Random s\d thread

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
121

I gotta experiment with that orbs/ bomb tagout . Awhile ago I used it on one guy’s sentinel just randomly and it didn’t work so I kinda lost faith in it, but never got a chance to or remembered to use it against anyone else. Mannn shoult you know way too much about Strider.

Speaking of the bomb… If you fast forward the following KillerKai vs. Jwong clip to about 1:40, Jwong airdashes in and Kai drops a short bomb to stop him cold. Then i’m not sure what happens but it looks like Jwong was expecting the bomb and INTENTIONALLY HK’d the bomb to make it explode. Has this ever happened to any of you while fighting an experienced player? It kinda makes me wonder if short bombs should always be followed with orbs just in case stuff like that happens. I only orb up after the bomb to to stop air-based rushes 50% of the time, and this video makes me think it might be a good idea to cancel the short bomb into orbs more frequently. Or maybe Wong just got lucky. Tell me what you think:

[media=youtube]ttOCnw1Y9Pw[/media]

122

i use that all day

it’s really useful even with crappy characters.

always cover ur bombs with orbs imo, unless u had drones backing you up to begin with

and those drones also HAVE to do their job in this imagined scenario and allow ur strider to move into a good position after the bomb.

most people won’t counter your bombs properly(they’ll get blown up typically), but those aren’t the guys you need to keep in mind.

u need bar to keep it airtight as ur comp gets better vs the bomb hitboxes

loc, i was reading your post at the top of the page and i want to comment. Even if the dood ur fighting was trained by clockw0rk, if your defense is top notch, you’re going to intimidate anyone that you play. Thats the best part about strider imo, the better your defense gets, the more free pressure you’re allowed. that in turn butters the whole damn match, the longer you can block the more bar you’re building and juicing. the longer you keep that d up the better. counter hits will fall into your lap when you show ur opponent that he has to not only wait thru ur orb patterns, but break your defense when he finally does get in. I absolutely hate strider in this game because of the shitty hand that i feel he was dealt, no actual team for him. how the fuck thats possible in a game this big, i don’t know. If you’re going to play with a team so fundamentally flawed, you need godlike defense.

123

lol. Man I played nothing but ssd, scd, and s\d\capcom for literally 7 months straight NOTHING ESLE. Thats how you get the knowledge. Ontop of that, I watched every clockw0rk and kaising video I could get my hands on.

bomb+tag doesn’t work on sent. He’s just so damn tall.

orb sequence plays a vital role on wether or not it’ll work right. You gotta know how orbs work and what ring patterns are safe.

about the vid

when the bomb has the parachute around it, thats the time when it can be taken out. I’m sure all of magnus’ moves can stop it. Storms fp. AA’s like psy\cyke\cable and capcom if you get in the right position for him. IMO, its rather risky to actually take it out with your point character unless you’re confident about it. Mistakes can happen or you’ll time it wrong and now you just ate 25% life from the bomb and if you have orbs, it’ll combo under the right circumstances which totals up to about 50% life. The risk to reward factor is never in the opponents favor for attempting that.

however, if you do find someone who’s willing to take out the bomb and they’re killing you because of it. Throw it out and let them take it out. Whenever they throw the move thats suppose to take out the bomb, launch that bitch. LK bomb has more lag time than rh bomb so if you want to launch, you gotta time it pretty good. Training mode it.

or you can always unblockable bomb them if they’re in the right position. Striders unblockables are just stupid. Well, I don’t really know if its considered unblockable by most but thats what I call it.

124

Josh Wigfall’s Magneto vs. My Strider/Tron

He was air dashing running away, thinking he was going to air dash downforward soon

I popped out a LK bomb and activated Orbs without Sentinel or Tron.
He sj toward me, air dash downforward, hit my bomb with HP and landed to throw me while I was in orbs

it was not fun

125

Just to clarify, that’s a bird Justin kicked. Not a bomb.

126

as much as i love posting here and as much of some new things i’ve learned by reading people’s posts especially shoultz … I think its time I graduated from asking advice and now play team clockwork hardcore and hopefully we won’t meet at majors my fellow S/D players because I won’t mirror match you, but most likely pick MSP or Matrix or Magneto/Cable/Doom (which somehow works for me) but team clockwork all the way unless I face another strider player. Possibility I’ll go to evo for fun and I’ve always wanted to visit the surrounding areas over there assuming its at the same location.

Thanks for all the advice to get me started, keep err clock’in i guess

127

kaising rapes this thread!!

I assumed that he saw it was a bomb. Watching the video knocking the bomb as it coming out on the screen is impossible.

s\d boiled down is basically theory marvel. If this then try this, then this or this etc… Its that kind of team. Since strider can’t hit kill 1 a character yet, his strats\gameplay\combos will always be evolving to another level. There will always be something to learn. I think of start rick here or there during the day and take it training mode and it always leads to new options for strider.

I wish clock\kai would post some of their top tier shit since they’ve won against top players. Maybe some new shit they’ve been thinking\working on?

honestly, the gurus should be the ones regulating this thread instead of me. My knowledge compared to theres isn’t even close.

128

what a crock of shit shotz, you’ve innovated more set-ups with strider doom in the past year than anyone i’ve seen helping out around on the forums.

i’d bet money that you have set-ups that even the top 2 don’t(kai and clock)

explain the details of the dog reset fully if you would then kind sir…

129

oops my bad. Thanks for the correction. I just thought it was a bomb because I saw in your other vids that you drop the bomb to stuff aerial rushes ( like the one vs. josh wigfall). At least, you do so more than other Strider players I’ve seen and that sets apart your play. Plus Strider’s animation for calling out the bird was not visible because the screen was on Magneto and the explosion lead me to think it was a bomb, but birds explode too when they are destroyed. Silly me

130

Believe me, if i was actually thinking logically during the match, i might have actually used the bomb. But Justin was the first player in a long time who forced me to play like i was scared. The fact that he planned his whole offense by predicting what was going through my head (correctly may I add), really impressed me. Not to mention that I knew he didn’t plan on taking me lightly at all given everything else that happened that weekend.

Still, that match with Justin really opened my eyes and made me see how mind games and trying to manipulate your opponent’s moves can take your game to a whole new level. I became a much smarter player ever since watching that match again, which was crucial in helping me compensate for my weaker execution at last year’s evo from my injury and rust.

Random Stuff:
Here’s some resets with Cyke I used to do. After connecting a ground hit, call cyke, wave dash twice. From here, you can throw a bird or activate orbs.

With the bird, it will cross up. If they block it, they land right next to you and you have initiative to attack them again in blockstun. If they get hit, they’ll get knocked up a little. You can dash underneath if you want into a crossup, launch into an air combo ending with the rocket thing. It does some pretty decent damage.

Now if you choose to activate orbs, depending on how far you dash before you activate it, it can become an ambiguous crossup as they are landing after getting hit by cyke. It looks very ambiguous with Magneto and Storm. There are a bunch of details i’m forgetting since I stopped playing around with fancy shit during my matches. That and I don’t have access to a console anymore and rarely ever touch Strider/Cyke anymore. But it’s something fun to play with. Does decent damage too.

For the most part, a lot of the setups I use in matches nowadays, I can’t even recall from memory. They sort of “just happen” in the heat of the moment. I try to do things efficiently and logically instead of fucking around as much. One thing leads to another, and then it turns into something special. :slight_smile:

131

Is there any reason in particular you stopped playing Strider/Cyclops/Doom? It was actually the first Strider team I picked up a year and a half ago because I didn’t want to learn Sentinel with the intent to make it my main. I still use it as a backup team though, cuz of its use against rushdown + annoying sents. Problem is Cyke doesn’t do as well on point as Sent and has less options. Since you have a lot of experience with the team, did you ever get good results from starting Cyclops? I start him against Storms and Sentinels to build meter and chip with cyke/ doom but the Magnetos in my area kill him off in about 10 sec and Cyke vs. Cable IMO is an impossible match. This leads to my larger question: Do you see Strider/Cyclops/Doom as an alternative to Sent/Strider/Doom, with Cyclops being more than an Anti Air and a character in his own right? Or is it simply a Strider/Doom/ Anti air squad like Strider/Doom/Commando? This is assuming that Cyclops is played to his potential, of course

132

I stopped using Strider/Cyke/Doom under the advice of Jon Sindel at MWC 2004 (you florida guys really need to thank him for me on that since i haven’t seen him since) and Blaziniflo. My Strider and Cyke were both hanging, but my matches were lasting too long. This gave more opportunities for minor mistakes that resulted in some rather disappointing upsets. So that’s when I started playing Sent/Strider/Doom religiously. I would bust out Strider/Cyke/Doom for the first time a few months later against some MSP’s and Combofiend as it works very well against those teams. And surprisingly, playing Sent/Strider/Doom made my Strider/Cyke/Doom even better, as I got to see Strider’s options from another angle. But the second someone builds a team around Sentinel, you may find some problems. I would start cyclops whenever the other guy had Cable second or Magneto first. If I fought team row, I’d start cyke. And yes, the team works as you now have an option to have cyke sweep everything off the ground any time you want, allowing strider to regain ground control of the match. Today, I don’t use that team because my Sentinel and my Strider have reached a level where it’s rare when I need to use cyclops.

Oh, and here’s my philosphy on how to improve your Strider. This is of course my personal opinion based on my own experience. All of you out there may have seen stuff I haven’t seen, so don’t let this discourage you from doing what you feel still works for you:

Years ago, I was playing around with a lot of stuff with Strider. Resets, new combos, you name it. I always came into every tournament with something new or ridiculous. I’d try a lot of stuff that Clockw0rk never did while Clock would stick with most of the same stuff while adding a few innovations every now and then. I probably performed a lot more combos, resets, and setups than Clock ever did too. Yet Clock was still the guy winning tournaments. Why? Because Clock had a different reason to do the stuff he does in matches. Sure, his stuff may look all pretty to most people. hell, i enjoy watching his stuff too. But he doesn’t do it because it looks nice. He does it because it WORKS and it’s EFFECTIVE. I later found out Clock already knew about a lot of the stuff I would do long before I did them. But he just never needed to do them. That and a lot of them were pretty stupid.

This brings me to improving your strider. Most strider players will hit a certain point where they’ve got plenty of setups and plenty of combos that will get the job done. At this point, I believe that the trick to getting to the next level isn’t so much as building up your arsenal of setups and resets and combos. It’s more about how effectively you can use what you already got by gaining match experience and building up your execution and consistency.

Strider is that type of character who we all know is fucked when he makes that one mistake. But that’s where the cutoff is made. The difference between a strider who places well in tourneys and a strider who does well in casual but can’t win in tourneys is that a Strider who does well in tourneys is someone who can fight several consecutive matches without making that one mistake. It’s about how long you can continue to control the pace of the match and shut out most your opponents options, leaving him with few to pick from.

So in closing, I’ll end with a few thoughts
Be simple, yet efficient
Use what works
Feel free to be innovative, but don’t forget your goals.
Keep doing it

hope this is helpful to everyone. Keep up the good work and good luck! :slight_smile:

133

I thought I came up with the xup bird activation trick. Its hard to tell if what i’m fucking around with is new or not. I’m sure i’m just discovering things on my own that you and clock probably already know. By the way, that setup is all I use now. That xup it gives you is just fucking retarded and with the right setup its safe as fuck. 50\50 reactivation schemes are just retarded.

know any double orb patterns? I know the one on sent and the one devil x came up with but i’m really wondering if there is a double orb pattern from the re-jump orbs?

your strider theory post is beastly and it makes sense. Being effective rather than stylish is the way to go but i’m torn on that. Should I go for something basic and effective or complex and effective? usually the basic stuff doesn’t add to much life for a setup but theres less oppurtunity to fuck up and its more than likely going to be safe. When you go to complex and effective, you can add a little more depth and punishment to the basics to make the basics that much more effective but theres usually execution risks that can kill you. However, the complex stuff will usually do more life and if strider needs every possible hit to be effective, wouldn’t you want to maximize his damage potential from every hit?

a few months ago, I thought strider rejump orbs was pretty complex. Now that i’ve practiced it hard since then, its damn near impossible for me to miss. Whats basic and complex is always going to change. Where exactly is the line @ for doing toooo much with strider?

Strider can play basic and be effective but can he really win w\o maximizing damage? its not every game that I do 100% assist while pinning the opponent @ the same time off one bar or i’ll land my 50\50 reactivation patterns for 80% life on point but when I do, I win w\ ease. If I could maximize damage potential 100% of the time and not fuck up, whats wrong with doing that? can I even try to realisitically look @ that concept and suggest that its even possible to do all the time?

134

I never really tried a lot of double orb patterns. The one Devil X did is actually pretty new to me.

When you come up with something that looks interesting but wonder if it’s worth doing, ask yourself this. Can you do it consistently? What can your opponent do about it? And if you fuck it up or if it doesn’t work on your opponent, what kind of position does it put you in?

135

hmm, I can work with that. thnx.

136

stopping guard cancels

this actually took me quite a few months to really get right so don’t get frustrated if you can’t figure it out. I still fuck it up from time to time anyway.

One of the most common things for any player to stop s\d is to pushblock. Striders trap cannot be guard cancelled when you do it right. It could be the tightest trap in the game. Pushblocking is fine however its the guard cancel that becomse a problem. When someone attempts to guard cancel, they’re forced to go to neutral for a little bit. This means that you can go low for free. It usually takes about 1 second for guard cancel to become active so if you keep strider w\in a 1 second dash, c.lk range, you can pop them for a launcher everytime they want to guard cancel your shit. once your start making them pay for guard cancels, you can start working in extra trap patterns and instant overheads into you game and just work out the entire option tree.

theres 2 things that can cost you the game here.

  1. if they guard cancel, and get mobile you’ve lost your trap advantage but you gain the next move advantage which can lead into another trap pattern. If you play it right here, you should never lose however, no one is perfect so it happens to everyone sometime.

  2. they guard cancel and smack the assist and pin\hit you with something. Game over. The best way to actually deal with this is really learn that 1 second range. If your 1 second window is gone, you still have the advantage to reposition for another string. If you reposition and expect the right assist, AA’s in most cases, you can deal some fast life to that AA.

make them pay for guard cancels by brain fucking them.

side note: guard cancel only lasts for so long, even if they get it off and you pin them with doom, they’ve lost guard cancel and they have to try to get it off again. It can give you multiple times to actually do something.

I guess that can be considered a low risk strat because of the mobility options you have afterwards but you can lose if you don’t know what you’re doing. Its pretty effective when you do it right though. You want them to try to guard cancel so you can play all the advantage you have from it.

137

Sorry Shoult, you lost me when you were talking about how players who pushblock against the trap tend to go to neutral before the super jump motion?

Just wondering Shoult, when you were talking about changing Strider to a “one-hit” kill Strider, is it possible you’ve intended to have the double orb combo in there as well?

138

To guard cancel something you have to go to neutral. This means that you can hit them low for free all day.

one hit kill strider is still out of my reach so i’m using any and all options strider has. So yea, i’m learning the double orb stuff. One hit kill strider to me is anything that will allow that.

139

option tree to gain better scenarios

option tree is when you’re able to do something, what options do you have from it. If you attack someone, what else can you do after initial attack. When you block, what options do you have to get out. Should you guard cancel, pushblock, block out alpha counter etc… thats option tree. It even goes as far as being hit option tree because of resets and the like.

when strider activates his orbs, his option tree is there all branched out. He can setup for another trap, bait a guard cancel to setup for an AA punish or hit the point, go for 50\50 during orbs with instant overhead, call doom early to reposition later in orbs just to name a few, tag, dash your opponent into the corner…

what I mean by using option tree to gain better scenarios is to anticipate what your opponent may do, then you use your option tree to safely stop all those options which strider can do. You won’t know all the time but if you anticipate everything they might try and figure out a way to prevent all those things from happening, its just as good.

for instance, if your opponent is thinking about alpha countering during your orb reps, find an option that strider has to stop that. On every AA except for cyke, strider can bait that AA with c.lk, c.fp, c.rh and if the person alpha counters after the c.lk, strider will dodge that AA. In the event that they alpah counter cap, strider trips him right out of capcom’s alpha.

or you can throw a bomb out there from full screen and go for a cheap pin. If they alpha early to avoid the chip, they’ll alpha into the bomb. This strat works against any character thats not sent\jugg\bh.

thats option tree. The scenario is that the opponent is trying to alpha counter me in the middle of my trap to stop me or land a free hit on strider. I see it coming so use options strider has to prevent that scenario from happening to me.

in most offensive scenarios, he’ll usually have an option that the opponent won’t be able to do shit about @ that period in time. Say in you catch the opponent AA in the assit kill dhc setup, you do 65% to the AA off one bar and reposition around the point. That person will probably think twice about calling it out for a while and if they do call it kill him @ all costs. Now that AA is limited because its bleeding, you now have other options like a double dooom rep and your opponent being more careful and less agressive. Granted that 1 strategy work on all people but there are good general ones that the most of the communitity seem to follow. Punishing assists seems to be one of those things that will make the majority of the communitity back off or @ least approach you diffrerently.

strider virtually has no help in the defensive aspect of his option tree. If you spam doom, you run the risk of him being counter called and having life done to him as well as strider being rushed down. If sent gets hurt, he’ll be beat up to bad to actually use him for a quick barrier and reposition. The best defensive option is to block and use your assists properly to get out safely. Striders offensive options are so good that once you get started, you can easily stay away from trouble while maintaing good pressure. All though the nature of strat is offensive, your using his great offense as your defensive tool. Once your mobile, strider can do anything.

140

Against players that have super armor, you can substitue the c. lk for a c. hk.
c. hk is 7 frames, so it’s not so bad against the c. lk’s 3 frames