What’s the data on mashing LP mixer/run mixer as opposed to just the single hits? I know the mash version of LP mixer is worse than -2 on block.
I had a blast with Rashid and I hope he does not get toned down as bad as beta 1 cast.
The highlight of the beta for me was this match
Rashid is a friend indeed, I already miss him ;(
the first thing I did when I got into the beta was test the safety of moves, I never used that move outside punishing fireballs and I usually did V skill jump > spike for that anyway.
Yea, so I believe it’s clear that Rashid was only good the way he was being played because people didn’t know they could punish his stuff or even counterhit a throw after blocked lp spin with a 3-6 frame normal? (Throws have 5 frame start up and Rashid is -2 = 6 frames to counterhit him if Rashid goes for a throw)
I got away with almost all rolls/fireball enhanced rolls in to pressure, and I saw a lot of Rashids doing eagle spike and divekick without getting punished. At least the way he has been played so far is not going to work more than a short while.
I really think he might need some buffs now actually.
I felt kinda the same way. Most of the time i was getting away with murder, because people didnt know the character. Its understandable with it being beta.
Against people who understood , it was a different story.
Lp mixer, while being safe, leaves you in a bad situation. You cant press a button after because you will get beat every time, and if you dont you will get thrown because it leaves you point blank.
Same for goes for F+mp.
Eagle strike and his fireball are both punishable.
I felt like i didnt have a good option to cancel into in a lot of situations.
Wasnt untill the last day that i found a different option. Mixer has 3 levels you can mash after.
No mash left me in the situation above, full mash = get rekt. The level 2 mash has better push back and was still safe.
This was great because it pushed me out of throw range if blocked. Made it so they had to either attack straight away to take advantage of the -frames, or walk forward to throw, which i could react to. If they just mashed throw it would wiff leaving them open.
hm LP spinning mixer is -2 on block , and LK eagle spike -20 ?!!? than we should end up combo with LP SM if our Bnb combo is being blocked , and do LK ES if it hits?
Still room to do mixer for both, since the knockdown on mashing mixer out is closer and sets up meaty tornadoes. Spike does more damage and would be worth it in the corner maybe where you aren’t losing your positioning as much. Pros and cons for both.
I don’t think his frames are so bad overall, some of the stuff we were getting away with won’t work long term of course. But there’s still room to come up with new strategies as well.
Yeah I think there is still room for real mixer mixups. I mean you know when its going to end. Also the first hit of mixer can hit slighlty meaty changing the frame data. I was getting a lot of people with mixer (blocked) st.lk (cH), St.mp. for instance.
I think just some of the more gimmicky stuff will be figured out.
You might be right that we can find string that will make lp spin safer!
Hitconfirming with Rashid is ez ez ez, don’t need to go into spinning mixer at all on block, end at a + on block normal and frame trap.
Frame traps were broken in the beta because everyone was just mashing crouching jab, I won most of my games doing an “infinite combo” jump in j.MK > 5MP (hit or block doesn’t matter) > 2MK (unblockable in beta) xx LP spinning mixer over and over til the round is won.
Once people start actually blocking, pressure Rashid’s pressure game will be much more interesting, using different normals for frame traps and throws/the overhead will become more important.
If the first hit of mixer is meaty, is the LAST hit meaty? That is what would be important for that situation.
HK fireball xx roll is really good in pressure when you can do it, though, +6, EX fireball is even more +, somewhere around +10 I think
Not sure what you mean by this, only one of them is gonna hit meaty obviously, and I’m not sure how you’d safely time the last hit to meat that criteria.
The short spin is already only -2 on block, and if it hits from further out MAYBE even better? I think that’s the original gist of what FMR and Sim were saying. I’m just not sure what normal you’d use for that. You can’t cancel into spin from his longer reaching normals, and cr.mk doesn’t seem like it’d provide the proper range. Practice mode still works on PC though, so we could test it.
I tried testing it. It doesn’t look possible.
The thing about landing LP.Mixer at a distance, however, is that counterpoke jab by the defender is going to whiff, which allows any followup normal you do to tag it during recovery. That’s usually what happens when you do cr.MK xx Mixer on block.
However, if you run into someone using a 5 frame far-reaching option (Karin’s s.MP, for instance) there’s nothing you can do about it. Your offense will end at Mixer every time.
The best thing to do is trap with EX.Shot if you wanna keep offense going. I’m sure there’s some fun traps with HK.Shot as well.
I mean will it hit with a hitbox other than it’s first active one, leading to more frame advantage. I would have thought that even if the first hit is kind of late, the last one is going to be the same? But maybe it just works completely differently to how I expect it to, I might actually test it.
EDIT: Yeah the timing of the first hit doesn’t seem to matter at all, seems to always be -2 to me, unless you actually hit the last hit meaty but that’s quite difficult to do and there are so many better moves to do it with. At a range where you could feasibly get a + on block spinning mixer I would much rather 5HK or 6MP, but it seems it can be + (not very though, each individual hit doesn’t seem to have a long active period) so it’s a tool we have I guess.
I was never able to get a + Spinning Mixer, so I’m not sure if it’s actually viable.
Also, multihitting attacks never confer advantage if the first hit is meaty. If the followup hits land cleanly, they hit during their initial active frames.
We should have frame data on wind enhanced spinner;) Seems around 0. full screen corner carry… Imagine if someone found a way to get that without v-trigger
I am definitely able to counterhit on multiple recordings, but the spacing is EXTREMELY specific making me think only the very last active frame could only be +1, I can get trades a lot easier.
And your second question is the thing that confused me when they mentioned the first hit timing changing frame data and is why I initially asked the question.
EDIT: I’ll test V trigger mixer
EDIT2: Yep, LP mixer through wind seems to be exactly ±0
Now, would you say 1 ex bar is worth full screen 0 on block, or knock down on hit, corner carry?
I think Rashid really shines with his corner pressure, so I think so. I will see if I can upload a video I made during beta later.
I think the spin from the run also has better frame data like the one through v-trigger? Maybe that can be used to get in instead.
I tested that a while ago and I’m pretty sure it is -2 just like the normal one, I wasn’t super thorough though.
Experimenting with V-Reversals. Rashid’s can be punished by grabs if you’re not careful: