Vergil is best either 2nd (gives your point char DHCs into TODs) or anchor (xf3). If Vergil is gonna kill on point, he’s gonna spend tons of meter on sword loops if it gets scaled by plasma beam or cold star. Leaving no meter for the doom/ammy tech. Basically this team does not build meter, Viper on the other hand builds a ton and can be meter positive after kill.
You make a strong argument. It’s true that DHC into vergil can pretty much guarantee a kill on anything with the added possibility of building meter at the end.
And you’re right about meter generation. The team I described when using a typical TOD combo ends up at around -1 meter at the end of it. Is it hopeless or do you think there might be a way to fix the problem? I know that missiles can be used to extend the combo, which could help generate a bit more meter. I don’t really want to rely on TAC combos to get the kill every time…
Look for the vergil/doom optimized combo video. It goes starter, s, delay, sj hit them with the top of your H’s hitbox, helm breaker, call missiles, m teleport, dash s, sj. H, helm breaker, roundtrip, c.H, L orbs, c.H, stinger, m tele, dash a bit, cancel into c.H, S, H, roundtrip, c.H, L orbs, c.H, sword loops.
This combo actually builds a good amount of meter to start with.
Also learn the rapid slash raw tag doom tech. Gets you over a mil for 3 meters starting from rapid slash, not sure how much it builds though.
I can’t say it’s a bad team. Worst case Vergil does nothing, but you get some meter just in the neutral game and dying. Then you can ammy/doom thc probably at least 3 times. Ammy xf3 doesn’t need meter since she has that infinite loop in sword stance.
Vergil gets more mileage out of missiles as an extension at the end of a combo, particularly after a DHC if you have vergil 2nd. I’d really advise against playing Vergil on point unless you need him for a counterpick or something, but that’s just my preference.
Definitely learn the raw tag tech. The optimized version I came up with iirc was 2 meters to start, meter neutral, and did a solid 1m+. Way more than you can get off of any other rapid slash confirm.
Haven’t really gone through much more experimenting with the team since my last post, but I’d still like to get back to it some day, especially now that we know that you can TAC/TAC reset during sword loops.
i know u touched on it before but i can’t seem to find where. What is your go to block string after you DHC into vergil swords? I",m assuming it starts with stinger + missiles, release round trip, then i dont know what u do after.
I’m running nova vergil hawkeye. When I have vergil out, my primary tactical goal is to connect a normal (generally an L, M, or stinger), hit or block, with the idea of calling arrows xx M teleport for the crossup. Nothing new.
My question is: what are some good ways to try and get and/or keep the opponent on the ground, as this crossup doesn’t really work when they’re airborne. I don’t so much mean camping at sj height, but just more chicken blockers, rampant jumpers, etc. Going for air grabs helps, but doesn’t solve the problem.
I assumed I could summon swords, move in, then do my sM or whatever as swords ended. But to my dismay, I found blocked swords doesn’t really ground them. Any other ideas? The answer has to assume vergil ‘solo,’ since my assist needs to be ready upon success. Thanks!
so im trying to run modok/vergil/doom but i need advice on a corner swords loop starter.
I’ve been doing opener, S, sj MMHS, land slime fly, jS, L cube, S, sj MMxx M cube, air HPB, then as the opponent falls down in an untechable state, I DHC to swords. From there I"ve been doing j d+H, j d+H, Round trip, but I’m stuck right here. Not sure if this is the best way to start whatever sword loop.
to give you an idea of what the modok combo looks like, here it is. just replace the frank west with vergil.
I"m assuming the best dhc starter is DHc into vergil, j d+H, j d+H, release round trip, qcf+L? Kind of stuck there. Or should I just go with a different modok combo like HPB while grounded?
and i’m guessing that beam is best modok assist to use with vergil? or anyone seen anyone use bomb/barrier with vergil?
I’d do judgement cut L (hold l), helmbreaker, throw round trip, judgement cut L. It’s not the best starter, as round trip glitch shenanigans are becoming more prevalent, but I recommend starting with that one.
Beam is probably optimal. I could see barrier being viable if you’re playing a keepaway/chipout vergil, but that requires for meter to be at the ready for DT. I can’t really think of any other uses vergil would get from barrier. As far as the bomb, I don’t know enough about 'dok to answer that question.
Is there a move missing? Am I supposed to be charging M after the swords hyper? Not sure how there os enough time to go from hyper to l orb (hold L), HB, round trip, L orb.
Additionslly, the modok combo would probably cause me to use the wall bounce. Any way to continue the loop while keeping them in the corner ir is it typically not suggested?
Whoa yeah, my bad. It’s charge m. You hold L on the second judgement orb to get ready for lunar phase, cr. h, stinger (wall bounce) throw round trip. You are correct.
If it is at all possible to save your wall bounce, that’s what I’d be doing. If not, it’s not the end of the world, you can still use your ground bounce to get an extra round trip off of the DHC, but you’re probably going to run into some spacing issues and kinks that you’ll have to work out yourself.
Thanks man I appreciate it. I actually just scaled down my modok combo to incorporate a post swords groundbounce/wall bounce usage. however, I’ve been dhcing from normal jump height. I end my combo on the ground with HPB and then DHC into swords.
I’ve seen someone use SH as a starter instead of judgement cut L or helm breaker. Anyone have any input on that or is it typically frowned upon?
you can see it used here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k32kuwp2v0
Thanks thou guys, I actually hate vergil but I can’t deny his power. will keep practicing!
Anyone know of any potentially youtubeable players who run vergil backed by drones? On paper I always wondered why a metered up vergil couldn’t do a decent mvc2 strider doom with smartly timed swords supers and drone calls.
My larger question, the tree to which the above is just a branch, is I feel pretty committed to nova vergil xxx. Love it with hawkeye, like it with strange, not bad with task, doom is obv good but I’m just not a huge plasma-nova fan… anyway, I very much like drones nova but dunno how well that’d work for his partner. Forgetting for a moment that anchor sent sucks, shouldn’t one of the games best chars with one of the games best assists just run train?
Anyway, input is welcome both for drones-vergil ideas, AND alt ideas for x in nova vergil xxx. Forget anchor quality, just looking for assist quality. (No spencer, no strider, thx)
@ kensanity As long as you’re looping it’s hard to go wrong honestly. SH is a bit more lenient as far as the timing goes, but it will drop on some smaller characters (like zero) if you’re not careful with your spacing. The most viable use of an SH starter I’ve seen involves using the round trip glitch, but I wouldn’t recommend that to someone for their first swords loop. Find out what works and is consistent for you, and stick with it. As you develop more of a feel for the character you’ll get more comfortable with the idea of switching up swords loops.
@Thisguilekillya I know I told you last night that drones vergil would get blown up, and I still very much think that. Had a thought pop into my head though, if you’re good with blistering IOHs and have meters stocked, Vergil/drones would be viable. I don’t know about “good”, but viable at the very least. Although honestly I’m sure that somewhere, there is someone running Vergil with drones and cold star backing him, glitching people to death all day, so who knows.
Ok, forget I mentioned sent. That was a non starter, blegh. The real question, after much testing, is if I prefer the superior-for-vergil hawkeye arrows, or allows for massive dmg on nova air grab doom beam (for nova vergil xxx).
So I ask you vergil pros… are there any concrete reasons plasma beam is better for vergil than hawk arrows? I’m talking ASSIST ONLY… attached to doom is irrelevant for this question. Aside from the scaling, which is less important, seems like combos off plasma don’t work the same (they fall out of my bnb at the end), beam-teleport crossups seem kinda weak with plasma, but seem optimized to the point of near unblockability with arrows. Hell, I can’t even get raw helm breaker, swords, assist, high tide pickups working with the plizmplazm 
(but that might be me)
Basically, I’m ready to go doom for the boon to novas air grabs, but want to guage how bad vergils gonna suffer trading arrows for plasma. Help!! 
Hrm, ok ill shorten the question:
What do you guys think of plasma beam for vergil? Helpful and ideal? Or necessary concession for team composition?
Hi there, the reason I use SH instead of the typical starter in that combo is because captain’s hyper charging star ends with the character floating really low and sometimes characters would drop out if I started with orb or helm breaker. with SH, they are set at a comfortable height for me to continue the DHC combo. If I were to DHC from a different hyper combo that ends with the opponent floating higher, I would start with orb, helm breaker, RT instead.
Thought I’d butt in and say I use judgement cut as the great equalizer. I’ve never seen judgement cut drop, and if it did it’s because I DHC’d too late and the opponenet was basically on the ground already. I’m sure SH has it’s uses, but judgement orbs don’t really drop people… in fact they save you from drops
So how does vergil typically work with strider? seems like vajra hitting in the air can only convert into either high time xf combo or high time into dimension slash. Am I supposed to maybe hit the character on the way down when vajra hits?
vergil / strange can ToD some off the cast off rapid slash 1 bar. not new but for anyone wondering… this is not even optimized