
if you have a counter hit, you can link to cr.mp
What makes rose’s back dash better than others? They all seem to have about the 7~8 frames of invincibility.
Her backdash is 22 frames which is tied for the second fastest in the game and her backdash range is 1.2 which is also very high…only surpassed by gen and makoto I think. However, most characters that have a fast backdash dont have a very long range, and characters with a long range are generally slower. I think only chun has the best of both worlds as well.
Another big thing about her backdash is that theres a ton of airborne frames…which doesn’t sound amazing, but I used to play ken. If I got caught in a backdash by a jumpin then I’d eat a fully jump-in combo because hes always considered grounded…but with rose she’ll just eat the air attack and go into her backflip air recovery shaz.
Ah ok, thanks prorook, I’ve never really backdashed much until I started using Rose. It’s been very useful though, wish I’d used it sooner.
What do you guys think of j.LK?
I’m dubbing it the turtle shell cracker.
It comes out fast and straight down on them, as well as slightly towards their back. If they are turtling at fairly close range, looking for you to jump to anti air you, you can use j.LK to really throw off their timing and and get your opening. It seems like it beats all kinds of AA normals.
It’ll beat Akuma’s cr.HP, Ryu’s cr.HP, Balrog cr.HP, Guile’s cr.HP… It beats almost everything somehow. It’s not the that the hit box is amazing cause the active frames overlap her hittable area completely. I think it beats a lot of your opponent’s AA options cause it changes up the timing they have to use to hit you out. If they’re looking for ANY of your other jumping attacks, their timing will be wrong, j.LK comes right down on them very quickly and changes the profile of your hitbox to much thinner where j.MK has a long horizontal area for them to hit/trade with.
So far, no one has beat my well-timed j.LK clean yet, it’s an effective attack. It doesn’t give you a lot of hit stun but it’ll counter hit just as often, if not more often, than it hits normally.
I’m just throwing it out there, but it seems to me that it’s a great way to mix up your jumps a little more. Usually, if I hit them with it once or twice, they stop trying to AA me with a normal and give me some more freedom to try to cross up with j.MK or hit them with j.HP/j.HK.
Lastly, you can cross up with it too and it’s super ambiguous. If you do it in the corner it looks like a guaranteed cross up but you land in front. It’s one of the only moves I’ve found so far that doesn’t cross up in the corner even though it looks EXACTLY like it will.
What do you think???
You make j.lk sound really good. Good enough that I will try it out. I actually have no idea what the move even looks like.
Is it hard to combo after? You said it had little kit stun, is it anything like Akuma’s command dive kick, not the demon flip version? Cause I hate the hit stun on that move.
I’m not sure exactly how long the hit stun is but it’s relatively short. I think the reason the timing on it is strange for your opponent to try to AA is because most jump-in attacks have that horizontal hitbox so the game’s gravity kind of carries you down on top of them so those are a lot easier to time. You can tell pretty easily when they’re going hit you on the the way down from their jump. With j.LK, it actually hits downward so it speeds up the jump in attack by a good amount. You’re not waiting to passively float down on top of them, but are striking downwards and going to them, so the whole process is slightly sped up. I’ve beaten out many character’s AA with it but yesterday, when I beat Akuma’s cr.HP AA attempt, I was like “Ok, this move is actually pretty good.” I was sure he had me but I ended up beating him clean for the counter-hit. I’m not sure WHY it works, but it does… Plus it has 7 active frames so you can time it pretty early and still connect.
I’m not saying spam it cause it’s AMAZING, but if you throw it in here and there you can make them uncomfortable with the timing of their counter attempt and hopefully will end up just trying to block it. Sort of like Vega’s j.HP, it hits down onto you so it hits deceptively fast. Adon has a similar attack from a neutral jump, it hits you quickly after the apex of his jump. Rose’s neutral jump LK has an even steeper incline and the hitbox doesn’t overlap completely (j.LK hit box does overlap completely) so if you’re nice and hit with the very, very edge of it, you probably won’t trade.
Is the frame data on roses’ c.mp correct on eventhubs? It says it’s -3 on block but it feels like it should be better than that.
Yeah, I’m almost positive it’s -3 on block… I think it feels faster because a lot of opponents don’t know the exact timing to counter-attack after blocking.
Just like you or I playing Rose against another character, we probably don’t always know the EXACT time to try to hit them back.
I think the only moves she has that actually give you advantage on block are:
cl.MP (+1 on block, +4 on hit)
cr.LK (+1 on block, +4 on hit)
I think if you hit slide on the very last active frame you have +4 frame advantage, on block I think you’re either even or -1. I still consider -1 a negligible disadvantage though.
cr.MK is +0, +3 and far standing MP is the same, even on block, +3 on hit. Also close standing MK (+0/+3)
Check this link for another frame data source: http://sfframedata.com/walkthrough/pages/ssf4_intro.php?hl=1e9
It’s official Prima guide frame data page for SUPER. They claim they’ve triple checked every move. I think this frame data is more reliable than Event Hubs and the SRK wiki to be honest.
If you compare her frame data to Balrog’s or Ryu’s you’ll will be like “WTF!?!” It seems like they have such better advantages on block it’s freaking ridiculous.
Balrog’s far standing LP is seriously +5 on block and +8 on hit! I don’t even know what to say about that… It’s crazy.
Exactly! I was looking at ryu’s c.mp and I was like wtf that move is ridiculous, I thought rose’s c.mp was better until i saw the frame data.