Heh. You speak to a bunch of tekken diehards about changing the series and that’s the expected reaction.
The thing is though, I’ve talked to other fighting game players about this game, and they have similar stances as Darry has. And no, they’re not “wherez my xfactors mmhs autocombo” players. They’re intelligent, technical players of their own respective games.
I don’t think Tekken is incapable of rebooting itself. The bigger problem is that it’s difficult to reboot a fighting game franchise in general. If you make a game that risks alienating your base, you have to make sure that you capture a new (and bigger) audience while doing so. And that’s about as likely as lightning striking the same place twice.
Also, there are two separate things that I feel are being argued here. Are we talking about more general interest (sales) or a larger competitive base (tournament entries)? Mortal Kombat 9 is a good example of how they’re not always connected, although the former definitely helps the later.
Can’t begin to tell you how narrow-minded this is. Can’t you mash out in ______ and find some success? Applies to almost any new gen fighter. Meaning you can be less precise with your button presses.
Tekken 4 didn’t flop. Damn, why do people always overstate this? The game still sold millions of copies.
The problem is that Harada and co didn’t stick to their guns and further refine the new direction that T4 started (like Capcom did with the SF3 series). Instead, they saw the first sign of criticism (which is expected when you TRY NEW THINGS gasp) and backed down immediately, without a fight. There was no T4:DR or T4:BR. They immediately jumped to T5, reverting the formula to that old tried and true TTT1-esque Tekken that worked so well in the past. Rosters and movelists got bloated as they just kept copy pasta-ing moves and characters from new Tekken to new Tekken. Namco was afraid to try new things. And, now here we are.
T4 was Namco’s SF3:NG. But, instead of sticking to their convictions and digging through the dirt to find the gem hidden beneath the surface (Third Strike), Namco bailed.
Any series that’s been around for nearly 2 decades needs to shake things up, toss stuff out, refine, and reDEfine itself. There will be growing pains, as people whine about the “new direction”, but that is a necessary part of growth.
There is something wrong with trying different things just to be different. Harada still kept Tekken 5 different and fresh enough to warrant yet another game or two.
Third Strike is the best of the SFIII series…but Tekken does not need that type of revamping, mainly because the characters themselves are looking new each and every game.
Please stop trying to lump in 2D iconic fighters with equally iconic 3D ones.
i used sales to help me prove my point. i’m well aware that sales don’t always coincide with reception. my point still stands and isn’t refutable—tekken4 is widely considered the worst tekken out of 8 tekken installments (more than 8 if you consider the DR’s, BR’s, etc.) with T1 being the only contender for possible worst tekken, at that’s only because you’d be comparing a game from the early 90’s to a game from the early 2000’s. a little bit of disparity there.
But, Tekken1 did get the ball rolling and is still held in high regard as one of PS1’s best games (considering the time), which led to its very successful sequel, Tekken2. Tekken3 was a colossal success and spawned TTT1, another big success. T5, another major success, spawned T5.1 and DR. T6 was successful enough to spawn BR. And TTT2 already has an update not even a year after the arcade release. T4 had such a poor reception, namco didn’t even bother…straight to T5.
maybe with TxSF, namco can experiment with some new ideas to gauge player reaction (like a heavier projectile presence in the game). we’ll see how that goes. but any new installments into the main tekken series better be fundamentally what makes tekken the successful franchise that it has always been.
Actually I’ll bet money ( and whoever wants can save my post) that this ths last “real” Tekken in terms of what players know. Historically looking at this compared to VF, Tekken has always followed VF in design of where the series went sans Tag. This isn’t a “VF did it first!1!1!” type comparison( although it has, yet still kept its identity) as its something that is a good indicator of what to look for. What’s funny is the same design choices that were taken were also from
Listening to the fans of their respective games.
The obvious one is the VF3 and Tekken 4 comparisons. The changes made from VF2 to VF3 where the changes Namco made from T3 to T4 years later and the complaints from fans were the same, except VF3 is still regarded highly by some. VF 4 took it back to the essence of VF2. Tekken 5 eventually did it after T4 giving the fans what they want.
Look for a simpler movement scheme, higher damage and trimmed move list for the most part and simpler directions.
Hell the complaints about from VF players about OG VF5 mirrored the ones the SF players have about SFIV. FS simplified VF 5 in a smarter way which SFIV won’t end up doing though.
Honestly being simplified isn’t bad as long as it smartly designed, there will stuff missed but nothing that can’t be gotten over. FS is a lot harder than OG VF5 harder in some ways because of some simplifications that make the player rely on pure fundamentals and that’s not a bad thing (removal of Throw Clash for one).
These aren’t really issues. Normal moves track only in 1 direction or not at all, and the tracking is only just a little. Specific homing moves track 360 degrees, so in both ways, but are slower in general. They did that so that if you know what side your opponent will sidestep to, then you use the correct move for a bigger reward, and if you don’t then you just bust out a homing move.
I don’t know what axis issues are and neither crush inconsistencies (a move either does or doesn’t crush, not both).
The question is why change though? This game is striving and growing… It’s not “apparent” in N.A. but in other countries like Japan, Korea, China, Australia and Philippines (shoutouts to T’recs). We love the game as it is. And despite the “hard learning curve”, we still play the game despite LOSING MONEY BY LOSING. I dunno why it’s so different here in the U.S. in terms of mindset… People complain about having a hard time learning the game, while on the other side they actually ENJOY learning the game, and when they invent their own creative setups (which is possible only with a large movelist), they are hooked.
What I see is the people here in America is just plain impatient. Sorry… no offense. People want to win NOW. Tekken doesn’t have this reputation of being too hard until now when the netcode became good and apparently, the people who thought they were good, weren’t the people they thought they were. Second, people don’t enjoy learning here, straight up… The problem is people again want to be good at everything instantly.
Aris is right when he says learn things ONE AT A TIME. Not only you’re setting a attainable goal to yourself, you’re actually enjoying yourself when you attained such goal. And on a game of Tekken, just one opening can turn the tide, so that few skills that you have trained can win you a match, despite not learning everything. It won’t matter if you can’t low parry if you know pretty well when to crush, It won’t matter much about what what’s the optimal block punish if you’re better at making whiffs, etc.
I have to disagree with you. People can still pressure and net CH’s in a game with strong movement. Like I had no problem with pressuring people with Xiaoyu in DR. Nor did I have a problem crushing attacks with AoP or RDS d+1/d+2. But at the same time, I had the option to be able to back out of situations and see if my opponent could handle a long ranged / spacing / whiff punish game as well. So it definitely wouldn’t neutralize everything in the game if movement was faster… You just gotta be smart and not throw out moves to get whiff punished.
Apparently from before release they mentioned and showed screen shots of a lobby system similar to SCVs world lobby, if they could integrate a specific character tournament then it will probably boost people’s enthusiasm and knowledge of the game.
I think this is the only safe way to do it without destroying all of tekkens growth
People still fail to see that “clone characters” post Tekken 5 are pretty different ones than their original counterparts.
ie; Wang doesn’t play anything remotely close to Julia/Michelle; Ganryu and Jack aren’t even similar at all, as well Lee/Law and other examples. Cutting the roster (and the worked movesets) would not solve anything in the long run: scrubs would still complain about the game being “too hard” and the Tekken playerbase would be pissed about having their characters removed just for the hell of it.
People still fail to realize that the game is: 1] A Tag/Team game 2] A Dream-match - so having a huge roster helps the game being more varied, with more options.
T4 was awful for a good number of reasons, but one of the most prominent was the roster being dumbed down together with the movelists - even if the game was trying new stuff, TTT1 had more characters and way more options. Catering to a playerbase that doesn’t even care about Tekken to being with is a huge risk, considering that you can’t also cater to the Tekken playerbase at the same time. If you try to please both, you fail at pleasing everyone, delivering a “half-ass” product, without identity and/or focus.
KoF had 98/2002, with way more characters and similar ones to boot - why didn’t no one bitched at the time at the game? Oh, I see - that’s because it’s Tekken lulz
I’m done. If you have any huge issue with TTT2, just don’t play it - and wait for TxSF or whatever.
So Op wants tekken to be a scrub friendly button masher. Seriously the only thing i would change about tekken would be to done down the move list most characters have around 100 moves but usually 10 or less that are useful.
