NEVER!!!
Just press the button quicker and it’s all gravy, baby! 
eh, just a thought.
Why the thumbs down bout justifying a storable, negative edgeable, no whiff command throw?
yo I think he was trying to thumbs down the fact you didn’t read his post very well, he isn’t trying to justify it at all and even believes it should be removed, but it doesn’t matter because cammy/fei suck shit anyway
My original question was asking how did sirlin justify it? I just didn’t want to use his name.
EDIT: He didn’t, just read the articles, and he didn’t want to nerf the glitch, nor did he address why he left it storable, although he mentioned that property of the move.
oh, because sirlin is a goofy shitball
I think the real reasoning though was he felt the new ochio bounce was enough but lol
I still like how sirlin bashed sfiv allowing sf3 kara throw glitches, but oicho glitch is fine.
No…he “justified” it here on this forum. It was in the Fei Long thread. I remember because I was one of the main people he tried to sell his justification to.
He basically said “Honda is a defensive tank” and that’s why he should have stored Ochio. It’s a “character flavor” thing. Funny thing is that he decried that sort of thing when he wrote “Playing To Win” when comparing Virtua Fighter characters Pai and Lau. Pai players can get away with an extra punch input and still have their combo come out, but Lau players cannot…because Lau is a “skill” character according to Yu Suzuki, creator of Virtua Figther. (Yeah…didn’t make sense to me either. Proof that those that create their games don’t necessarily know how to play them.)
My thing is…whatever happened to balancing execution and skill? Sure, easier inputs are fine and dandy, but storing a throw in defensive crouch for an already overly defensive character? If Hawk could have his negative edge stuff removed by giving him a whiff animation, it should’ve been just as easy and obvious to do the same for Honda. All IMHO, of course.
Anyway, yeah, Kuroppi, true to the person that I’ve played locally over the years, would never say that Honda needs stored Ochio to win. I can see why he would say that he doesn’t need it himself, given his reversal ability with Zangief and Hawk. What would really spice things up would be if the motion was changed so that it ended in a forward direction. OOooooohhhh…he takes a risk to throw! Anywho…
Sigh, that’s the problem with hindsight.
Especially liking the forward oicho idea, i’d hate for honda to have to press forward for a command throw and drop his charge, too risky and all.
Lol though since I main ken/guile anyway.
Anyone else think it’s funny and ironic that Honda’s “flavor” is the main consideration for him to keep stored Oicho…yet Fei Long, a Bruce Lee clone, has several of his moves slowed down for balance’s sake? So Fat Man can keep one of the most abusable moves in the game because it “suits him,” but Fei Long, who has never once been high in the tier lists, loses some of his main playstyle as what, a precaution? Oh, wait, I can see how the logic follows now. It’s not in Fei Long’s flavor to be tournament viable!
To be fair, I do think Fei’s a bit underrated against some of the cast, but we’ll never know how good he could have been with some of his basic pressure game removed (instead of only very lightly tweaked like it could have been).
Just because something isn’t repeatable doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not abusable. It’s very telling when so many people are clamoring for a lot of the same things, isn’t it?
I would honestly alter Chun’s jumping forward to keep the SAME hitbox but only come out for a few frames. It takes no skill to jump and hit forward and then have the move remain out for so long.
This would make the Chun vs Dictator match a little less retarded because jumping forward stuffs almost all of Dicator’s move list pretty well and it takes very little execution to do so.
At least with less active hitboxes (red boxes) Chun wouldn’t basically be invincible throughout her entire jump versus Dictator.
I know Chun got nerfed a ton but she still owns Dictator.
Dic can catch Chun with repeated jumping strong pretty well. Greater authorities on the subject have a Dictator thread you could pose some good questions to.
The last thing Chun-Li needs is something else removed or watered down from her move set. Dictator got plenty beefed up; he’s really a contender now. If anything, Chun needs some of her stuff changed back.
-Old air SBK for meter building (and not accidentally doing it all the damn time when trying to jump up and kick from crouch)
-The way her super connects (allowing for upkicks/ all hits on all characters, but still less damage overall than ST). And since it’s weaker in any case, MAKE THAT SHIT ZOOM THROUGH FIREBALLS. It wouldn’t do the stupidly high damage from before, but the way it instills fear into an opponent would be much more like ST. (Plus, she lost cross-up neckbreaker; she needs more power somewhere else.)
-Speed up her ground/parabolic SBK so that you can time it right to trade out of the corner against splashes like she could on ST. Or a few more invincible frames, whichever. (I’m not for giving her a “guaranteed” reversal; that really would be against her flavor. Just a slightly better one.)
NKI switched mains from Chun-Li to Dictator in this version. This is pretty telling to everyone who knows how hardcore he was about Chun in ST. Dic got better; Chun got worse. She’s still very good, but she’s one of the few who seemed to actually lose out in the transition to HD.
kara throws are pointless extra execution that you always want to do, for every non command throw character.
oicho is one throw on one character.
Reason why most people who play Chun switched in HDR is beause the input window for the new SBK is stupid, before you can do a jumping kick on reaction even when charged now it’s the (Magic SBK) coming out when you wanted to jump over that FB or counter Vega’s walldives with an instant jump up RH.
I don’t mind the super doing lesser damage but if DJ can do super into up kick why shouldn’t Chun, again it just the single minded balance ideas.
Lessons from HDR, if you want to balance a game don’t let a single person do it ! it should be a team of experts/pro’s.
Did you really mean kara throws are pointless? Or are you trying to say something else? Extending your throw range beyond that of your opponents is nothing to sneeze at. And command throw characters use kara throws, too. Makoto and Alex. I don’t think Hugo does, though.
Edit: Oh I think I see you point. Nevermind.
How involved were other people in the HDR project? I know Sirlin got a lot of suggestions from other players and had play testers, but I don’t know how often he took their advice or held brainstorming sessions with them. Also, if a team had tackled HDR, it might have taken longer if creative differences came up. Either way, a team of at least two people would have been nice.
Promote this man:smokin:
If Sirlin didn’t main Fei Long in this game, I’d agree with you.
And that’s what makes it so infuriating. He mains Fei Long and ruined the fool. All he needed was that extra rekka range and that would’ve been gravy. :looney: Super buff is sugar on top, I was so hyped for Fei Long with better rekkas and he had to go shit on any of his other pressure.
I’d be for that if they took out her stored super.
So he mains fei long and does well with him, but he is ruined?
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Maybe if you thought that fei long was good now, you would start winning with him?
The fact that Sirlin, a single player, mains Fei Long doesn’t make the argument less valid. (Once ol’ Fei starts racking up the tournament wins, different story maybe…but don’t hold your breath.) Fei, in and of himself, isn’t “better” the way Ken, Guile, and Dictator are in this version; he’s “different.” As a low rung on the tier ladder, it’s really a bit of a let-down to see him gain some good stuff, yet lose significantly as well. The fact of the matter is that short flame kick has never been abusable (meter-building and chip damage are far from “abuse”), and all of the chicken wings could have been handled with only a frame or two (instead of five) of additional recovery time to eliminate the possibility of goon combos.
I can definitely understand why a developer might feel that with the new motion that CWs could be too easily spammable…which is why the lower priority was a very good call. As is, if you can get in with that move, you deserve some well-earned damage and pressure. It’s like Cammy’s Hooligan set-up; you can see it coming and react damn near every time if you’re paying attention. The difference is that while Cammy throws you (good damage) then resets, Fei just hopes you’re airborne or that he doesn’t miss his mark if he connects. If Fei doesn’t catch you in the air, there’s a chance you’ll eat a lot of damage yourself even after connecting. That’s tremendously different than he was before.
If Sirlin and a group of others could methodically prove that Fei would be unbalanced with move properties as I’ve mentioned, I would totally concede to the evidence. Does anyone really see that happening? (Besides the fact that another patch seems pretty damned unlikely, sadly.) I love the flavor that was added to Fei Long; he’s a lot of fun to play. I just hate that the rest was so watered down in what was already a low-tier character…and knowing how truly great he could have been. (There, that’s my peace. I retire on Fei Long tirades.)