None of those fighters have a 30% damage command throw either. Honda has Ochio but no where near as deadly as t.hawks.
Difference is that Hawk’s dive isn’t a reliable measure to narrow the distance, Honda has so many ways to get close and so does rog.
Simple Kiss was right Embrio, they don’t have the power of Hawks Typhoon. If the dive knocked down, Hawk could do anything he wanted to his opponents. Anything. That’s like, top tier right there.
I don’t get why people are complaining about the new grab motion. The 360 is still there, stop complaining already. Its even easier now to do a standing grab so I’m pretty happy about that. I walk-up grab rate went from like 75% to like 95% because of that. I wish the 720 was still there though.
I don’t get why people are complaining about the whiff either. Yeah, its harder too grab with it than with Zangiefs, but if you could walk-up Typhoon, and just Typhoon with ease in the first place with Hawk in ST, its not even a problem, so again, why are you all complaining? Hawk is all about precision anyway.
Its really starting too annoy me how people say its was all narf narf narf with Hawk. I guarentee half of you saying that hardly or don’t even play him. Yeah, it would’ve been nice if he had his Old Dive as well as his New Dive, but all it did was change his approach. Get your opponent thinking that you’re gonna DP after a blocked dive and walk-up and Typhoon instead. He’s a hell of a lot more threatening than he was in ST. Even more tourney players are taking him way more seriously. He can still slaughter you without the knock-down dive. He just has different options now. Figure them out.
People are complaing because the grab motion, the new one, was implemented for scrubs plain and simple. There is no other way to put it. If you couldn’t walk up throw in those 3 frames with Hawk consistently in ST then you weren’t practicing enough. You have 3 frames to input a throw if you are doing a walk up throw. That’s three times as lenient timing compared to a reversal (which is one frame). Plenty of enough time. ST was all about execution. The game rewarded practice, precision, and timing. In respect to execution, HDR is a step backwards in the SFII series, in my opinion.
Hawk isn’t the only character to get easier inputs. Zangief got his throws new with inputs, Ryu’s DP window is fixed now, Dictator’s SUPER window is fixed as well and larger, Fei, Sagat, and Cammy have simpler move commands now.
The oddest part of Sirlin’s change to the commands of Hawk’s throws is that the 360 command was made easier, but the SUPER command (the 720) is now a lot harder (and then you factor in the motion bugs and it is much harder). Tick to 720 in ST was difficult but with practice becomes easy, the new motions are so unatural for Sanwa square or circle gates
I’m a sports producer for a living. I love watching sports media. I honestly enjoy watching ST (and other games) as much as playing it. That being said I easily have over 10,000 matches between O.Hawk, N.Hawk, and R.Hawk.
And not a single person is saying that Hawk is all nerfs. R.Hawk getting O.Hawk’s normals is a positive. Though none of those normals are really additions or anything new, they are simply O.Hawk’s normals. The slight change to his DP, and removing the errant hitbox from crouching strong were also nice additions but nothin momentous.
Hawk has always been a tourney level character. Hawk players have been at SBO, and a team of Hawk players won an X-Mania tournament, it’s not like Haley’s comet rare to see Hawk at a tournament.
But you have provided zero evidence to show that Hawk is ‘a hell of a lot more threatening’ in HDR compared to ST. He’s even at best. Which means bottom tier again.
And no, Hawk can’t slaughter a good player anymore, reversals beat the command throw. If you are facing bad competition that can’t reverse then yes you are going to eat them alive. But once your opponent starts reversing half of your command throw attempts and gaining the advantage it’s hardly a one-sided slaughter now is it.
uhh rogs turn punch knocks down? really? i mean, even though it doesnt, he still has that sick dash punch but still, none of those characters have a typhoon
the biggest thing holding hawk back now id say is active grab frames. then the dive. i hate the new dive really, it doesnt set up much, but if i had to, i could live with it. active grab frames? come on, really. how did you miss that sirlin?
virtua - what was wrong with ryus dp and bisons super? ill admit, walk up 360 is REALLY hard at first. mainly because it feels like you have to do the whole 360 (270 only) and because hawk has a faster jump than gief. however, with practice, it GETS easier. hitting jab before you hit up is crucial.
I thought they changed the input window for the DP but I don’t see it written up anywhere on Sirlin’s blog. Can anyone confirm or deny this? For Dictator however it says “Super input window is larger and is a fixed size, rather than random size” on Sirlin’s website. Nearly everyone in the game seems to have their super window altered the same way (except for the grapplers who have new commands).
Found it, nevermind I was right:
“All dragon punches are easier because the timing window to perform them is no longer random?you now always get a 15 frame window between each joystick motion rather than a random number between 8 and 15 (and you only had a small chance of getting 15 in the original game). 360 motions are easier because they no longer require you to hold up, leading to accidental jumps. Spinning Pile Drives can now be done by half-circle forward, then back + punch or half circle back, then forward + punch. There is a lot of leeway on these commands so that they can still be done from defensive crouch, and the old 360 commands still work too.”
Zangief slaughtered in ST, he had a whiff. He still does, and whose wiping the floor with Xbox Live again? Mix it up. Typhoon after a cross-up. Don’t throw out a grab when your opponent is gonna reversal, block it, then grab him/her anyway. If you know they’re gonna reverse, use that to your advantage. I’ve given it too some awesome players, including Haru Tejyo.
And if you think Hawk is bottom tier, fight me or Gridman.
orly
hawk is bottom tier =P loses to other bottom tiers
I’m not saying he is or isn’t bottom tier, but that’s flawed logic. A bottom-tier character being played well does not equate to that character not being bottom tier.
debatable… If you don’t see it coming and it’s lp crusher from max range, yeah it’s safe afterwards. I don’t know if I would just lump it together saying “psycho crusher is safe” though
Only bottom tier he really loses too if played right is Cammy. Gief is an even fight. I wouldn’t even call Blanka bottom tier anymore. He loses to Fei, but its only like 6-4. Certainly not Gief’s disadvantage. It doesn’t matter who it really is though; once the pressure is on with Hawk, its gonna suck to be you unless your name happens to be Edmund.
The difference between Balrog/Honda and T.Hawk is that the game isn’t necessarily over if balrog and honda score a knockdown. When T.Hawk scores a knockdown - and unless you have pro level reversal timing, it’s time to bend over so hawk can sodomize you.
He’s a grappler…that’s kind of the point behind his design. As an example, sim already has pleanty of great poking tools so some could argue that a projectile is a bit of overkill. As a grappler character, the intent in his design is to strike fear when u get closed…and while where at suggestions I got another one. I don’t care what anyone says about this next one but IMO I think it wouldn’t be to big of a problem…and hear me out before u reach ur conclusions. I think the bounce of Hawk’s 360 is to servere…full screen is a bit to much if u ask me. I think the bounce should only be at the length of hawk’s s.RH…and when u consider the bound off of honda’s command throw it really wouldn’t be that big of a deal of hawk.
For R. Hawk, I wish he had his original KO dive
Whats wrong with two different dives for R.Hawk?
Punch 3x for knockdown dive
Kick 3x for the HDR dive
I wouldn’t underestimate T. Hawk, he’s like a Zangief with DP, and a better air game IMO.
I learned this while fighting that monstrous player, Mordoz. Props to your hawk, it is a beast
Sirlin tells you what’s wrong about that:
I never really had any issue with his bounce back. Least its not as bad as Gief’s.
Hawk’s bounce back is pretty good. Being the fastest walking-speed grappler allows him to walk up tick Typhoon almost all the characters, so it’s already better than Zangief’s bounce back. Zangief can only do that on the fat characters like Honda and Hawk.
hawk can walk up and far lk 360 after a 360. its pretty nooiiiceee.