Rog's Tools of the Trade

Tooserius · May 31, 2011, 7:23am

Hey everyone,

I’m creating this thread for everyone to explore, discuss and explain some of the tools they use with Rog in order to win. It could be something simple such as escaping wakeup pressure with ex punches or various option selects.

Discuss and share.

Btw, give 3nigmat1c credit for the thread. It was his idea.

2Serius

Norieaga · May 31, 2011, 8:20pm

cr. jab (2) x cr. short x Rush Upper x Throw

If your opponent is blocking low and not a masher, this throw fake-out will catch them. If they start to anticipate you’ll throw then you can start a cr. jab hit-confirm once they start tech’ing.

Squirtguns · May 31, 2011, 11:53pm

TAP on wake up can get you out of most meaty cross-up situations. Watch out for them fake cross-ups though.

Also for people who like to stick out pokes after a blocked dash straight, just charge TAP immediatly after the dash straight and reversal it. It’s best to wait until you have super and combo into it, as people won’t be hit with this set up more than once or twice.

Jumping short can beat alot of normal anti-airs. Also useful for messing up peoples tech timing if you occasionally safe jump with it instead of roundhouse/fierce.

oh yea: and mastering the cr. short ~ cr. jab link has won me the round more times than I can recall. Straight up free combo if you hit them while crouch teching.

Tooserius · June 1, 2011, 1:16am

Norieaga, I like to keep pressure via FADCing after the upper to mix it up via throw or just another combo.

Whats the best way to deal with fake crossups?

3nigmat1c · June 1, 2011, 6:47am

Nice, maybe we’ll get some really outlandish new stuff. This is a copy of what I posted from the MU thread:

[1] last ex.hb on wakeup at the end of a match (chip damage).
This isn’t the case in AE, with the added recovery to whiffed headbutt, but when an opponent only has chip damage left and you land an untechable knockdown, doing a LATE ex.hb can beat all of their offensive options in a couple of ways. For the most part, there are no attacks that can beat an ex.hb offensively, except Gen’s [C]U1, LATE Crane Super and Hakans U2. Mostly everyone elses ex attacks will pass through Balrog and he’ll recover first in time to sweep or jab. An opp can’t backdash because of the late headbutt which will catch the backdash. Dont’ get me wrong, if the opponent knows its coming then they have some options, but you’ve probably been doing meaty jab and throw on wakeup, so the options that would beat a meaty throw and a meaty jab don’t beat ex.hb and vice versa. This can be beat defensively by blocking (if they’re balsy, no Xfactor for you!!) if you miscalculated and couldn’t kill them with chip damage, or by low profiling (e.g. Cammy/Ken cr.forward). But obviously this wins to pretty much any other option.

[2]Burning U1/Super (OR TAP) to get out of a mixup
Sometimes you’re stuck in the corner by a rushdown character and you’re having trouble resetting the distance to drop your stun back to zero and regroup. An option is to burn Ultra. There are certain situations where this will work, get you out of the corner, and the opp can do absolutely nothing to chase you. This doesn’t even take into consideration if they know how to deal with the situation. For example, You’re in a mirror match and you do a nj.hp from neutral and the opp has back-charge. He burns ultra to get out of the corner, and because you lost your back-charge, you can do nothing at face value, but you can start charging for TAP during the Ultra freeze, release as you hit the ground to chase (while building back-charge). Ideally the TAP wouldn’t hit, but i’d have enough back-charge to either ex.ru or Ultra 1/Super in return thus thwarting your attempt.

There are also some cases where you may KNOW that an opponents attack won’t chase/punish you, for example, lets say you TAP out of th corner while maintaining back-charge and Abel attempts to punish with Ultra 1. This has really lengthy startup, and your TAP has probably recovered during , so you can stick out a cr.short to stuff it all together, or headbutt/ultra/Super after the ultra freeze. Yes you can just block. But part of training your opponent is showing them that you know when they make mistakes and you know how to punish them.

[3]Random Whiffed Specials
Always pay attention to what your opponents doing, and have a good idea of what specials have similar input to Ultra/super and even what unique normals have similar inputs to specials/ultra/super. For example, if you’re hovering over rose and she wakes up with an HP Reflect and she has U2 and meter, you can probably surmise that that was an attempted wakeup ultra. Most opponents won’t decide to give up on a certain strategy if they fudge the inputs. Another example would be El Fuerte, if he keeps doing ex.guac on wakeup then he’s botching the inputs for U1. In some cases when you just sit by an opponent, knowing that they’re fudging inputs can put you in a better position to punish because you’re ready. Back to the rose example, if she whiffs a soul reflect and you’ll looking for it, you can punish with <insert move here>.

[3]whiffed jab buffered lp.hb
It’s really weird to explain, but sometimes you’re walking towards an opponent and you’re whiffing jabs/normals to busy up the space between you and your op, and they decide to jump in. You can throw out a crouching jab and buffer in the lp.hb so as soon as it completes its animation, an AA lp.hb will come out. Also this can be used to lower your hurt box slightly, similar to when you use crouching normals to low profile fei longs chicken wing. It can make some jump ins whiff where if you were just crouch blocking or offensive crouching it would connect.

Also want to add lp.smash to headbutt as a frame trap (thanks pumpkinbomber!) and cr.lk xx ex.OH. As well as blocked TAP to ex.rush punch as a frame trap for non ex.DPs (works on everyone’s DP except Sagats Angry scarred dp which breaks armor and akuma’s hp.dp)

Rocky_Balboa · June 1, 2011, 3:53pm

I use Rog’s FocusAttack a lot. The range is horrible, but I mainly use it on jump ins and on my opponent’s wake up. If I know that my opponent likes to mash lp/lk on wake up, well timed quick FA will hit as a counter hit and crumble. Also FA backdash covers more range than a normal backdash, so it can be useful in some situations.

Squirtguns · June 4, 2011, 10:24am

Good shit rocky. I’ve been using FA now on wake up for people who like to mash jab. Been working out pretty well. Who knew there was a use for Rog’s FA?

Tooserius · June 8, 2011, 3:08am

Lol. If you manage to catch ppl jumping in on you with it, then you can jab, or far st fr/rh to reset them.

How do you feel about some of Rogs tools in AE?

3nigmat1c · June 8, 2011, 11:14am

You can aa w/cl.mp and cancel into a rush punch to get out of the corner. Haven’t had any opportunity to use it. Also i think that no-one cancels cr.hk into super. I can see it being REALLY useful when opps get smart and try to lvl2 FA cr.hk.

Tooserius · June 9, 2011, 1:51am

yea. I do that all time actually. Remember 3nigmat1c? I’m going to try to AA cl.mp and cancel to get out of the corner.

3nigmat1c · June 9, 2011, 1:55am

yeh, i remember that we’d spoke about that a **while **back. Although it’s probably a bit easier to bait the FA’s out with cr.mk/cr.lk then buffer in Ultra or lk.torpedo to catch them in the backdash.

Tooserius · June 9, 2011, 4:28am

True. lol. damn it’s been that long??

rainscape · June 9, 2011, 8:27am

Just a quick note on the Gief matchup:

If he jumps in on you with j. mk, you can AA him with ex RU and it will cause you to switch sides. Useful if you need to get out of the corner.

Rocky_Balboa · June 9, 2011, 2:53pm

Since the cl.MP is now better, it is also a better frame trap tool. I had some success with c.LP ~ cl.MP xx dash/rush punch. People blocked the first jab, but then tried to crouch tech or something and got blown up by the cl.MP. This is nothing new, but I’m just saying that it worked for me.

Tooserius · June 11, 2011, 5:17am

It has worked for me a bit as well. Hmmmm…

Think cs.mp would be linkable to super or u1?? I tried it with super and I think it may be possible.

rainscape · June 11, 2011, 8:26am

U1: You can’t link into ultra 1 directly, but cs. mp does give you the ability to combo into something that does.
Super: it’s super-cancelable (for the record, links and cancels are different things); but you’re probably better of canceling into a dash punch first, and then super canceling that.

3nigmat1c · June 11, 2011, 10:27am

I don’t think so, on CH it’s at most +7, it’d need to be really meaty for it to be able to link super or ultra it seems.

Edit: rainscape beat me to it.

Tooserius · June 13, 2011, 8:35am

Thanks Rainscape. I know the difference between links and cancels, but I was just curious. Already messing with cs.mp cancels into super.
It seems you cant cancel a raw cs.mp into super or ultra. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.

Anything cs.mp would be useful for? Btw 3nigmat1c, thanks for that cr.mk into cs.mp on crouchers. It’s sick.

In that situation it appears I can’t link into jab after hitting a crouching opponent with cs.mp after a cr.mk.

Is it just me or has anyone else tested this out?

3nigmat1c · June 13, 2011, 7:34pm

the medium or heavy links after cr.mk put you at max distance for just about anything, i think the only thing you’ll get out of it is super or a cancel into ex.ru. And that’s if you use cl.hp/cl.mk/cl.hk/cr.mp etc.

Tooserius · June 17, 2011, 3:42am

Hmm.

I know this may sound crazy, but do you guys think there would a way the nerf to hb’s recovery could work to beneficial effect such as baiting?