what, you cant get good at the game yourself? you have to put justin wong in your place to do it for you? why cant you get good enough to announce SRK takeover or some gay retarded bullshit? come on step up you pussy.
also, once you are done sucking justin’s wong, could I have a turn? youve been at it for a while there I can tell, its only fair that you share.
lol jwong
See any Kirby players UltraDavid? Theres not enough people playing him.
Woah there guy, relax 
Take a breather or something~
Dios Mio! One has to wonder how SF4 will be treated with all this post-Brawl hubbub…
Maybe it’ll be the reverse and all the smashboarders will be trying to break it. Advanced techniques like ‘double-sticking’ and ‘player-grabbing’ will soon replace super motions and throws.
My friend BigAzn played him and so did I. Other than that, as far as actual Smash players go, I don’t think I saw him.
if sf4 is a dumbed down street fighter ill come to this forum and insist its better than 3s for tournaments.
3s is a dumbed down street fighter too so what difference would it make? :looney:
Thank you Captain Obvious.
You’re going with the ‘close but no cigar’ angle for your argument ? Good one guy.
ergo close but no cigar.
A few points I’d like to make, after observing this and other Smash threads here on SRK…
First of all, it’s obvious that the gameplay of Brawl meshes much more with what SRKers are used to and expect out of fighting games than Melee ever did. This is apparent in the large amount of interest here on SRK both before Brawl was released and now that it has been. A heavier emphasis of spacing and more a more traditional gameplay bent (simpler movement, less apparant significance of the edge tactics which made Melee so different from most fighters, etc.) seem to account for this. This is, at the same time, a lot different from melee, and what the melee community expected out of Brawl. This has caused a lot of grief on both sides, with SRKers deeming “the smash community’s” opinions as childish, shortsighted, and stemming from wrong assumptions about what makes a good game, while the melee community is often frustrated at SRKers close-mindedness to their history and arguments, even when articulated clearly.
Just to throw out some examples from this thread, Felix45’s post are quite aggravating when he discussed how many SRKers were turned off from Melee by the feeling that excessive technicality could allow a really smart player to lose to a (relatively) stupid player, and that much of the stuff was totally “safe,” preventing the smart player from being able to use his intelligence to his advantage sufficiently. Now, there’s some merit here. It’s true that, well, someone like SilentWolf (super technical Melee player) could probably stomp all over Justin Wong at Melee if JW didn’t know much of the technical stuff, even if SW is a dumber player. What he is neglecting, though, is that just as in any fighter, you need both technical skills and intelligence. How much each counts for depends on the game. In Melee, however, he’s wrong that tech skill is as dominant as he makes it out to be. Look at the top players, and some of them aren’t excessively technical (PC Chris), and even play inherently non-technical characters (puff, for instance, look at Mango). Are they extremely competent technically still? Sure… but that’s not why they win. They win because they play really really smart, and are masters of spacing.
Yes there are basic hurdles, as he mentions, like L-cancelling. Was L-cancelling, all things considered fairly, a pretty stupid mechanic? Sure. You always wanted to do it, it was just an extra button push that always halved lag. They simply could have reduced all lag on all moves by half, and remove the button push, for the same balance but less unnecessary technicality. It was though still not all that hard, and using that as an excuse not to enjoy the melee game is silly. Every fighting game has quirks you have to learn, and the basic tech skills you needed in Melee to really get started on a competitive basis were not that difficult or intimidating. Using them effectively (that is, intelligently) was the hard part. SRKers damning Melee as a competitive game due to perceived technicality overwhelming intelligent play thus rightfully get Melee players up in arms. Similar things that annoy Melee players are SRKers saying that Melee didn’t have any emphasis on spacing, that it was all rushdown. This is clearly false, just watch any good player, and especially Marths, Sheiks, Puffs. Also that melee was totally dominated by 3 characters–it wasn’t. Marth, Shiek, Puff, Fox, Falco, ICs, CF, Peach, [Samus] all see pretty heavy tourny play, including at the highest levels.
At the same time, SRKers get really annoyed when you have some Melee player who comes in and starts talking about how bad Brawl is because it lacks L-canceling, or the slower pace, or what have you. This is also totally justified. Some techniques like L-canceling were in fact really stupid, and Melee players should admit that. A slower game doesn’t necessarily mean a worse game. Even a removal of available options doesn’t necessarily make a game worse, as is often waved about by Melee players. One needs merely to look at, as mentioned, parrying in 3S to see that. Increased options can often have the effect of being unbalanced in some way, or otherwise upsetting core gameplay. In the case of 3S, you have the issue of projectiles, a core spacing, timing, and control aspect of SF, being rendered basically worthless due to parrying (amongst other arguable issues with parrying as well). Most would argue that this hurt the game tremendously, due to its effect on gameplay, despite the fact it was an additional option/technique available to the players.
So, I’d like to beseach everyone of several things. First of all, Melee players, please think about what you are saying before you say it. Also recognize you are on the forums of a community which has been traditionally separate from your own, but that is very intelligent and experienced. Be respectful, don’t flame, try to articulate your opinions clearly, and think about the reasoning behind them. Try to step back from the Melee mold, and consider what made it a great game, and what didn’t, and how things have changed for the better (and worse) with Brawl. Second of all, SRKers, please try to ignore you preconceived notions that Smash players are uniformly ill-informed scrubs. The history of Melee is very long, with a lot of conflict amongst very smart, skilled players and organizers about how to adapt the game best to a competitive environment. I know you don’t always agree with how it was done, but at least recognize that there is a lot of competency out there in the Smash community as well. Also, try to understand that the reasons why a lot of Melee players are annoyed at Brawl do have a lot of merit; in the end it may turn out that Brawl is a better game (several Melee players think so already), and it may not, but either way there are a lot of legitimate complaints that can be made about Brawl. Please don’t dismiss them all out of hand.
Finally, exaggeration on both sides is annoying. JW is a great player of many fighting games. Him being able to pick up a new one and already do pretty well is not surprising. At the same time, just how well he did is being very much exaggerated, as pointed out (the only player at the tournament who could be said to be that great beat him, and that player pales on a national level). Furthermore, Brawl is so different that a lot of the experience Melee players have over JW is rendered mostly moot. This isn’t about how individual players are handling the new game. It doesn’t really matter, does it? This shouldn’t be about SRKers trying to “prove” how much better they are as a community by beating traditional smash players, nor the reverse. (e.g. Stop bringing up Azen too, ok? He’s good, JW is good, we get it). This is about playing a game. And, if that game lives up to competitive standards and gets widely played and loved, the two communities will inevitably start to become closer. This isn’t a competition between cliques. That’s juvenile. This is about exploring and competing in a fun game.
Anyways, that’s it for now. Play nicely, everyone! At some point I may try to describe more articulately than I’ve seen so far about why many Melee players are negative about many of the changes that happened in Brawl, and why their justifications are often very reasonable. While this isn’t to say the game can’t or won’t be amazing in its own right, it’s completely fair to critique various changes that happened. Knee-jerk reactions that are happening on both sides are non-productive.
Good post.
Actually, I think the reason that so many SRKers are picking up brawl has very little to do with the actual game mechanics: after all, we were hype BEFORE anybody has ever gotten their hands on it.
I think this can be attributed to 2 major reasons:
Timing. There is a gap right now in new games coming out, and this one is truly different than anything we’re currently playing. This alone means that people have plenty of time to dedicate to playing a new game, and Brawl fits that need perfectly.
Online play. The ability to jump online, and play matches with people from the boards all over the country while chatting it up on IRC is god mode. It really pushes the game into something we can play a reasonably high levels, from our personal living rooms, at nearly any time we want. That right there is something that really has us interested.
Now that we have it, we want to play and enjoy it.
The reason that we don’t get the logic of many Smashboarders is because there isn’t typically a whole lot of logic behind it, it’s a lot of times simply “The backroom knows best” or “Ask PC Chris” or something along that lines. Here, if you make a statement, we want to understand the REASONING behind that statement. Having a heart spawn mid jumpkick randomly breaks the game? It definitely could be something gamebreaking. Having a Mr Saturn spawn mid jumpkick into your hands gamebreaking? Hardly.
The biggest rift comes in that most people here are set on the idea that items should start all on, then be turned off as they are shown to clearly break the game. Melee players are dead set that “nothing has changed” and that all items should start off, then be turned on later if found out to be ok (if at all). Theres nothing that’s going to change either sides opinion. An anti-items player will see somebody get a KO with a dragoon, and proclaim it broken – a pro-testing player will say that it was dodgeable, and that it brings a new layer to the game. An anti-items player will see somebody get 2 stocked with a smashball, and say there is proof that smashballs break the game – a pro-testing player will say that, again, no reasonable player should have lost 2 stocks, and the person who did only did so because they made a mistake, and was punished. An anti-items player will say that an assist trophy killed their opponents for them, which reduces player skill and interaction – a pro-testing player will say that the fight begun when the trophy spawned, and not when it was opened, and that the assist that it spawned was dodgeable by the player, whom only made a mistake and was punished. Conversely, a pro-testing player will point out that an exploding box that spawns on an opponent caught in a curry flame only came from the advantage that the player gained from gaining the curry in the first place, while an anti-items player will contend that the player who died did so randomly without any forethought or planning by the attacking player. The debate is seemingly at a stalemate.
Theres no more theory to discuss, it’s all been laid out, what we need now are results through running items on tourneys, which some have taken the initiative to do.
Also I don’t see much of a problem with having a rivalry, it just promotes more competition. Just like there has always been an EC vs WC rivalry, as long as both people can channel the rivarly into something constructive in the game.
Tournament results aren’t going to prove anything - people still play poker competitively. If you guys want poker, that’s fine. I’d rather play smash.
alphazealot: are there any public threads on SWF that are undergoing debates similar to the ones started here on SRK? It’s hard for my tool-like mind to wade through all the nonsense threads to see the meat-and-potatoes of the SWF community. I’m sure there are a few other Smashboarders that haven’t made their way over here and I’d like to read if they had any other input regarding SRK’s “breaking” of Brawl. PMing or posting it here would be awesome.
Thanks.
At what point of removing so much from the game, can you still refer to it as the original game?
If “removed stuff from original game” > “original game”, the question doesn’t matter.
You also can’t accurately define the “original game” since so much of it is already automatically being removed without being tested in the tournament scene.
I’m sorry if it’s not, but your video sounds so fabricated that I can’t find it credible. Hell even the players (it might even be you) sound like they’re reading a script.
lol wow you are retarded