Rock Strategies and Match ups

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.

2

vs. cammy- at midrange/fullscreen, reppukens are very good against cammy, especially if she has no low jump. Standing roundhouse and low strong will anti-air all of her jump ins and crossup attempts if done early enough. if she gets in close to you, just block and try to tech anytime she trys to throw you… not wise to push anything until she’s out of range since her standing fierce will always end up in you eating a super.

vs. bison- try not to block scissor kicks since you have slow ass pokes and probably won’t be able to hit him after.

vs. blanka- you can punish blanka balls without super… block high, then do a fierce elbow (qcb fierce), both hits should hit blanka as he lands. you do not have to just defend for this to work. a lot of rock players i’ve played against don’t know this.

if you use k groove- and you’re running around the end of your meter, just make them block something and do deadly rave, stop before the fireblast, and you get a free mixup… either do low shorts, run through 360 grab, standing short into 360 grab, just 360 grab, low jump rh… blah blah blah, lots of possibilities. if they are running low on life, make them block the fireblast at the end of deadly rave and they’ll probably die, the chip damage on that part of the super is ridiculous.

to people first learning rock- if you seen all those crazy videos of corner throw setups, just remember that they are only good if you make them fear getting hit so mixup between throw setups and low shorts into super or the throw setups do nothing for you.

3

If it’s a 2 hit scissor kick, you can actually do a low forward xx super pretty easily. Sweeping Bison isn’t hard either. If it’s a one hit scissor kick however, you can’t really do anything… but neither can most non-Sagat characters in the game, and it’s hard to punish even for him. Just make him block something if you’re in range and go from there.

4

Ahhh, Rolento is driving me nuts. How am I supposed to beat this mofo? My Hibiki gets eaten alive by free jump-ins and my Rock does decent when I can stop the stupid jumpy runaway shit and get some command throw mixups.

5

uh, yeah, shoulda specified one hit… anyways

rolento- hibiki standing fierce should stuff all of rolentos jumpins, correct me if i’m wrong. as far as rock vs. rolento, theres no trick to beating him, just don’t throw reppukens since he can hit you on reaction any time. if he trys to wall jump over you, jump back short or forward usually stops him. it’s hard to mixup rolento on wakeup since he can usually just scouter jump back. if he’s in the corner, get him to block a standing short on wakeup and mixup from there, if he scouter jumps back, do standing roundhouse and then you get a mixup and some damage, you have to train the other rolento not to rc scouter jump away… oh yeah, from midscreen if they rc scouter jump back i think you might be able to shine knuckle him.

vs. hibiki- rc reppuken from out of range is pretty good against her since she outpokes you by far… don’t do it too often though since she has relatively quick jump in combos, use it to bait jumps more than to put on pressure. if you fake a reppuken and she jumps at you, do standing rh xx reppuken. if you suspect she’s looking for reppuken and is going to try to rc slash, then do a high counter. your low jump rh should work well against her if you can get in that range

6

I think Rock’s pokes are mad fast. Four frame d.MK and five frame d.HK. Against big characters, four frame, low risk to whiff far s.MP is useful too. d.MK and d.HK even have far range. I’m actually scared of facing Rock players now, this character is so fast… If I keep my distance, I always have to worry about random running d.HK. Worry about d.HK too much and I get run up command thrown. If I try to walk forward on Rock myself, I always end up eating a bunch of counter hit d.MK’s xx qcb+LP (2 hit combo) for absolutely no reason. :lol:

I saw a Japanese player do d.MK xx super with Ryu after a Bison one-hit scissors before. I was really surprised because I never thought d.MK would ever reach. Turns out at the perfect distance Ryu can hit Bison guaranteed (albeit the timing is ridiculously tight). Rock can do the same thing too. His d.MK has the same fast startup and range as Ryu’s. Although it’s definately not something I would depend on in a real match (like punishing a Blanka ball with reversal qcb+HP… too hard, randomly works, randomly doesn’t), just know you have the option.

7

punishing blanka ball isn’t really that hard, i think you have a few frames to hit him. d. mk, super against a 1 hit scissor kick however is usually a bad idea as you said though since the timing is really sketchy

8

Rock Shinkuu Nage resets and tactics

Simply for the sake of bieng thorough, I’ve decided to go over some of the more common Shinkuu Nage resets in the corner. Some of these are common resets you have probably seen in random Otaku match videos. Corrections might need to be made some of these, feel free to do so.

Rage run shift–>Shinkuu Nage–>Rasetsu, juggle with a late crouching forward–>Rage Run shift–>Shinkuu Nage.

Popular Otaku reset. Fairly fast, difficult to react to. It’s biggest problem however is that there is no optional mix up or variation to beat an opponents counter to this reset. After your opponent sees the reset after 2-3 times it can be reacted to and beaten in the same way every time. When combined with other resets however you can extend it’s life time slightly.

Rage run shift–>Shinkuu Nage–>Rasetsu, juggle with a early crouching strong–>Fierce Reppu Ken

Another random Otaku reset. When timed correctly(low strong hits as early as possible while still bieng cancelable) your opponent lands on the fierce Reppu Ken somewhat late, making it possible to get a slight amount of frame advantage after it. The maximum amount of advantage I’ve been able to get out of this situation is +3 I believe, as I was able to link a close standing forward after it on large crouching characters, although it was very difficult. The amount of advantage seems to vary greatly depending on how early you juggle with crouching strong. After the Reppu Ken is blocked you can ether Shinkuu Nage right where your standing or counter hit low jab linked into low roundhouse. For low jab to be affective in this situation however your opponent must land on the reppu ken as late as possible, otherwise Chun li or Bison can counter this with their own low jabs rather easily. Unfortunately, after you land your opponent is somewhat out of range for Rock’s faster normals against most characters(They will hit some larger crouching characters, but who cares), like close standing short or forward and crouching strong. This makes your options limited as far as what you can do in this situation, which is why I think I often see Otaku go for forward or roundhouse Crack counter in this situation to beat counter throw attempts, which is rather risky. Honestly probably one of the worst variations at your disposal. If anyone has anything to add to this that might make it better feel free to mention something.

Rage run shift–>Shinkuu Nage–>Rasetsu, juggle with a early crouching strong–>Rage Run Save

Simplistic set up with a variety of variations. Rage Run Save moves you directly next to your opponent and recovers just before your opponent touches the ground, puting your opponent into a 50/50 situation. Your free to go for any standard mix up pattern, verifiable meaty crouching short linked into standing fierce–>jab Hard Edge(cancel fierce into a strong Reppu Ken if blocked), Rage Run shift–>Shinkuu Nage again, Shinkuu Nage, block for a sec–>fierce throw, or instant low jump roundhouse.

Against mid weights and larger characters you can switch out low short–>standing fierce–> jab Hard Edge for crouching short x 2, low forward–>fierce Hard Edge, which is a lot more flexible. If crouching short x 2 is blocked you can vary up with run up Shinkuu Nage, short run up counter hit low jab linked into low forward–>jab Hard Edge, or a hesitated crouching roundhouse.

Also note that instant low jump roundhouse is generally not very safe, hit or miss your opponent can combo or throw you as you land from it. Most players will react to it slowly the first time they see it however, in which case you can cancel your low jump recovery as you land into a Rage Run Shift–>Shinkuu Nage if they try to throw you when it’s already too late to do so. Use with caution, mostly as a round ender when your opponents life is low.

Rage run shift–>Shinkuu Nage–>Rasetsu, juggle with a semi late standing jab

After the standing jab you can run or walk up and do any standard mix up pattern. This variation is slightly more flexible then other variations however simply because you recover faster and have more time to safely do other types of patterns. Run up crouching short/combo, Shinkuu Nage, Rage Run shift–>Shinkuu Nage again, block for a sec–>fierce throw, or instant low jump roundhouse are all ok patterns. You can also cancel the standing jab into a Rage Run Dunk, which will hit just as your opponent lands, which is somewhat convincing in running grooves as you need to run into range after standing jab for certain combos. Some players use the extra set up time you do a semi late low jump roundhouse, then as they land ether cancel the recovery into Rage Run Shift–>Shinkuu Nage to beat a throw attempt or land and go strait into a Shinkuu Nage if they just sit and block.

9

I’m gonna steal these if you don’t mind. BULLRUSH!!!

10

When exactly do you cancel the laser in the Rock trap so that you can input a S.LP or C.MK right after it? I’m having some trouble with it.

Oh, and I discovered some new stuff on fighting Rolento today. If you can anticipate a knife, do an early J.LK to smack him out of it. Since it doesn’t knockdown and sends them floating, a mixup to add after it is a low counter. Works probably once in a blue moon, but good to know incase you ever come across a sitation like it. And if Rolento likes running away when you’re raged, punish them for it by baiting them to wall-bounce away from you and Rasing Storm it. Conversely, if they jump off the wall and fall straight down or just jump straight up to avoid a reppuken, Shining Knuckle them as they fall. Much more common than someone wall-bouncing right into you.

11

Lol, not in the least. BULLRUSH 4 LIFE

12

For those Rock setups, yeah you need to be sure they are confused already or already fearing you, cause I have done some of those setups before, and half the time if they just button mash a low jab or short will smack you out of the trap.

That said, I think my favorite trap is probably, shinku, blast, into low strong, shift, and shift again…

The first shift glitches and puts you infront of them kinda confusing…actually from here you can choose to shift again or go for a throw attemp…

and against non k and p grooves (well even again them…) stupid and old trap but it works… mid screen or farther, just spam fireball until and if you see a jump, then super them with shine knuckle.

360 throw setup
Most common is walk up standing short into 360. This works well again people that dont play rock a lot, but others will see a throw setup. This can be easily varied.
1.) Stand lk, instead of 360, do low lk, low mk into fireball or hardedge. If they try to counter the throw attemp, the low lk will counter hit, gives you free combo into low mk into elbow.
2.) This I believe I saw this from OTK…standing lk, the down strong into fireball or elbow…
3.) Low lk into 360 throw
4.) Low lk, stand lk into 360 (I believe both hits need to be blocked)
5.) Low jump hk, land and wait slightly, 360
6.) After blocked Jab Elbow. This is pure distance game. At the right distance, you recover with enough time and range to 360 throw. The best setup I can come up with is low lk, low lp, low mk into jab elbow, then 360. Timing is freaking weird, got it out only once or twice in real play. For me this is like an luck attempt, I don’t do it too much because the timing is weird and I just can’t get it down.

Anti Airs, standing RH for far
Low strong for close
After Low strong you can try to elbow to get close or fireball…basically setup pressure game, or just walk forward slightly to bait for a whiff or blocked super.

One last but randomly useful move is far standing fierce. LOL, this move has helped me out a few times, it’s slow and bad range, but sometime you can use it to punish whiffs and this links to super…far away standing fierce into deadly rave…

BTW, I’ve read some where you can SJ HK blocked blanka ball?

13

Just let go of the laser slightly early so that it hits meaty. It’s pretty easy with like 2 minutes of practice.

Here’s my favorite Rock reset:

teleport into corner, grab, laser, low strong, overhead low jump roundhouse, teleport into corner, grab again…

fun!

14

i’m pretty sure this has been asked before but could someone give me some quick strategies against solid C and K sagats. thanks guys. btw, so OTK really is coming to evo right?

15

thanks to all the OTK vids, s.short has become a sign for the 360. don’t forget to use mid/low counters on certain characters after the s.short.(i.e. against chunli there’s a good chance that she might do c.jab after you do a s.short.)

16

That’s why you do counter hit d.LK, d.HK (2 hit combo) or counter hit d.LK, d.MK xx deadly rave as well. Just because s.LK is something that’s being used all over the place doesn’t mean it still doesn’t work.

Block against the opponents who try to super or dp you after the close s.LK too.

17

Since nobody’s mentioned it yet, here’s the single most abusable thing with Rock:

Throw out a lot of jab/strong elbows.

It’s relatively fast, has monster priority, hard to jump over and knocks down on hit. With the knockdown you can then set up all that Rage Run or Shinkuu Nage trickery that everybody loves so much.

Here’s the most important part: if the elbow is blocked, tap down/back to JD after. As some of you might have read in an old post of mine, if you’re in the recovery of a move you’re allowed to JD (or parry) one frame before you can block. This makes even badly spaced elbows very difficult to punish. Rock is usually at around low forward range after a blocked elbow, so if your opponent throws one of those out it’s pretty much a free JD. Rock can punish most JDed low forwards in the game with a sweep (into mix up) or low forward xx super. This makes your opponents hesitant to attack after blocking an elbow, which gives you a chance to get in and do something… like more elbows.

18

what do you guys do against A-sak whoring dive kicks. the move seems pretty safe when i JD it. high counters work once in a while, but if they whiff the dive kick, it’s a free shot at me when i whiff my counter(if they have decent reaction). at best my AA normals trade hits with the dive kick. diive often beats a head on collision with elbow dash. usually i’ll go for j.short to cleaning hit her out of it, but i’d have to predict the dive kick for j.short to work.

anything rock has that can beat out sak’s moves?

19

Hmm, Whoring Dive Kicks?

You can AA with s.HK and trade hits, but you said that already.

You can always throw a repukken when you expect the dive kick, so you can force them to jump/roll when they dont want to, (when they land from the Dive Kick) When they jump, they can Dive kick again, but The only thing I can think of is to trade with AA (s.RH or c.strong)

20

Can someone help me w/ how to beat Sagat? His c.lk is so dam annoying, i dunno what to do about it. I can’t jump in because of Tiger uppercut, and running in to poke/shinkuu nage doesnt work cause he outranges me. My only hope it seems is to JD all 4/5 hits of the tiger uppercut, which i mess up on 90% of the time. Sometimes I can get the knockdown and then mixup him to death, but he usually gets out of it w/ the c.lk.

I tried to start counterin more of his pokes, but is there a more reliable answer?