Throw a couple of repukkens at him, if he blocks it, you can run in and get closer. then you can probably mixup with RR:Shift Shinkuu NageXX Death, I tend to try to take it slowly, Small jump alot, thats the only way you’d prolly be able to leave the ground.
JUst play patiently, dont try to rush in all the time, zone him out, and especially, make him come to you.
If Sagat is getting out of your offensive mixups with d.LK, then that means you need to go for more counter hits. Force the idea into his head that he CAN’T hit you after you’ve already hit him (after close s.LK or d.LK). Once he starts blocking up is the only time your throw mixups are going to work. Try this…
-close s.LK, (opponent now mashing on throw or d.LK because he thinks you’re going to 360 him), counter hit d.MP xx shift, 360
The best of both worlds. You get the counter hit AND the grab when things work smoothly. d.MP is a 3 frame attack so it beats both blockers and mashers. The shift, 360 after that is really hard to react to. I actually don’t even know how to get out myself, without having to resort to jump, when other people do it to me.
i rather not rely on reppukens cuz rock has pretty slow recovery with reppukens. i may use it if they are half screen or farther away. dive kicks beats rock’s c.fierce pretty cleanly 
so stick with s.rh/c.mp
i agree with kcxj. most of sagat’s move aren’t very fast. giving rock lots of opporunity to get counter hits. watch out for sagat’s who will try to DP their way out. see the DP cominig, block it, it’s free combo for you
to get in on sagat. for me…i depend a lot on random elbows, JD sagat’s ground normals, use counters only if the sagat player is getting really predictable
Counter Madness
Random high/medium counters to snuff out any C.HP/S.HP/S.HK spam from Sagat/Cammy.
Against Guile, JD a Sonic Boom and pump a medium counter right after it since a S.HK will be coming after it. It’ll probably work once in the match, but it’s just to let your opponent know that they aren’t getting away with bs like that. Also, low counters snuff out C.MKs after a Sonic Boom if you’re brave enough to challenge Guile’s mixups. Just watch out for dash throws though.
Also, quick question. Do jab/medium elbows go under high Tiger Shots? Could be a good whiff punisher at the right distance.
Sagat’s high tiger shot will hit Rock in his hard edge.
Some things I’ve noticed w/ characters…
c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + hp is a 5 hit combo vs. the whole cast…
for medium size to small characters… c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp
is safe w/ JD (I dunno bout w/o it)
Large char. (Sagat, blanka, Honda, etc.) c.lk, c.lk, c.lk, c.mk xx QCB + lp is safe?
I haven’t had time to test these at the arcades, and my friend is currently borrowin my PS 2, so can someone see if this works? Normally against large characters, i just do 2 c.lk’s but I kno u can be punished after by Sagat. I’m not sure if you can link 3 in a row though. If it does work, it seems like a decent enough string to break guard, and u can easily see on reaction whether to do the elbow w/ fierce or jab.
that combo isn’t practical against the whole cast in cvs2 because it only works at point blank range and sometimes not even then… the qcb fierce is 50 50 as to whether it will be blocked or combo so it’s an impractical combo unless you are looking for counterhits. low forward into jab elbow has a gap in it that can be rolled through, super, or dped, but is usually hard to punish after blcok
It does? I’m sure you can combo it…in fact, against any character, I know you can combo a c mk xx qcb+mp, although sometimes I can’t get the c mk xx qcb+hp, I think that really depends on distance and opponent character’s size.
Sorry, I forgot to put that you have to be at point blank for it… I didn’t mean for it to be a b&b combo but meant to use it as a reference to my block string. and thanks for tellin me that it can be broken out of, i forgot that if it doesnt combo, all those answers work.
gig4ls, i’m pretty sure what ucrollerblader means is that at that range, after 2 or 3 c.lk’s, qcb + lp will not be a combo. so yes, it’s entirely dependent on distance and character size.
so yes, everybody should ignore my earlier post. big big mistake posting that…
another question i hav is, is there anyway to try to punish a tiger raid from sagat? (qcb x 2 + k). someone told me to throw, but i cant even do it if i jam the button b/c i always get tiger uppercutted and i really want the knockdown.
lvl 2 tiger raid has -2 frame advantage, while lvl 3 is -3 i think. lvl 1 tiger raid is -7, which is why most people dont’ use lvl 1’s with sagat(pllus the lack of invicibility). this is why the 50/50 mixup of either tiger uppercut or throw works really well. best thing to do is try to tech a throw, or do a lvl 3 super that’s safe. ( i.e. deadly rave or raging storm).
you can, if you feel lucky, do a high counter right away. i’m not sure what the frame startup is for tiger uppercut, but ii think you can pull it out a counter before tiger uppercut hits.
if i read correctly from kcxj’s thread, counters have 3 frame startup. so that means it’s safe against lvl 3 tiger raid(if you read the DP right). and against lvl 2, it should work since the DP has to have at least 1+ frame startup…
EDIT:
here’s a little thing i experienced. sometimes when sagat does tiger raid, and i’m able to duck under it…AND i’m raged. i try to do shine knuckle right as he passes over me. i don’t seem to be fast enough to catch him before he recovers. has anyone been able to do this?
Yes, many characters can do that. Rock does it easier than most since his super is so fast. I’m 90% sure he can just fierce elbow also if he ducks under it.
And a bit of advice, never try to high counter uppercuts unless you’re just going for style points. If you’re that sure an uppercut is coming, just block it and punish it with a combo. Much more damage at much less risk to yourself.
another thing about the 2 l.shorts, l. mk into hp hardedge is not only do you have to be close, you also have to input the 3 hits before the hp hardedge fast, if you do it a bit slow and even if the 3 hits chain, the hardedge will be blocked.
I think I will agree with Buk, I am also pretty sure that you can chase after the raid.
I was thinking about Rock matchups about a week ago because I was losing against Sagat a lot, and cammy was just destroying me. I came up with the a couple of things, some of which have (kinda) allready been mentioned:
vs Cammy
throw reppukens from half screen and beyond
Her jump isn’t fast enough to get to you if she jumps on reaction. Of course if she anticipates it you’re screwed, but that’s with everything. Punish her reaction. Her slow roll can probably be “shining knuckle’d” easily.
Alpha counter HK ???
Don’t know if this works yet, so I won’t say more. It should though, since s.hk recovers slow and leaves her at -8 normally.
lp.Rising-tackle between pokes
Has pretty good priority and even though it’s anything but safe, it’ll probably work since cammy players may not be used to getting interrupted
max range RC lp.Elbow (the range is almost exactly half a screen)
I can’t say if the invincibility lasts until it hits, but it will cover Rock for part of the start up wich might help go through a s.hk or drill
vs Sagat
s.mp beats Sagat’s cr.hp at certain ranges
The fact that it can beat it out cleanly will probably never come into play, since the range for that to happen is pretty far. However it’s still a good poke he can’t duck under. Safe if rolled through and jumped over. As long as you time it early enough you’ll beat sagat to the punch. Possibly useful vs lowjumps.
Same elbow stuff as against cammy
Reppuken at half screen, again, good option.
Sagat’s jump is miserable for moving forward, however his j.hk will trade with you’re st.rh and cr.hp AA’s a lot. So maybe a Shininkg knuckle when you have it.
A fun fact, you can shining knuckle through tiger shots
They have horrible recovery, should not be a problem from around half screen, any further is risky.
vs Everyone
Counter-hit Setups
S.LK, close S.HP xx QCB+LP
Your opponent seeing right through that 360 grab setup and hitting you back? This should work nicely to make them think twice about it. Pretty safe on block too since the S.LK and the S.HP push you back far enough so that the elbow is hard to punish. You can always JD after it if you’re not feeling safe too if you have it.
C.LK, C.HK
Thanks to Rock’s super duper fast sweep, it’s possible to get a counter hit after this. Since the C.LK wields a +6 on hit/block the 5-frame startup sweep should have no trouble getting in there. It’s also possible to combo it WITHOUT the counter-hit without trying too hard to link it. Sweet.
close S.MP, C.MK xx QCB+LP
Another mixup against the taller characters like Sagat. Like the first setup, pushback is far enough so you won’t get punished.
Ok, forget what I said about Reppukens vs Sagat. His roll is fast and since the recovery on Reppuken sucks, Sagat can roll -> cr.hp and still hit you a lot of the time. So I only think it’s a good option from at LEAST 3/4 screen away.
I also learnt it’s not so smart to cr.hk as your only option after running. It’s like asking to be roll-supered.
Who started the misconception that Rock’s reppukens have super fast recovery anyway? Believe it or not, Ryu’s hadoukens actually have faster startup, less recovery, and shorter total animation time than Rock’s reppukens. This in no way means Rock’s fireball is no good though. The Rock player needs to really know his ranges that’s all.
Practice this with Sagat. Stand exactly at midrange and jump over a reppuken on reaction, j.HK, far s.HP xx high tiger super. Take that all you OTK fanboy nerds. :lol:
I don’t think that any experienced players ever thought that. Some might have gotten that impression seeing Otaku running after them more often than not.
On the other hand, fullscreen reppukens are pretty safe and also pretty badass.
Ok, I’m going to stop pretending I know how to play this game and actually ask a question.
When someone walks up to you and they have a small jump/fast roll and they’re just inside your sweep range… what do you do? I’ve become afraid of getting my sweep attempt beat by one of the two things I just mentioned. So I mix it up with cr.mk xx lp.Elbow, but unfortunately it gets beat just as easily. Right now I’m even considering using st.lk instead just so I can punish the roll and block the smj, afterwards if it connects I just dash back or attack.
When I play Rock I either want to be pressuring during okizeme, throwing out safe elbows or long distance reppukens. But then they get in closer and this is where they can smalljump/roll over/through whatever I do. And just standing there waiting seems like an awefully silly thing to do.
If I don’t feel I can predict their action should I stick to the st.lk? should I maybe start using st.mp more? RC hp.Reppuken?
ive never tried but cant u just f.rising tackle?
hmmm :lol: :lol: i never really thought about just blocking a wakeup uppercut instead of crackcounter i mean i do block but if i feel that someone is gonna wakeup dp then i highcounter and if they dont sometimes they are like stunned and dont punish and i shift
haha, always better to do a combo… either way they’ll be wary of doing uppercuts, then you get supadupa mixups
I am having truoble against A-iori:
the guy waits for me to do a poke; roll, throw or roll into custom.
do a fireball; roll, throw.
i just wait for him to attack; roll, throw or just plain walk up to me and throw or wait for me to attack, roll then throw.
iori’s roll is just way too fast and i can’t defend it on reaction. i can’t get distance because he just rolls up to me until i’m cornered. i guess i’d also have the same problems against any roll groove iori’s but i have never played against anyone decent in c or n.
how do you beat an iori that seems to almost roll on reaction?