You don’t know how stupid those last two posts made me feel. I always thought safe jumps were with j. mk. No wonder my jump ins never really worked.
Jump short really does wonders, but the timing is somewhat tight (as with all safe jumps). It’s especially satisfying when you land the 5-hit combo against Sagat.
The timing for Boxer’s jump-ins is very, very important, along with lining up your jump-in distance. Too close, for example, and a jump-short will probably lose to Sagat’s uppercut even when the timing was good. Incidentally, against Sagat I like to mix it up with a jump-in fierce -> cr. strong -> short rush blockstring on wakeup.
I have questions about the Boxer vs. Honda matchup. So after a blocked headbutt what do you guys do? I used to always go for a low rush (not reversal) but I recently came across a player that would cover himself with cr. jab, which stops my rush. My questions are 1) what do you guys do after a blocked headbutt? 2) Does a reversal low rush beat or trade with Honda’s low jab?
Both Boxer and Fatman players feel free to chime in.
I’m pretty sure Honda doesn’t have enough time to cr.:lp: if you time your rush early enough. I always blocked the rush because I felt like it was impossible to jab the rush in time. (I tried a lot!)
I’m pretty sure it’s dependent on how far away both of the characters are and how fast Rog gets his low rush off. I’m also pretty sure Honda could sneaky bait that retaliation into a negative edge ochio.
Maybe – I’ll have to give that a shot.
Sorry for the lack of updates. School sucks. Hopefully things will be better next semester if not next year.
Bumping this thread with cross-up info…in case you didn’t know…
Cross-ups:
Jumping fierce/roundhouse: (Standing) Works on everyone (though extremely difficult on Claw), but not deep enough to follow up on Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Zangief, Guile, Dee Jay, Boxer, Sagat; (Crouching) Works on everyone.
Most reliable cross-up: Jumping fierce and jumping roundhouse. (Both moves have the same hit box, so both work equally well.)
I’ve just recently picked up Boxer(I call him Tyson), and I have been following this guide. I just want to say good job and thanks. It’s been helping me wonders. Now I am facing the every same problems most of you are having. I decided that I’m gonna share my strengths and weaknesses with everyone so that they can relate, get help, and help me with. So get ready for a long read if you dare, and I respect any criticism(don’t know if that’s how you spell it, but I’m a Street Fighter player, not a rock scientist. That’s right, I said rock scientist.)
Matchups
Ryu: This match is a battle of patience for me. Usually I go for the rush from the start. The bad Ryu’s usually just get me brutally beating them down. Some will get a lucky Reversal DP on me, but I usually get back on them. I combo most with cr. mp, cr. mp, low rush. Then on their wakeup, I usually use my TAP(kicks) for the chip or hit. I honestly use it to get my meter built up. Then just keep rushing, ticks included. But the good Ryu’s, they FB trap me all the time. I see myself LP Headbutting through the fast ones, to slowly build my meter up. I still have TAP(kicks) charged. The slow ones, i like to jump HP through only because Ryu has a faster recovery and so the jumping HP gives me enough recovery time to deal with his next moves. I’ll find myself doing this 76% of the match with a good Ryu. Some will lose patience and jump in at you.(That is the best thing to happen to you). Some will slip and you can go in for the dash, depending on where i’m positioned on the screen, the button of the dash i go for varies. I honestly think that once you get past his fireballs, he’s pretty much easy to kill, unless he pulls off insane reversals. If so, I usually just wait and bait next to him and then go for the low rush. The most dangerous thing that I usually fall for is usually after a headbutt through a FB, Ryu will walk and grab due to him seeing me charge in a downward position, or usually a jumping HK to grab. My best counter for this is to poke him with cr. mp. Most the time it stops that from happening. Match is usually 6-4 Balrog for me.
E.Honda: Honda for me is tough as nails. I basically zone all Hondas out. I rarely go for the rush. I basically poke and zone with cr. mp. It does stop all torpedos and HHS if timed right. Thankfully it doesn’t have to be 100% accurate on the timing. I tend to spam it a bit 
But, I can’t stop all the torpedos, so usually when i happen to block one, I go for the reversal low rush LP version. At best I get the chip damage, but usually If I don’t get a reversal, the Honda will just use I think a standing LP and usually stops me. Sometimes even on reversal it stops me. I think it deals with where you are positioned on the stage. It tends to hit me when I’m 2-3 sprites away from the corner that it stops me. In the corner it usually doesn’t. Sometimes Hondas can stop me with I believe a cr. MK? but usually its the LP that stops me. The best thing to happen to me is getting a super meter before I die. I tend to win by time or the chip damage on this one. My super after a torpedo usually gives me an edge on life meter…obviously. But if it is a chip battle, Hondas usually have the upperhand in my experiences. Now If the Honda I play doesn’t do a chip battle. He’s rushing at me. For some reason, I have problems dealing with Hondas splash. I try everything as in LP Headbutt, standing MP, cr. HP, but usually my headbutts get me to the other side of Hondas splash landing, and he gets me with a HHS. And If I try to stop it with normals, we tend to trade hits, with him doing more of the damage. So I like to keep it a chip battle. I do get lucky in stopping his splash sometimes, but that’s just sometimes. Usually if all else fails, I go for the tick, but the smart ones reversal out of the attempt. I can also never seem to get a good TAP on Honda. I get lucky ones when i get them knocked down, but most the times i get torpedoed out of it. It doesn’t even have to be a reversal hit, and it stil hits me. Then there are times where I throw it out randomly when they think i’m going for a low rush after a torpedo block. But once it does connect, I go for the quick jab, low rush combo for the chip damage again. The reason I hate rushing Honda though is not because of the torpedo, but a lot of the times I’m about to go for a meaty, they get the LK frog Splash to get out which really throws off my charge, and sends me as well into confusion. So I really have a hard time in this match. 7-3 Honda
Blanka
Guile: I am usually in favor of this match. I treat it like I’m fighting Ryu, except for one thing. I’m not too afraid of rushing him down. I do grow weary of his reversal shield kick, but nothing a little wait and bait can’t handle. I like to LP Headbutt his sonic booms to go through them. I avoid HP Headbutts because its a free hit for him to walk up HP. Only do so when he is in range to get hit by it. One thing I like about fighting Guile is that I can go combo galore on him. If after he attempts a missing shield kick, i can basically throw whatever combo I want at him if I was next to him…tends to happen a lot in this match. Anyways, after he goes for a missing Shield Kick, it leaves him standing up, he has no recovery time to go for a crouch or block for that matter. I usually just finish him off with a cr. LP x3, st. LP, Dash, or cancel into the super if I have it. The good guiles usually turtle with sonic booms, but their sonic booms aren’t faster than a headbutt, and rush, so they will be jumping or trying to hit you with a normal. Nothing a little block and another rush can’t handle. Poking with standing HP and standing MP, and Tick grab works very well 8-2 Balrog
Ken: Much like fighting Ryu, except I have to be extra careful with my Headbutts. Ken can’t spam as fast with his fireballs like Ryu, but that doesn’t stop him. His FB spam is easier to get through, but much like Guile, I wouldn’t throw a HP Headbutt unless you hit him, because he can basically walk up and stand HK for the hit. Try to jump over everyone of his fireballs with a straight up jump HP. Also I make sure I never miss a headbutt when I attempt to hit him with it. Most of the good Kens go for the DP combo that usually just connects. I stay weary. Against Ken, I play more wait and bait, because his LP DP is just too damn deadly to take a risk. I rush him Hard when I feel like the ken I play against isn;t very good at reversal. Not as much of a patience match like Ryu, but I think you gotta be somewhat aware. 7-3 Balrog
Chun Li
Gief
Sim: I personally like this match for some reason. All I can say is, get zoned, be zoned, and damn, zoned again. From my experiences, the conclusion of the match is decided at the beginning of the match. Before I start explaining the match, I’d like to offer some advice. A tick out of nowhere is great. But after you grab him once, try not to go for the second tick after he gets released from the first one. I usually start to mound and pound after wards. Also, when you get him knocked down or standing right next to him. Try not to go for a cross up or a foward jump. I personally feel like the jump up straight and hitting him with HK to meaty combo is your best bet. You don’t want to take the chance of jumping over him if he slides, or just standing there for him to throw you out of range. So anyways. At the beginning of the match, I like to use what I call a suicidal move, Anything that gets you close to him. I tend to go for the HK kick rush. It stops a jumping sim, or if the sim takes no action and decides to crouch, you can go for the grab. I do this only because If i take no action from the start, he’ll have me zoned already. I might as well take a hit. I’m not saying you should do this. So if he gets me zoned out? I think that i have to take hits to get in close. Usually I will HP headbutt over a Yoga Fire, get hit by his limbs, and then go for a rush. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Pray that it does. Then there are times I’ll walk and try to poke out his limbs with a cr. mp, and st HP. Then there are times I’ll walk up and get hit by his LP Yoga Fire, take the hit, and release a TAP. Hey, I gotta do whatever it takes to get in close. Make sure you don’t get hit by a HP Yoga Fire unless you want to get knocked down. Pretty much the whole match for me. Keeps me at my tricks and keeps me guessing. If he drills you, silly him, now you’re close to pound him. 5-5 Tied
Boxer: I can’t explain mirrors, cause mirrors are mirrors. And I hate all mirrors except Shoto mirrors, or Honda mirrors.
Hawk
Cammy
Sagat: This match goes both ways for me. His projectile game is the most dangerous, for both me and him actually. His Tiger shot is so fast, I can Headbutt through one, and get hit by another one on the way down. So what I normally do is block some, and jump straight up a low tiger, and walk up a bit, and try to jump over another low tiger. I think this match calls for great reaction, cause if u jumped over a low tiger, u gotta respond quickly to his next. Basically Sagat’s arm on his Tiger shot make him a victim to his own attacks. You dodge one tiger, and if he responds with another, you can jump HP him if he shoots another low. If you see him shoot high, u can duck, and go for the low rush. I always seem to hit his arm or legs depending on which rush I use. So basically all you have to do is dodge 1 or 2 tiger shots, get up to half the screen, and you can get a knock down on him. Now when I’m rushing him, I sort of wait and bait, but I try not to wait too long, otherwise he’ll push me back to my end of the screen restarting the whole process. Plus, don’t even try to cross Sagat. He’s too tall. His arms are his strengths and weakness. Try to exploit it as a weakness during this match. It’s what I do. 6-4 Balrog
Claw: An absolutely dreaded match for me for some reason. I like my opponents grounded, but with Claw flying all over the damn screen, It just brings me nightmares. I usually rush and tick the hell out of Claw. And I like it when he blocks. Take off his claw, and his high flying range attacks don’t affect you as much I say. When he does happen to have the claw on, my headbutts and normal anti airs have to be timed soo well. I unfortunately am mediocre at timing, so i usually get hit or trade hits. When he does have his claws off, timing doesn;t have to be as hard. Basically I rush rush rush rush. TAP everytime he gets knocked down. I still do it even if the opponent is good at reversals. I can’t really explain much of what I do in this match, simply because I don;t know what the hell is going on most the time. 7-3 Claw
Fei: Some reason Fei is a strange match for me. Sometimes I completely dominate him, and sometimes I get beaten badly. I think it’s best to push Fei back into his corner, or bait him to your corner, cause your headbutts tend to stop most of his incoming moves. I do not like him in the middle of the stage. I feel like his specials and normals knock out all my rushing. Best I think is to normal your way into him. But I like to bait to my corner. Poking works best in your corner. I pretty much spam cr MP in my corner all day. And if he attempts to rekka, or flying kick, I simply Headbutt him out. If he Rekka chips you, you are in for a field day of combos. my favorite is the cr LP x3, st LP, Dash. But sometimes like I said, he beats me pretty bad, and I don’t know why 8-2 Balrog
Dee Jay
Dictator: Okay, I find this match a bit strange. I use Dictator also, and when I fight many Boxers, I usually end up winning. Seems like Dictator’s cr. mk poke stops the majority of Boxer’s rushes. Sometimes even the low rush. The weird part of this match is that Dictator likes to zone you out, and also rush you. The other weird part is that you don’t want to be zoned, nor do you want to be rushed. His Devi’s Reverse can be tricky, but if you can time your kick rush right, you can stop him in mid air. Headbutt seems to work also, but I hate the recovery time. His headstomp will get the better of Balrog, but the best thing to do is block up and try stop the incoming hit with a kick rush, or standing MP. Sometimes it is best to block it as well. Beware of him not taking any action and walking up for the grab. Sometimes if you feel it coming, you can headbutt through the stomp, but you risk the danger you’re putting yourself into. Bison’s zoning will have him at the other end of the screen. Do try to build your super with rush wiffs, but be weary of incoming stomps. If Dictator Pycho crushes through you, hit him with a standing HP. If you happen the get rushed by Dictator, I say the best thing is to grab him, and go for a tick. Get him knocked down, and rush him by jumping on him, or TAP as he wakes up. Sometimes a good Dictator will Devil’s Reverse out of incoming rushes and pull himself out of your rush. I know this, I get it a lot. Most of the times when I’m Dictator, I usually lose to rogs that have grabbed me twice or 3x a match. Also when Dictator rushes you, headbutt works well, but don’t abuse it, he’ll grab you on your miss or chip. Also in the very beginning of the match, there is really nothing you can do if he jumps back. Every rush I notice seems to miss. But sometimes it’s safe because the wiff recovers right when he lands, but he can Psycho crush you for some chip damage, and get to the other side of the screen. You can sometimes land him with a standing HP. Weird match indeed. Best is to rush wiff and grab. Seems to work wonders. I normally say this match is 6-4 Dictator, but since I’m kind of use to Dictator’s antics, i say 5-5
I’ll update this more.
Am I seeing things or is there extra hitboxes on strong Headbutt? It’s looks like it’s farther back on his body. This may be the reason why going through fireballs with strong headbutt is difficult.
I have been playing around with strong headbutt and have had a lot of success using it against crossups. I believe this extra box may enable me to tag an opponent I haven’t been able to with fierce.
Also, this headbutt is very useful in the match against honda. If you ever get in a war with honda going back and forth with sumo headbutts and low rushes you can throw in strong headbutt as a reversal. Oftentimes the jab and fierce versions will go straight through a sumo headbutt, but the strong hits more often. If honda decides to fall short with his headbutt this also has a better chance of hitting him than jab headbutt.
I will await your updates until your done. : )
Good stuff. I’ll try to think about how I can incorporate it into my guide.
I’d suggest classifying ‘crossups’ in the same manner Sirlin did with the ST Tutorials. Did he put crossups in the intermediate or advanced video?
Why did you have to answer a questions with another question? Now I have to go all the way to youtube, look up Sirlin’s video, and watch all the way until he mentions cross ups. Sooooo much work.
Yeah, Sirlin said he made it so MP headbutt can go through fireballs but most of the time I try it I get hit out. I guess MP Headbutt only works when the fireball is right next to you, like when you use a LP Headbutt to short hop over fireball zoning. If anything, it makes using headbutt as a reversal to get out of a meaty fireball less risky.
I’ll add that this seems to work well against claw dives with Vega. The jab and fierce versions typically only evade the attack, but the Rog’s buttocks seem to catch Vega in the face on the strong one.
[snicker]
Edit: I updated the guide a little. There’s some formatting to be done, but I wanted to get the content up as soon as possible.
By the way, does anyone have any tips for fighting Cammy? She destroys me. I’m not sure if it’s lag or just bad reflexes, but I just can’t seem to headbutt out of hooligans or meaty attacks on wakeup. Additionally good Cammy’s will either drill you to death (in which case you have to try to counter poke at the risk of getting knocked down) or or they will turtle. I know cr. strong is supposed to stop Cammy dead in her tracks, but for some reason I seem to either lose or trade in Cammy’s favor.
Good Cammy players are tough. It sucks that Cammy has higher priority on a lot of her moves than Boxer does (namely her Cannon Drill). A good strategy to use against Cammy is to do a jab low rush. It comes out really quick, so it will get the better of a Cammy that just whiffed on a Cannon Drill attempt.
Buffalo Headbutts are pretty useless against Cammy, because a whiffed headbutt leaves you WIDE OPEN for a Cannon Drill up the ass. The only time a Buffalo Headbutt is good against Cammy is when she does that jump thing where she wraps her legs around your head, and slams you (no idea what that move is called).
I’ve played you a few times SRK_BOXER, good stuff. I need to practice more lol
Well I’ve been off HD Remix for a month, cuz my PS3 died. I finally sent it out for repair the other day, so I can’t wait to get it back and play some more SF. I’m going through withdrawals.
I’ll probably be a little rusty when I get it back haha.
So true. Her Cannon Dill is good for punishing as well as randomly poking for openings. Not that I’m complaining, but I feel like the risk reward ratio for Cannon Drill vs. Boxer’s cr. strong or cr. forward is in Cammy’s favor. Maybe I don’t throw out my normals as quickly and as frequently as I should?
When I try this, I’ll either trade with a drill if I randomly low rush. And if I try to punish a Drill I usually eat a Cannon Spike for my efforts.
Agreed, but I’m so used to abusing Headbutts. And her annoying Demon Flip like move is called Hooligan Combination. I think the throw is Hooligan Throw.
I can’t complain too much because Boxer is still top tier. I’m just still trying to figure a way to fight defensive Cammy players.