2009 is fine too. Maybe we can get enough of us at evo 2008 to make it major like aside from having a lot of people. I know a couple guys who could record the matches, and if you dont mind us having our final four~eight on the bigscreen saturday that would be cool.
On a side note it would be nice if people could not sounds like ass holes ALL THE TIME. There are a lot of posts from GG haters that are fucking up. Seriously, say something productive or dont say anything at all. Though this whole thread seems dumb anyway. Not to say that there are some GG players that dont sound rediculous but, come on.
inkblot, thank you very much for the explanation!
Guilty Gear players do tend to participate in more of the side events than others, Iâve noticed, so I can definitely understand this element.
But I will say that Evo is not as efficiently run as it could be - not that it would make a difference this year, but just in general. Take DQsâŚmy friend Keits, an experienced tournament organizer & director, uses the following system:
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Require players to tell the staff if theyâre going to the bathroom or doing something else important.
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If someoneâs missing and he didnât let you know, check to see if heâs in another tourney.
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If neither of these is the case, DQ on the spot!
Sure, you run the risk of knocking out a top player and creating a shitstorm of drama, but thereâs a greater message to be sent here. From what I understand, your long-term goal is to professionalize the scene; if thatâs the case, then you will have to force the community to act more professionally, and that includes general punctuality as well as the more serious cases which have been discussed ad nauseum. Establishing that for the long-term is well worth the risk, IMHO.
Another issue is that you still use paper brackets; maximum efficiency will never be possible as long as these remain. Tournament Maker is excellent software and itâs awfully surprising that the biggest & most professional event has not fully embraced it; do you just not have enough laptops available to run it?
Anyway, back on topic, GGXX side tourney at Evo is probably the best thing you can do - show the entire FGC how far youâve come! And PLEASE DO COMMENTARY FOR TOP 8 - Melty Blood does this at majors and it makes the game way more fun.
Best of luck,
Josh.
So obviously the problem the Evo staff has with Guilty Gear is not with the game itself but with the attitude (or at least the perceived attitude) of it itâs community.
Some of that perceived attitude is from last yearâs finals, and some of it is from posters on srk who (might have good intentions) but are completely coming off the wrong way and doing more bad than good. I actually have to agree with some of the âantiâ Guilty Gear posters in this thread. Some of us really do sound like whiny little kids who think Evo owes us something. And unfortunately these immature and minority opinions (clayton) seem to drown out the more reasonable opinions (render) which are actually more representative of the community as a whole.
So can we please stop arguing with Evo staff, stop pointing fingers, and stop guessing at possible reasonâs why GG wasnât included this year. None of this is helping us and a lot it is just making things worse.
Mr. Wizard and Jchen both seemed pretty optimistic of GGâs chances to be included next year, so the best thing we can do is just keep throwing tournaments and show up at Evo this year and represent.
And finally⌠please stop making this into Guilty Gear vs CvS2. CvS2 is a great game and needs to be in Evo. Spend your effort hyping Guilty Gear instead of trying to kill CvS2 (or any other game for that matter).
wiz said cvs2 had more people last year because gg was teams
Same disclaimer that came with my blog post: donât read the following comment as any sort of indication as to why GGXXAC was not included, Iâm just commenting from my personal viewpoint as a gamer and an attendant of Evo, not as a staffer.
I would agree with you in large part with the above statement, but the main issue I saw was that not only did 9 out of 11 players not show up on time for the Finals last year, but no one else came to watch it either. During the GG finals, I intentionally looked around the room to find as many of the hardcore GG players that I could, and I did not see many. Again, time is not a factor as I already mentioned in my blog post that when Tekken was at 11:00 in the morning (also in Vegas), the Tekken community came out in droves to watch their finals and were loud and hype and everything (which is probably one of the main reaasons why it got moved from 11:00 in the morning to the 2nd last game of the night). It doesnât matter what time Tekken is at, their players came out and supported the game.
By contrast, the Guilty Gear Finals from last year were barely louder than the Virtua Fighter Finals. So I wouldnât call it the action of a âfewâ players. From my perspective, many many many people from the community were to blame. Especially since FlashMetroid was taking down Japanese players in a game that has been notorious for Japanese domination. Thatâs some hype shit, but I didnât feel it. I wanted to though.
(Okay, end spectator mode and return to Staff Member ModeâŚ)
Also, to comment on your statement that people would be happier going to a side tourney for GG on the same weekend as Evo but at a different location than to actually try throwing something in the BYOC: thatâs part of the problem (not the GG communityâs fault or Evoâs fault). There is this bizarre animosity that has seemed to develop between Evo and Guilty Gear that is largely fabricated, but is now a definite trait in the relationship. And itâs caused by some weird Catch-22 loop. Guilty Gear players would probably prefer to have a tourney separate from Evo as a means by which to show up Evo or to boycott it as protest (this is what Iâm reading from comments, please correct me if I am waaaaay off base). And itâs that kind of behavior that leads to the feelings that Evo has crawled âhand and feetâ to help the community with no appreciation. Which makes the GG community believe more that Evo has it in for the GG community and the cycle continues.
I donât know how the animosity started or where it came from, but it would definitely benefit everyone if the animosity ended. Evo is not an easy ship to run, and tough decisions have to be made. This year, it was dropping GG. There is no denying that ANY community would be just as angry as the GG community would be if they were dropped, but I can honestly say that the GG community would be by far the most spiteful.
Boycotting Evo is not the answer. I hate to sound like Iâm just advertising Evo, but I honestly think the right answer is to run a Major Tournament for GG at Evo. Itâs a start to reversing the cycle of animosity (god, do I sound like an f-ing psychiatrist or what?). It shows that the GG community isnât spiteful towards Evo and is starting to act like they truly believe that Evo doesnât have something particularly against the GG community. And weâll definnitely stop feeling so âtaken for grantedâ and, believe me, would be uber-happy to have you guys there.
The funny thing is that the GG community is unique in that it DOES have the support and power to call its own fate. There are many smaller FG communities out there that only wish they could run a BYOC tourney as large as GG to get noticed, like Alpha 3. If anything, the GG community can take being dropped by Evo the MOST in strides and shrug it off. Ironically, not needing Evo to survive is probably the biggest argument for why you guys SHOULD run a BYOC tourney AT Evo. 'Cause like someone said earlier, thereâs no better way to stick it to us than to overshadow us at our own gig in the BYOC. Not by being jerks or spiteful, but by genuinely having a great time and having a hype-as-fuck tourney. Just ask the Halo crowd the year Duc won MvC2 again.
- James
Personally i think both sides could have done better. They âshitedâ on each other.
But more on what jchen is saying, i dont think we are going to boycott evo or anything. As long as both sides can get a fair trade of tings then everyting will be alright.
BesidesâŚthe payouts for top places for all of the main games isnât going to be huge this year without sponsorship. This year itâs all about the pride. Bringing the numbers and hype is the most important thing any of the gamesâ communities can do this year.
I like Jamesâ post. Well put. Plans are already underway to make a big, hype singles side tournament that will overshadow other games featured at Evo.
THe GG community has a right to be peeved. Of the 6 games picked, 4 were Capcom fighters, and half of those have smaller, less involved communities. (Possibly 3)
I have a suggestion for the GG players who want to protest this, yet want to show up at Evo.
Donât stay at the Evo-preferred hotel. This means you can have fun, but hit Evo a bit in the pocketbook. Evo wonât die cause enough people wonât do this, but it would send a small message. Then run your own tourney and make it hype. Itâs a convenient protest to make as well- as you wouldnât have to do anything you wouldnât do already- except walk a bit more.
Jamesâ post definitely is the clearest answer weâve gotten so far. I like it. It was pretty clear to me even before anyone posted but now I feel like I know for sure.
Oh and GG is still strong as hell. Stay hype and donât lose touch. Get MO SLEEP! Sleeping = tourney wins. Providing you sleep before tourney time.
Your concerns about the attendance to finals, as well as the playerâs actions have all been covered many times now by the community. Again and again, and now even yet again, we recognize the mistakes that occured by all of those involved (the AC/slash issues were a major factor in the low turnout, among other things, as discussed many timesâŚ) It has been expressed more times that I can count that the community will not allow these things to occur again, how long must those events be brought up, honestly?
I completely agree with you in that GG doesnât need Evo to survive. I can see why this could be an argument as to why it should be a byoc event instead of a main event. While I actually agree with this argument in some aspects, there are two big flaws.
One is that by removing GG as a main game, GGâs reputation within the SRK community that makes up the majority of Evo continues to worsen. Having GG included in Evo made a big difference and caused people to look at it for what actually is rather than mindless hate we see all over the place. This in turn works vice-versa within the guilty gear community, separating some members, especially new ones, from the SRK crowd and effectively walling off the two communities from each other.
The second is that whether or not there will be a large impact by removing the game in terms of player turnout, hype, or whatever, there is no denying that the community feels somewhat betrayed by Evo. Many of us see GGâs removal as a distinct sign that Evo simply doesnât like Guilty Gear, no matter how true or not this is, as many of us feel that GG being a main game at evo should be a no-brainer due to the numbers, hype, and community that have built since last yearâs mistakes. While I donât think this as much as some others have expressed, I too feel that Evo turned their back on a game, and therefore itâs community, that really possesses all the qualities a game at Evo should have.
Plans are in action to hold a major event at Evo, I just hope that those members who do feel betrayed can get over that and come out.
Rather than learning from your mistakes you GG players are bitching about CvS2 being in EVO over GGAC.
Damn guys, pull yourselves together.
Iâm not taking sides by any means, but as I was telling Daniel, when all of this first came up, when GG doesnât get put in the EVO lineup itâs just going to show how much pull Martin has in the âcommunity.â This fool has so much pull that he got one of the more popular games removed from EVO all together. Everyone can get on here and talk trash about how Martin is a OMG FATASS BITCH PIECE OF FAT SHIT GG FAGGOT UGLY FAGGOT LETS FIGHT ASS TOAD, but lets see you spark this much controversy by oversleeping and being late to your finals match, then when you do play your match only 11 of your friends are watching you.
Also, you all make sure you learn the lesson that is meant to be learned by this experience: if Martin starts playing the game that you go to EVO for, make sure you donât let him make the finals because if he makes one faulty move that game is DONE or to keep with the theme INSTA-KILLED.
In conclusion, Martin when you are deciding the lineup of EVO next year could you please wii tennis in the lineup because I heard the wii tennis community uses deodorant and are not FAGGOT GG PLAYERS CUT THEIR DICKS OFF SHIT ANIME FAGS COMMUNITY. kthx.
Oh yeah, did I say Daniel earlier? I meant Ruin, I forgot as far as SRK goes Daniel I mean Ruinâs mom named him Ruintinel not Daniel. Howâd she know he was going to be good with Sent when he was born? Psychic!
Yeah, and the exercise is good for you. However, Iâm not sure this kind of snub to Evo is the right thing to do. But I do think that if we just have a big enough side tourney, we WILL get noticed. Letâs run the biggest damn tourney there! We can get double CvS2âs numbers, right? Weâre surely bigger than Tekken. I bet that if we tried we could beat Marvel, in hype and numbers. Our game is surely more deserving than Smash, right? And maybe, just maybe, if half of their community drops dead from boredom, we could take down the great scourge of Evo, 3S!
Also, LOL at the accusations that GG players are attacking other games. We knew that it was between us and CvS2. We said "We will bring in massive numbers, whereas CvS2 wonât, and many of those players will play other Capcom games anyway."Do you see those anti-GG avatars? Iâll be right back with a hatinâ avatar of my own. Itâll say something like: âFuck CvS2!â or âMarvel killed my father and raped my mother!â or maybe just âVF had it coming!â Perhaps Iâll insult the manliness of other communities. Now Iâve got to go and have sex with other GG players. An orgy at Evo I say!
All ranting aside, I think that CvS2 perhaps deserved one more year, but I think that cutting GG was still irrational.
Dude heâs mocking the community.
Iâm not taking sides by any means, but as I was telling Daniel, when all of this first came up, when GG doesnât get put in the EVO lineup itâs just going to show how much pull Martin has in the âcommunity.â This fool has so much pull that he got one of the more popular games removed from EVO all together. Everyone can get on here and talk trash about how Martin is a OMG FATASS BITCH PIECE OF FAT SHIT GG FAGGOT UGLY FAGGOT LETS FIGHT ASS TOAD, but lets see you spark this much controversy by oversleeping and being late to your finals match, then when you do play your match only 11 of your friends are watching you.
Also, you all make sure you learn the lesson that is meant to be learned by this experience: if Martin starts playing the game that you go to EVO for, make sure you donât let him make the finals because if he makes one faulty move that game is DONE or to keep with the theme INSTA-KILLED.
In conclusion, Martin when you are deciding the lineup of EVO next year could you please wii tennis in the lineup because I heard the wii tennis community uses deodorant and are not FAGGOT GG PLAYERS CUT THEIR DICKS OFF SHIT ANIME FAGS COMMUNITY. kthx.
Oh yeah, did I say Daniel earlier? I meant Ruin, I forgot as far as SRK goes Daniel I mean Ruinâs mom named him Ruintinel not Daniel. Howâd she know he was going to be good at Sent when he was born? Psychic!
Damn.
This raises an issue about future years though. If there are no regional Evos in 2009, Blazblue might have a console port by then. Wouldnât many of the GG players have migrated to the new game, making it even more difficult to have AC next year? What if BBâs release splits the Arc community, lessening the chance that either game will be featured at Evo? Sorry about the major pessimism. Not the best time to give off that vibe, but you gotta think ahead.
With all the high profile fighting games dropping in 2008, hereâs hoping that something like Smash or an old dead game doesnât take one of their potential spots at the next Evo.
BB will not replace Guilty Gear, the biggest effect it will have is causing GG players to pick up another game along with GG.
Once you get 200 + people in real tournaments and not on signed up pages you will very likely have a spot at Evo.
I donât get why GG guys depend so much on Evo. If you can have those 200 or 300 players tournaments for real, with more people than CvS2 and what not, with a growing comunity and all that propaganda, then why do you need Evo for? Evo would just be a smaller GG tourney in the middle of your oh-so-great tourneys nobody ever saw. Let it go then. You can throw your biggert-than-Evo tournaments and make Evo look like a joke. Then MvC2 and 3S players will beg to have their games at the huge GG nationals. Or not