Because SCV did a bad job doesn’t mean anyone else who tries will do a bad job too. An example of good movelist trimming is VF5FS. They also scrapped Multi Throw Escapes so there’s one less execution barrier in the way.
Not sure how saying “you should’ve played T6” to new players is good advice or helpful.
The article wasn’t about changing TTT2, it was about the inevitable next Tekken title and how it should cut some fat off instead of piling more on. Quality over quantity, less is more, etc.
Some people even think learning challenging things IS fun! :tup:
Also, mechanics such as Bound have allowed characters to have even more homogeneous playstyles. Almost every character has a collection of 10 or so go-to moves, which usually include a quick poke, a mid poke, a launcher, and a low poke. Their combos all follow the same flowchart (launcher->stuff->bound->more stuff->oki). The only thing making it harder now is the large roster and the character knowledge needed from that large roster; the characters themselves are much more straightforward and less execution heavy than they’ve ever been.
SF4 requires option selects, safe jumps, 1-2 frame links, vortexes, etc. Characters like Viper/Seth feel like they are in completely different games compared to Ryu/Sagat (at least Tekken characters all feel like they’re in the same game).
Marvel punishes you hard for making the slightest mistakes. It also requires strong movement skills, team-building, long combos, etc. Also, “easy” characters like Wolverine and Wesker are having a much harder time competing now since they have little variety in their gameplay compared to the more technical, but more rewarding characters such as Zero, Magneto, Viper, Dante, and, to an extent, Vergil.
Basically, Tekken is fine the way it is. They could try to make the movement less clunky and the juggles less prominent (two biggest complaints I hear about Tekken), but anything else might cause backlash from the fans and disinterest from the non-fans.
I agree with 100%
I think the tekken series just needs to have a different type of tekken game so that people can explore characters and styles they might really enjoy in a different setting fighter.
Capcom has the 3s series, standard sf4 series alpha series and vs series… you can even push it and say Dark stalkers too.
Tekken Tag 2 has long juggles and complicated movement and Tekken has had that ever since T3/TTT1. Tekken Tag 2 als has a HUGE fanbase (check tekkenzaibatsu for merely a glimpse) and Tekken has always had that popularity. In the European tourney scene, Tekken and SF are the most popular games. I’ve been going to the Dutch Tekken nationals since T5DR and the upcoming Tag 2 tourney this saturday has the most participants ever.
Nothing in Tag 2 is different from how the Tekken series was since a decade ago, and only now people are complaining about it’s difficulty? Because all other games have gotten so simple that Tekken is too much for you to handle?
Stop whining.
I dislike MvC3 (for my personal reasons - the game isn’t fun to me) - but a lot of people like the game, right? So each one to it’s own.
Plus, TTT1 is pretty different from T6/TTT2
For starters, lots of moves/proprieties/characters were different.
All the stages were infinite ones as well. The game was also a lot harder to pick up (and unforgiving: outside Changs, Ogres and Mishimas, you’d have a hard time to win with any other character).
Different series… different approaches and ways of dealing with… stuff, I guess.
Plus, TxSF is around the corner.
Bound helped low tiers characters a big deal. But what you do post B! isn’t a flowchart of sorts - since you can pretty much decide what you gonna use based on what you wanna get (wall carry, raw damage, oki or setups).
Count me in. I’d hate to see Ganny go - especially since he’s a pretty unique character since 5.
You’re using my words (on my quote way back then) outside it’s original context lol
T4 tried to do exact same thing you’re saying here now - the game flopped hard for a number of reasons. Simply put, the game died and TTT1 kept the scene alive.
The safest bet for a different approach on the series is TxSF. So let’s just wait.
Let’s not forget T4 had a few bad ideas like uneven floors.
Regardless, like T4 was bad and people went back to TTT1, if T7 turns not better than TTT2, wouldn’t the scene just go back to it?
Seriously, there’s no reason to play a worse game in the series just because it’s the new game. Give it a run, if it stinks, drop it and go back to the good one before you begin losing players. Or run both.
I don’t understand communities that didn’t do the above when they were faced with this.
T4 cut the roster in more than half too. After TTT1, a lot were displeased with this. TTT1 was a more solid/fun game overall too.
Dunno if T7 will be bad or not (I’m not a time traveller) - but TTT2 is a good game. If the sequel is awful/unplayable, there’s no shame at going back to an “older version”. Similar to people who still played Alpha 2 instead of 3.
I’m sure we agree on what we’re discussing, so there’s no reason to extend this out.
An even older example of going back to the older game is HF and SSF2. Hell ssf2 added 4 new characters but alot of players went back Hyper Fighting.
Couple of random thoughts in my head.
Fun is most certainly subjective. I love Marvel because it’s crazy and zany and has my favorite comic characters in it. That said, I have way more fun playing Tekken and Soul Calibur.
SRK being mostly a 2D game site might have something to do with the types of complaints that’re being made. I was just at a school game night thing with a bunch of people who were all casual gamers. Tekken, Marvel, and Smash were the only fighting game set ups. I played on the Tekken set up against a bunch of people and they all really enjoyed the game in spite of them not really knowing much about it. Didn’t really hear any complaints about it being too hard, didn’t hear anything about what should be done to make the game better, didn’t even see any salt. They came in on a clean slate and just had fun.
Someone coming in with 2D fighters on their plate might look at it a bit different. The fundamentals that they’ve built will carry over, but because the medium their playing in being different might make things frustrating. Learning how to back dash, wave dash, side step, poke, and punish are things that are up in their head ready to use, but having to do something completely different than what their used to, like set the stick to neutral or crouch down back and so on could easily be frustrating, not necessarily because of the practice needed to perfect it, but because of the need to practice it in the first place and not just do what they’re used to doing.
Like when I play Soul Calibur for a while, and then go to Tekken, my mind’ll still be in SC mode for a while, so I’m still pressing G to guard, trying to roll on the ground with the directional buttons and all that, and then getting upset with having to step back and remember what the way that’s supposed to go down.
I dunno. It may just be me spittin’ crazy stuff without any basis, but it’s whatever.
Tekken has something for both casual and hardcore players. Both groups enjoy playing the game, so you won’t get many complaints from either group. You will only get complaints from the people who want to move from casual to hardcore, because it’s a lot harder to do that in Tekken compared to Capcom games. This means a lot of them just won’t bother, resulting in lower turnout in tournaments and a lower rate of pros crossing over from other games to Tekken.
As far as I can tell, the competitive Tekken community is cool with that. They aren’t particularly interested in growing their community and are satisfied with tournament attendance as it is. Players who don’t want to memorize strings, learn frame data or practice movement are not welcome to join the party. So really it seems to me that there’s no problem at all.
Movement is significantly weaker in T6. Guess what? People complained that it’s too random since anything can happen when you’re always close to your opponent.
Movement is hard because it basically neutralize every mechanic in the game. Can’t use mixups when you’re spaced, can’t counterhit anything, can’t punish anything, can’t crush anything, throws are out of range, projectiles are useless… It’s hard for a reason.
Can i get a tekken 1 remake , where it was like a Boxng matching n spacing and getting in with your few big hits…You know normal tekken… hoping if they do make tekken vs sf that its similar to the first tekkens, just want a back dash to be a back dash a side step a side step,No fadcxxultra 2 to have to move your char around, no kankle weights . no bounds or juggle madness…As for tekken as it is now, they should just let it be, rebooting it would only anger there audience , better to just create another franchise… I enjoy tekken tag 2 my only gripe is i think the rage system is fucking dumb and the guy should have written a 4000 page article about that shit and being able to get it over and over in a match when it was fucking dumb in t6 when you were low on life.
its shitty to lose to rage and it shitty to win with rage…it steals the whole Fun thing for me,even whenn it gives me wins, i know i did not deserve…i power up and glow and now my 3 hits take poor guys 75% of life for kicking my ass LOL
Also no one ever came up with the link to this fucking tekken nation of 5000 people strong playing the Korean or Australian or any wheres EVO equivalent , when they keep sayng there some huge tekken nation some where… i thinking mofoz are adding just because Asians are still willing to dump quarters into machines where Americans stopped in 1996 , i was 16 at the time and watched all the arcade machines vanish, they were every where before that, they all realized they could just buy the game for 50 $ why feed the machines quarters anymore and common sense killed the arcades here in America
You can reduce the pure memorization needed in Tekken WITHOUT dumbing the game down. I’m sure that’s what MAGUS1234 would like as well. Removing all the moves that are useless at high level play will NOT harm the game. Making a smaller roster will ALSO not harm the game,IF DONE RIGHT. Virtua Fighter and Guilty Gear both can have a ton of variety with 20+ characters, so Tekken doesn’t need 60. It only needs to design each of these 20 characters better so they can CONTAIN all the shit you had with 60 characters.
I’m just saying using T4 as a counterpoint isn’t much proof that slimming the roster was bad since there were other problems people had with the game.
Sorry sir but I disgress, let me explain.
First case: Lei, Steve and others. They naturally have larger movelist, but all of the moves are iconic to them. Just cut off one stance or a couple of moves will not only hurt them, they will be less fun to play.
Second case: Tenstrings are something casuals enjoy, even if they suck at a competitive level, casuals see the flashiness of it, kinda like how supers are flashy and cool looking. The other moves are there too… Remember Miguel’s UNBLOCKABLE??? I dare you to deoete that…
Third case: People LOVE their characters. People stick to their characters. There’s no way to do it right. You kick out a character, you kick out the players. I dare you to cut wang after that TTT2 ending. I also dare you to cut AK, Anna, Paul, Baek, Ogre and especially Jun, Kuni and Michelle… You can’t cut each one.
yes, ttt2’s roster is large because its not part of the canon. fyi, not being canon allows namco to include deceased or otherwise removed characters from the official story without having to provide a valid explanation for their inclusion. that in turn, allows the dream-match team-based tekken to have more character variety AND more possible selectable teams, therefore delivering a more fulfilling gaming experience. i dunno what you want me to tell you. those are the reasons why they’re there. shrugs
also, you wrote “i have no issue with ttt2 existing in it’s current form”, but you are clearly criticizing the game at the same time for having a burdening “million characters”. those are your exact words. you’re everywhere and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. whatever, its irrelevant to the point you’re trying (poorly) to make.
first of all, tekken has NOT played the same for years. that’s simply not true at all.
namco attempted to take the series in a new direction after the babies whined about TTT1 with T4. the scrubs were in upheaval after TTT1 stating that the game was a turtle-fest-backdash-all-day-runaway-game-blah-blah-blah. namco listened, and responded with a new system in T4 which introduced walls, uneven levels, obstacles, position change, sidewalk, and a general gameplay engine that forced a more close-ranged fight (backdash cancel was virtually gone, but a few characters had alternatives that provided a similar function, but overall spacing via movement was nerfed). because of the way the system was designed, T4’s gameplay was DRASTICALLY simplified from its predecessors. i mean DRASTICALLY with a capital D. you can ask anyone who played T4 and previous tekkens for a comparison. now here’s what the reception of T4 was…IT FLOPPED. T4 is very well known for being the worst tekken of the entire series sans a very small few who preferred it.
namco listened, and responded with changes in T5, bringing back a lot of traditional tekken gameplay, but kept walls and sidewalk from T4…but the real difference with T5, especially over T4, was the introduction of the crush system. it really polished up the system to where the game made sense and was a vast improvement not only over T4, but previous tekkens as well. the game’s reception…HUMONGOUS SUCCESS (6 mil copies sold)…spawning 3(?) versions of the game.
now, you and others are suggesting namco produce a future tekken installment with a smaller movelist and a smaller roster in order to appeal to a wider audience. here’s my argument AGAINST that approach to achieve that goal…its been done already and has failed. T4 had 19 characters (which i personally don’t have a problem with, but am stating to prove a point), and a very simplified system that was implemented in part because of scrub whining. the movelist wasn’t compressed, but was effectively smaller because most moves were rendered completely useless because of the games’ system. result…FAILED GAME. T6, while not as successful as T5 (mainly because of criticisms centered around rage and bound), was still received WAY better than T4. if you guys want to play your idea of an improved tekken, guess what, its already been done. you can play T4 amongst yourselves and have a jolly ole time. but the franchise has a PROVEN better formula of success that does NOT revolve around simplifying the system, but rather polishing up and building upon what makes tekken great, while eliminating what made it lousy. the proof is already in the pudding, you guys are just late to the party.
lets face it and be honest, you guys are essentially suggesting a future tekken installment take a step back in terms of gameplay, quality, replayability, and depth in order to attract sf4/marvel3/CoD players. i remember back when T5 was released, all the sf (cvs2 at the time) and marvel2 players picked up the game NO PROBLEM and played the hell out of it. NONE of them bitched and moaned at T5’s movelists and some got real good at the game. so i wonder what the difference is now with today’s sf and marvel players? hmmm. take a wild guess. when T4 had its chance, that game got pushed aside for better games by the same crowd a dumbed-down tekken would attempt to attract. you guys need to take an informed, objective look at things and realize your perspective on the direction the series should go has been done already and IT DOESN’T WORK.
namco shouldn’t and doesn’t need to water-down a future tekken installment to make it more accessible because, 1. tekken is already accessible to anyone who wants to play and learn the game and, 2. the series already sells better than other fg franchises. it would be stupid for namco to deviate from an already successful developmental formula to appeal to the casual gamer who’s gonna purchase the game anyway, albeit for novelty reasons, but will abandon the game after three months (if even that) when darksiders3 or some shit is released. that’ll only serve to leave behind a group of players who genuinely like tekken, support the series, want to play and improve at it, but have minimal interest because the installment sucks and the playerbase that the game was designed for isn’t even interested in the game anymore. it’s just stupid no matter how you try to slice it.
well the bonus is the market is saturated…after Netherrealms injustice i dont see much more fighting games coming out this gen as the sales are getting low…so yes alot move on to each no Fg give it a sec then move on, it will end and people will come back as there will be a dry spell, this gen was and is packed with games and it came on fast an has peaked Dead or alive is up there in a chart i seen with TT2 on first 2 week sales in japan, even a bit more , if i remember what i saw
I find it funny only time the word saturate is around in the fighting game community is when Capcom is making fighting games.