Question. As a hardcore 3s player, what’s your impression of SF4? For me SF4 seems not bad, but rather ‘meh’ compared to 3s. Losing the parry is a huge letdown. From the other forums, especially in SF4, people seem to dislike the ideas of parry a lot. With characters like Zangief & Balrog, you wonder why Hugo or Dudley with his deep set of options isn’t in it instead. Returning SF2 characters seem so dry compared to 3s characters. Also majority of supers in 3s was instant QCF so you could dash half screen and super if needed it. In other words, you could punish them quickly (ex. whiff jab DP right in your face) on reaction for 35-50% with almost all characters. Funny seeing some character in SF4 punishing that with only a single hard attack normal because they didn’t have their charge. Jumping seem fair in 3s for the jumper and the defender where both could parry or land & tech. In SF4, jumping can be eating a EX anti-air into a maxed super! Did any of the previous SF had anything that good?!
Just play SFIV, have fun with it and don’t worry about which game is better or how SFIV could have been better. Just like every other SF game in existence you can’t judge it based on the first version of the game that has barely even been played. This version of SFIV that is out now is almost certain to be far from the final release of the series and it’s really just a beginning of what’s to come. If you like 3S better (like I still do) then just play 3S. No need to compare shit when you can just pop in 3S and play it. This topic is going to do nothing but incite flames over a game that hasn’t even been truly realized yet.
About the jumping thing…you can get punished badly in many SF games for jumping. If you jump in on Yun when he activates Genei Jin…you lose a ton of health. Jump in badly on Chun Li…probably gonna lose a ton of health. In CVS2 if you jump in on A Bison and he has a full meter…you lose a ton of health. In ST if you jump in on Dhalsim when he has a super…you lose a ton of health. Every SF game has pretty much always had really strong answers for people who jump in at bad times. You don’t have much control over space or your own movement once you commit to jumping in the air and its fair to have big punishment for people who can’t play a good ground game. Which mentally is much more interesting than being able to mindlessly jump in.
Oh and get ready for the shit storm.
I’ve been playing a lot at CTF, and I love it. I honestly think it combines ST and 3s and removes the crap from them both (Fireballs too good, fireballs too bad, throws that are really hard to escape, parrying that rewards players for getting knocked down, supers that are guaranteed damage). Also, for now at least, the game seems pretty well balanced. Even later in the game’s life I imagine it’ll be just like ST. SOME characters will be at the top of the tier list, but they’ll have counter matchups and such.
Parrying is gone but it’s been replaced by the much more balanced saving attack. If you think about it, using the saving attack is kind of like going into a stance where you automatically parry a hit (high or low!) and then respond with a pre-designed attack. MUCH better than every character just doing Parry -> Biggest combo they have.
I also think that as 3s play advanced more and more, parries just got too good. It started going against SF’s philosophy where the guy who gets a knock down is rewarded. Instead, its like the guy who gets a knockdown has a 33/33/33 chance to either get rewarded, lose the momentum as the opponent does a reversal or completely jumps away, or get their ass kicked as the opponent parries properly and does their favorite combo on the guy who knocked him down.
And BTW if you dont like that your charge character cant punish people… then dont play a charge character or block low when you think your opponent is gonna do a reversal and then you’ll have a charge when he’s done.
It seemed ok but didn’t draw me in immediately (and still hasn’t but I need to try it more). Physics are a little sluggish and need tightening up, mostly jumps and dashes. I also hate that ultras are so similar to a character’s super but with slightly modified properties and are used every round, at least in the matches I’ve seen and participated in. Thank God for FA cancels or meter usage and management would be bland as hell in SF4.
Also needs some SF3 characters, and new ones that aren’t like Rufus. But they’re not going in that direction since Dan, Fei Long, and Cammy are expected to be on console.
Other than that, can’t complain. Not the perfect game I envisioned (3S animation, hit-detection, physics, and input windows along with HD sprites, decent projectiles, some fun new mechanic(s) in place of parrying, blend of 2/3/Alpha/new characters with significant changes to returning ones, etc.) but it could’ve been a lot worse… kinda.
Edit: Don’t get me wrong, the game is fun and has a lot of potential. But I don’t agree with many of the decisions the staff is making which leaves me wary of where the game’s going to end up in later editions.
Lol.
You can’t really say anything about both games unless you place high or is a top player in both games. Because to my eyes while Melee does have a lot of technicalities to it I still think it’s a game of fast paced zoning and spamming out high priority moves. Once that high priority move hits or chain throw hits commence to doing big damage and gimp the other guy and edge guard him.
3s however is just a big guessing game of rock, paper, scissors and mixups. Also you can add in a game of how to run away from Genei-Jin and how to break Chun’s defenses. You guys are silly for thinking Parries added a lot of depth. It was a helpful tool yes, but you have to understand that Parries while it gave the lower tiered characters a clutch chance it made the top tiers character insanely powerful.
Example?
There are many advanced parry techniques and “safe” parry attempts. There is a lot and I can’t remember them from the top of my head but you can guess and attempt so many parries with almost no risks for a huge reward. Ever watch Aruka play? He’s a top Ibuki player and this guy taps down like there is no tomorrow fishing out for a low parry. Ken players just loves to tap down right after a Strong-Fierce chain combo for a safe attempt. You can do a lot of shit like throwing with Down+Throw. If they hit you low you’ll parry but if they throw you you’ll tech, if they block you throw them.
Oh yea…Parries eliminated character diversity and zoning. Don’t believe me? Watch any decent match videos and everyone fights at the exact same distance with almost the same exact gameplan.
Edit:
3s is no better than Melee in terms of brokeness. Evo this year had 6 or more Chuns in the final with the exception of a few Yuns. The 2 most dominating characters in the game frequently shuts down the whole cast. Chun on paper beats everyone with the exception of losing to Yun 4/10. Yun beats everyone in the game with the exception of being neutral to Ken 5/10.
not from me but hope it helps
i can’t believe all these people that think mash parry all day = win.
parry is not low risk. you are randomly opening up guard in hopes of hitting what they will be doing.
in 3s you can do anything you want. that is why i think it is the best. you can play like a total guesser and do well, you can play completely safe and do well.
also parry giving advantage to the person knocked down? no way in hell. knockdown is tremendous advantage for the standing opponent for every single character in the game.
as for my opinion of sf4 i feel like i can’t judge it until the level becomes higher. the feel , who knows that is something you get used to. i do find it a bit slow and the timing of the hits a bit weird. they made it so much easier to trade air normals with srks that i don’t think the air game was that affected from losing parry.
i like 3s allot more. but sf4 is an infant and who knows what it could grow up to be.
I love the guy who says u shouldnt say anything about both games unless you are really good at both, and then he goes and shows how much he doesnt know 3s.
So far from what I have seen in Sf4, its like a more advanced ST. The new system seems interesting and I like new characters, but I hate that Ultra does so much damage and its almost like whoever lands the Ultra wins the round. I also dislike the KOF style supers when its just the first hit that matters.
This thread hurts my brain.
damn, if i was the one who created this thread it would be closed on reaction
That doesn’t even scratch the surface of what’s wrong with that post. But I’d argue the part where it doesn’t mention SF4 at all in the entire thing probably rivals what you pointed out for funniest aspect.
I feel like the game needs air saving attack and everyone to have different jump arcs it feels like everyone has the same arc.
I was just about to post that…
What he said. I don’t care if it has parry or not but it doesn’t seem like a new game to me, not in the way NG changed things from ST. I mean, even the alpha series had new stuff.
LOL ya nevermind the fact that he said 3s is a rock, paper, scissors guessing game, and then goes on to point out how parrying is too good.
So i guess rock is too good.
I’m not completely sure just how I feel yet. All I can say is, thank god there’s a dash.
this.
“mashing” parrying doesn’t equal a win, but top-tier characters can guess parry without much risk at certain common distances like low forward distance. 3S is an amazing game, imo the best SF game, but it doesn’t have exactly the most advanced mind games, it’s more intuitive, and it depends on abusing top tier cheddar like low forward hit confirm, aegis, genei jin, dudley overhead, super, etc. to win. In other SF games, you gotta train your opponent more, and rely on repetition, which is the basis of mind games imo. In 3S, repetition gets you killed, and you can say that the better player mixes it up, but sometimes you see 3s matches which altho are high level, they look pretty random. Of course, if someone wants to defend the players, they’ll say “zomg n00b you just don’t see the advanced mind games going on”, but I don’t really believe. In retrospect, you can make an intelligent argument for any mindless action and pretend it was calculated.
well at those high levels lots of stuff is some form of option select so it is calculated afterall.
I don’t want to derail the thread into solely about 3s. Today, I was watching some Gamersvision 3s ranking 6on6. I saw 20 minutes straight, what I notice was NO MAJOR damage ever resulted from parries. In fact, people that tried to parried got punish hard. If it is 33% guessing correct on parries then someone should had lost already due to parries, but they didn’t. There are a lot of parry baiting in 3s. What critics often notice is the damage done when the parries work, but most often fail to see when the parries miss and get punish which is the majority. Perhaps at our level, a successful damaging parry is 33%, but at the highest level (ex.gamersvision), that’s so far off.
Here is the videos I watching so far. Still not finish yet.
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Back to SF4, it’s good that some of the charge super characters can walk forward, ram some jab/short buttons to have enough time to charge their supers. However, it seems like that happens mostly when their opponent screws up big time such as a whiff fierce DP. Wish that QCFx2 was standard for all characters.