RENOCREW 2011 (Northern Nevada's Fightin Game Scene)

Darrik the only concern I have with that is having the lower ranked matches mean absolutely nothing. While it is nice to try to level up people so you can rank up later, at the time you’re basically playing a match for nothing. And there are kind of major consequences for losing. Who would want to do that? Not to mention that lower ranked player might be a top player starting out his secondary at the lower rank.

So my concern is that it might encourage top ranked people not to play against much lower ranked people because they have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Other than that though it sounds great.

Also I think, especially on a casual station, people would be willing to give out quick lessons and/or pointers. Please do not be shy about asking for help if you want it.

Valid points Scamp, and all I can say is that only a very selfish or unconfident player would refuse to play a lower ranked player for fear of losing. Even if the higher dan loses, he only has to win his next match to reset to zero. He can either accept another challenge from a lower rank and win to reset, or win against someone of his skill level (within 3 dan) to reset. If the top player does lose, then he SHOULD question himself and how he played. And if a top player gets to the top and refuses lower rank challenges, and has no peers in his skill level, or can’t beat the others within his skill level consistently, then he won’t go any further up himself. He’s holding himself back by not testing himself against all opponents, or creating stronger ones for himself. Yes, we can all be randomed out unexpectedly by a low level player, but if we let that win, then who was outplayed? The strong player will adapt, find the gaps, then punish hard.

Trying to address all points, apologies, what else? Ah yes, the high dan doesn’t have as much to lose as you might think. The system is based off of ability, if they are -1, lose a challenge to a low dan and derank, then perhaps that dan is more fitting to them, if its not, then they can quickly rise up to their previous dan by taking on the players that previously would have given them nothing for winning. Dan regained. As for high ranks starting out secondaries, the double gain system will help them climb to the appropriate dan more quickly then going up the ranks easily. And because of the rotation (winner stays, loser off), low dans can’t abuse the double gain system by constantly playing the same high player because that opponent will be gone after the loss. Again, it only takes a shift in momentum to reset to 0, so both losses and wins by skill gap challenges can be reset by the next win/loss. In the case a player ranks up because of the +2, they’ll rotate off for the rank up, again preventing abuse of the system. It will still take time, just be faster than normal.

I’m of the opinion that a high rank player should neither underestimate their competition, nor shy away from them. If they’re fearful of losing their rank, then perhaps that’s not the rank they should be at. And that would show when other players catch up to them and beat them consistently. If the high dan isn’t keeping up with how the low dan players grow, then they’ll just rank him down when they catch up to him anyway.

But perhaps if the price seems too steep, maybe set it to a double gain/normal loss for the skill gap offset? It would still impose a penalty for losing to a lower rank opponent, but not a terrible one. Remember, the skill gap is 3 dan, that’s a lot, otherwise the win/loss is normal. If a high rank is going to duck matches from low ranks out of fear of losing their rank, or wanting to keep their high rank out of pride, then is that where they deserve to be? If their ability is what they think it is, if their rank is as good as they are, there’s nothing to fear and no reason to refuse. Just my take.

Like Scamp said, if anyone wants to give out pointers or ask for advice, do it. We all want to level up, and we can only do that by growing stronger through fighting each other. If ANYONE wants to learn how to beat me, exploit my weaknesses, or spot my tricks and oki’s, just ask me (or jose, or koogy, or martin, or danny, or chef, or reaver, or truffle, or scamp… you get the point). I’m not gonna get better defensively unless you ARE exploiting my weaknesses, and I’m not gonna get better offensively or more creative with my mixups unless you learn how to shut me out. I noticed last night that I have a very predictable pattern at point blank, but truffle was the only one taking advantage of it. Let’s change that, I wanna get better, not just keep doing the same poke poke poke combo, but if it keeps working, I’m gonna keep doing it. :slight_smile:

TL;DR? :Shame on high ranks for ducking lower level players! Be a man and back that rank up! Or get your ass handed to you when they catch up, your choice. Still worried? Okay then, maybe a +2/-1 system instead. Ask me how to beat me, I’ll tell you, so should anyone else. :slight_smile:

I just don’t see the point in playing anyone under you regardless of what kind of challenge they are giving because. If I’m the top and the only thing I could do is lose points why would I play a player that is farther down than me? I just don’t see an incentive to play anyone under 3 ranks than you at all.

hm makes sense and understandable. i think and agree to do this too derrickson. otherwise people that are obviously good at their game are gonna have a huge gap over the other players imo. well not in the exact way you have said but around that guidelines. such as needing to win more if necessary against lower rank players, or a high rank only needing one more to rank up and lose to a really low rank should drop to zero or maybe a minus, i dont know, just thinking out loud.

well if anything it should be written in paper/computer once its done in stone, this is where koogy comes in. also i think once you pass the first 10 dans i think when you are in a special rank/title the winner should have to win more such as 5 to rank up. idk just a thought :3

A match is a match, is a match. Remember, arcade style rules. You might lose two points, which is unlikely if you really are the top, but if you win, you get the machine and can start your streak to your next rank up. There’s your incentive. That’s a good reason to accept challenges right there, if a lower rank player challenges you, and you win, congrats, you just cut the line, that’s more time on the machine for you. Now if the rest of the line is all lower ranks as well, then you’re right, there’s not much in it for you until someone comes within 3 dan. If you’re the top and you’re out of competition, are you going to train the low up and create some? Or just be a jerk and whine about how you’re so much better than everyone its not worth playing them? C’mon, how important is rank? If you lose to a bunch of low levels and derank as a result, then you’re back to competing against competition thats at your level, how is that not fair? If you’re really top, you won’t lose, you won’t derank, and your time can be better spent giving advice and training some competition for yourself. Cause any player interested in getting better will learn something from even the worst thrashings.

Just a stupid example, koogs can trash my vega with his rufus, but because of all the beatings I took, I learned that there’s a gap after a blocked GT that I can slip a c.lk into ex fba into, and use that to get him the hell off me and reset the spacing, and sometimes that’s all you need. But I never would have learned that if he never put the pressure on me, I would’ve just kept trying to bait and punish dive kicks, and the gotten effed up once he did get in. Okay, I’m going to bed, you guys keep talking it out, or come up with a different system, it doesn’t HAVE to be this way, it was just my initial ideas. :slight_smile:

I think there should be some kind of change because I thought i would be able to rank up this weekend at least once. I really like the idea of no punishment from losing to higher players beating lower players. I like playing against better people, call me wierd but i have fun losing, but repaetedly geting beaten by cbk and Darrikson kept me in baby dan.

Btw would anyone mind helping with counter hitting and option selecting. I mean i understand how they both work and stuff its just, I have trouble actually using them. Im free anytime in the week and am willing to drive anywhere around town. Im of coarse reading a bunch but i can never really apply them in games and i want to work on that.

Scamp: Monitor is an ASUS VH222H. On NewEgg, it goes for about $175 with shipping.

The Danisen system wasn’t exactly made for small groups. The official website has about 150+ players in Japan, some having multiple characters. We are working right around 10% of that, and their system may not work for Americans. The hardest part is going to be the higher ranks. The DAN ranks, I’m not too worried about. Good players are going to excel and jump up the rankings. Lower level players are going to flounder a bit, but that is just more incentive for them to practice.

The issue is, do you help the lower level players artificially go up the ranks? Does it provide them with anything, other than an ego boost? If Scamp starts a Bang card, and gets trounced nonstop, there are probably reasons for this. To give him 2x points against a higher rank would artificially boost his player card up, whereas the other better players probably didn’t get that same point advantage. And ultimately, this is about getting people into practicing and ranking up. Giving them unique titles and cards based on their performance. Having a clear view of who is progressing, and who is having issues.

Good players will win more than lower level players. Gaming a system that is meant to give you some incentive to practice and have fun seems boring. Go learn a better Blackjack method and game a casino, don’t get all defensive over your rank and stop playing because you’re an imaginary 10th Dan.

Okay. I spent some time thinking about this, and here are my proposed changes.


BROKENTIER DANISEN                 	                  SPECIAL RULES
          	   UP 	         DOWN  POINTS
     1ST DAN	3 POINTS	  N/A   1	MAY CHANGE MAIN IF NOT ADVANCED
     2ND DAN	3 POINTS	3 LOSS	1	CANNOT CHANGE MAIN CHARACTER 
     3RD DAN	3 POINTS	3 LOSS	1	
     4TH DAN	6 POINTS	3 LOSS	2	
     5TH DAN	6 POINTS	3 LOSS	2	
     6TH DAN    6 POINTS	3 LOSS	2	
     7TH DAN    9 POINTS	3 LOSS	3	 
     8TH DAN    9 POINTS	3 LOSS	3	
     9TH DAN	9 POINTS	3 LOSS	3	
    10TH DAN	9 POINTS	3 LOSS	3	
     BRAWLER	30 POINTS	3 LOSS	6	
  APPRENTICE	30 POINTS	3 LOSS	6	
      NOVICE	30 POINTS	3 LOSS	6	
      MASTER	30 POINTS	3 LOSS	6	
    CHAMPION	30 POINTS	3 LOSS	6	

Basic way of looking at it: If you are a 1st Dan, you are worth one point. If any other rank beats you, they get 1 point, you get one loss.

If a 1st Dan beats a “Brawler”, they instantly go up 2 ranks, and the Brawler gets one loss.

If a 10th Dan beats a Brawler, he gets 6 out of 9 points instantly, which will almost net them a promotion.

If you stay within your rank, i.e; a 7th Dan fights a 10th Dan, he will only have to win 3 times. If he fights lower level, it will require more wins. If you are at a special ranking, it will be very hard to level up, you will literally have to win nonstop to keep it and continue ranking up.

Does this seem fair to everyone? This solves the dilemma of higher ranking players never being able to play lower ranking players, while still encouraging everyone to win nonstop, and not lose.

**Here is a match-up chart that will show you (across) how many you have to win if you play vs. that rank, to level up. **


	1~3	4~6	7~10	custom
1~3	3	1.5	1	0.5
4~6	6	3	2	1
7~10	9	4.5	3	1.5
custom	30	15	10	5

my brain exploded. and im still here haha.

sounds like promotion idea seems good, not sure until being tried of course but dont forget paul people WILL demote regardless if they are happy about it or not, so no need to sugar coat it just cause they lost 3 or how many points, etc. not saying you will but some reno players need their training wheels off and actually fall down a few times until they can achieve.

also people actually need to spare their own time in the game instead of having their hands held and being told everything, im not saying we or myself wont give you tips but if its becoming obvious that some of you guys arent “studying” is what i would say, and i know some of you (wont say names) in several times just show up and learn from the get together only which i think is of inconvenience not only for the player who is neglecting to play cause for example it wont stick in their mind, requires muscle memory, learning execution, spacing moves, etc all that which i just mention requires time, its not exactly something another player/friend can help you out on unless you try or i should say “DO” at home.

remember everyone, we have the forums, videos, shoot even phones to even just text somebody who might know how to push you in the right direction of becoming better at a game, trust me good practice regardless of how it can sometimes get dry, will be much more satisfying when you start to win much much more :]]]

sorry guys for the rambling, just thought i put my 2 cents in. thanks for taking the time to read this.

Of course they’ll be demoted. However, it will be fair across the board. 3 losses, no matter who you play against, and you are demoted. 1st Dan cannot be demoted, as they are the lowest level. Other than that, it is still a fairly simple system. I need to make a new player card if we decide to go this route, however.

So if a 10th Dan were to play a Brawler and win, then play a 4th Dan, win, and then play a 5th Dan and win, does that extra point transfer to the next rank up or does it restart at 0 again?

Not 100% sure at this point, to be honest. You guys tell me what you think~

Also, JC is hosting a fight night at his house tonight so you guys can get more practice. Starts around 6pm, please send me a PM if you’re interested in going.

Also, JC is hosting a fight night at his house tonight so you guys can get more practice. Starts around 6pm, please send me a PM if you’re interested in going.

I really like this idea of giving incentive for the lower Dans to challenge themselves while the higher Dans don’t really have a terrible penalty to worry about. Personally, I don’t mind the idea of transferring the points since you earned them.

But at the same time, I can also see where CBK is coming from in terms of incentive for those higher up player to play the low ranks because there’s little to gain at that point. Though if the 1st Dans take games from the higher ups and rank up quickly, then it sort of solves the problem since they become worth more.

I think it’s fair on paper! I can’t wait to try it out. But if we do switch methods, does everyone start over from 1st Dan again, or should we keep our current ranks?

If Martin steps up and wants to play on the Danisen, he has to play until he loses. He can’t pick and choose who he plays.

hey koogy i want to go to jc’s house please pick me up around 6 :]]]] thanks

ya, you shouldnt pick you who want to play. thats how greedy people get huge rank gaps over someone who is bad :OO!!!

edit: koogy call me with your house phone dammit i want to speak to you as well. :open_mouth:
775 443 9788

i need some info from you

I’m only available after ten tonight, but if its still goin on, I’d love to attend! Someone text me later and let me know. 7753787734

Alright, had some thoughts on your system koogs. Does the point system work by accumlation, or momentum? Say I’m a 7th dan with 8 points, a custom dan gets on the machine and deals me a loss. That’s one loss, but am I still at 8 points? Will my next win result in a rank up?

Also, the three loss composition is still weighted more towards the higher players. What’s to stop a custom dan from getting into rotation, and single handedly sending everyone back to baby dan? That seems it would still be a problem to me, especially with jose, martin, or danny involved.

Yes, if you get 8 points, and you lose once, you keep the points.

I’m not sure how to solve for good players playing, and lower level players losing.