Huh, didn’t know that. I’ll try things out later!
Eh, it doesn’t work, but I think mostly because Honda has so much lag on the end of both his super and his hands. I guess the lesson is just that whenever you do super, mash jab hands in case your opponent trades with your super so that your recovery gets cut and you can start a juggling hands.
Hi everyone, first time posting despite I created my account a few years ago, lol.
I just recently started playing competitively SF2, and been maining Honda ever since, so I’ll probably be posting here more often.
I have a couple of questions guys:
After grabbing Guile with Fierce, there are sometime that Honda just won’t cross up, does this have to do with if they tech the grab quickly, or is it pure random?
And second, if I safe jump against Guile with short (and Guile blocks), and then do a thick Ochio, does Guile can escape that? Cuz, since he has to block high the jumping short, his charge for his Razor kicks disappears, so, how the fuck does he reversal the ochio?
The crossup jumping down+forward splash after a fierce grab always works unless Guile is anywhere near the corner. And yeah, that’s inescapable for Guile if he blocks it high and if you range yourself so that you’re outside of Guile’s throw range after the jump-in and the tick.
When playing with Honda online the only big trouble I am running into are good Guile and some Blanka players. i think I am going to try him as a main for now and try others if I end up failing at plan A.
Honda only has to down back it like always. If blanka jumps up or backwards you can fierce headbutt and force a block upon landing. if blanka jumps in you get a jab headbutt. If blanka does fierce roll you still get to force blanka to block the headbutt.
“This will not work b/c blanka can still hit Honda’s Fierce head butt on the way down or Honda will just go right underneath Blanka then Blanka gets free RH sweep when Honda comes out of the H.Butt”
You get to jab him out of balls as always and advance with slaps as always if you want to. i’m not sure how much of a downgrade his slaps have taken with this particular matchup. Random balls aren’t a good option now just like they weren’t before.
" true Hondas Jabs are still great Butt the HHS is severely weakened and Blanka can now punish that with more than one move. So HHS is rendered almost useless. Blanka can even hit that HHS from a safe jump distance in the air!"
Gutter trash blanka uses j.lk not mk. And st.lk is the ground poke of choice, i will use this tonight and try to rush down honda on the ground using it. If st.lk is much improved vs slaps it might be key, although jab headbut startup will blow through it.
"yes the lk (jumping or standing) is great vs Honda.
Overall i feel the match is now 6-4 to honda whereas before it was 6.5/3.5.
" I say 5-5 perhaps a slight advantage to Blanka but i have not tested this vs any elite Blanka as of yet!
While playing a Honda mirror match, at some point I somehow cleanly hit an incoming fierce headbutt with my jumping short, was that possible in ST?
Also, while doing my super, I was Flash kicked out of the second hit after the first was blocked - I thought that was taken out of Remix! So the super isn’t as safe now as I thought…
I’m pretty certain, correctly timed, a fierce headbutt will reach blanka after his j.lk is retracted to land and before he can jump again. I know i’ve had to block fierce headbutts after a jump back lk.
I didn’t notice slaps recieving that much of a downgrade, at worse they trade, but they do good damage anyway. It’s only day 3, but ultradavid is a solid honda player, he didn’t notice much of a downgrade. At best you won’t be counter hit unless you start throwing it out like a robot, which you couldn’t do vs blanka anyway since he’d just jump at you given that chance. j.lk owned slaps before anyway! It owned everything except jab headbutt
You’re right, it is possible to cleanly fierce headbutt Blanka out of the jumping LKs… it just requires very tight timing, especially from fullscreen. You want to hit him right after he’s landed, just as he’s trying to jump again.
I still haven’t noticed people hitting the hitbox more against my Honda, but I think that’s just because they don’t expect it. If I’m Blanka v Honda (for example), if I’m 2/3 screen away, down on life, and Honda has jab slaps out and this is ST, I’m gonna have a pretty hard time of winning, but in HDR, his slaps are vulnerable. Doing a random ball is a bad idea because while it’ll trade now (and yes, it does trade) Blanka takes more damage when in ball form, so he’ll lose on damage, but doing something like crouching fierce or slide might be a good idea. I think eventually it’s going to be really hard for Honda to just hold out slaps like that.
I’ll have to check the yoga book but I think that the timing on the headbutt to hit Blankas jlk is extremely difficult if not nearly impossible to pull off. I’m thinking that the jlk stays out until he hits the ground (honda is better off using standing RH to trip him when he lands). Also if Blanka is able to block the F headbutt he can immediately counter with a Vertical ball to hit Honda b/c he will still be recovering from the Fheadbutt being blocked. and yes the Honda jlk vs Hondas Headbutt was able to be done in regular ST. While playing with Kusomondo, he told me about a specific Honda combo punishing the fullscreen F.headbutt with jRH. and it Dizzies and does crap loads of damage.
While testing the game at Evo I never checked into those types of things, there just wasn’t enough time. I only looked at his new moves and how to punish them and how to punish with them.
Trust me though, Honda can still lose just about any matchups. I haven’t seen or heard anyone do the right things yet to expose the vulnerabilities that Honda has. Even though they are clearly for public display on sirlin.net
Sirlin wanted to create more thought involved game play, not just mindless free victories. and that is what we have now! I used to solely rely on HHS to win 50% + of my games. Now that can’t be done anymore. I’ll will have to be much more careful while playing against most of my opponents.
It’s definitely very possible, I’ve pulled it off plenty of times. It’s a lot easier from mid-range than from fullscreen, obviously, so what I like to do from fullscreen is jab headbutt to get into mid-range, then time my fierce headbutt from there to hit Blanka as he’s jump-LKing at midrange.
If Blanka immediately jumps towards me after the jab headbutt, I just block the LK since I likely don’t have a back charge yet, then Blanka is stuck near me as I’m charged which is good. If he doesn’t then it’s a mostly free fierce headbutt for me if I get the timing right.
Edit: Just to clarify, hitting the LK itself with a fierce headbutt is retardedly difficult or impossible, the idea is to hit Blanka’s prejump / early jump frames before he can actually get the LK out.
Really?! Wow, I’ve never seen that one, sounds pretty deadly!
Yes hitting Blanka when he leaves the ground happens a lot in that situation. He will want to keep jumping to try and zone you. this leaves him vulnerable to being hit while trying to leave the ground.
Blanka has no business ever jumping towards Honda EVER! A top level Honda will always have either the splash or the Headbutt charges at all times. Usually after I do a jab headbutt i’m already charged again for another one once it lands b/c it takes so long for it to come out.
Are you playing HD Remix on Xbox Live? I would like to play against you in HD Remix and hopefully learn some of your tricks. Your performance on Xband is the main reason I play E. Honda today. I didn’t know what he was capable of until I played against you.
I was trying some shit with Honda today. After a successful ochio, you can try and go for a RH Buttslam and if they block it, for some characters like Chun li, it always crosses up and the distance is the perfect one for a negative edge stored ochio.
For others chars like Akuma, although it always crosses up, the distance gets perfect only when you are on the left side (before the Buttslam).
And for other characters like Blanka, sometimes it will crossup, regardless if it crosses up or not the distance is perfect, so with good reaction you can quickly do the right motion.
I know it’s a risky mixup to go for a RH Buttslam, but if the opponent blocks it, u either get a free ochio or block the reversal.
Old timer SF player here. I’m back because of HD remix, and for now Honda is going to be my main. What is this negative edge Ochio throw you guys are talking about?
I think Honda is very strong in this game. There’s very few matches where I think he’s at a disadvantage. The toughest fight for me has been Chun Li if she’s constantly jumping away and throwing fireballs. Vega can also be problems if he disguises his wall jumps and jumping on your head, because it’s so fast (although it could be my reflexes at this point). I basically have to predict what he’s going to do to counter it (can’t do it on reaction).
Also, even though Honda has new tools with the jab headbutt, jumping short, and quicker HHS, I think he still has problems to a certain degree with fireball/sonic boom characters. It’s not a major mismatch, but it’s very possible to get stuck full screen distance with a projectile spammer and temporarily lose a good chunk of health before you can get to a more manageable distance.
I think that will always be his achilles’ heel since he is such a slow moving character, but jab headbutt has definitely made a difference. It feels good to have a more offensive way to avoid fireballs and gain ground than jumping fierce. I’ve been abusing it quite a bit, but I think people will eventually adjust to it and Honda will have some of the same problems as before.
Negative edge means doing a special move by releasing a button, rather than by pressing it down. You can press Jab down, do the motion for the Ochio, then release Jab and the Ochio will come out if you can do it. If you can’t (because you’re too far or whatever), nothing happens and you just sit there blocking. So it’s a safer way of doing an Ochio.
Couple questions… I fought a good Zangief just now and he won in the 5th round by getting a wake-up SPD when I was doing the HHS at point blank range (he was knocked down). Is it not safe to HHS guys when they’re knocked down? Or even if it is unsafe, is that reversal so difficult that you should do it anyway?
Also, one time I was doing the HHS (either strong or fierce) and it hit Zangief twice, then he grabbed me with an SPD before getting hit by it a third time. Could you do that before, or is this a result of the tweak for Remix? That window of vulnerability makes me believe characters can reverse there. For example, can Ryu Dragon Punch while getting hit to stop the agony?
Everything you just described there was also in ST. It’s never really safe to do any attack on anyone who’s been knocked down, because reversals (high-priority moves done on the first frame where you regain control of your character) beat everything including the HHS.
And yeah, as you guessed, the enemy can sometimes reversal between the hits of the HHS, or even throw you if you’re too close to them. Ryu can DP you, Zangief can SPD, Bison can do his super if he’s mad lucky/skilled, etc.