"Put down the Flowchart, Scrub!" Ken Video Thread

Haha ya man your ken mopped mine all over the floor haha but thanks for the tips. I will admit i was a little shaky cuz i’ve never made it to a higher bracket at the ranbats so i was a little pressures i guess you can say haha

Ken vs Akuma
You played well. Using TAT in combos is effective against Akuma because YOU WANT to be in his face. His low stamina is his weakness.
Only things to mention are:

  1. Spacing
    Some cross-ups were missed… it happens. But that added with getting hit by random pokes adds to the problem as that was where you lost most of your health in all rounds. Random stuff.
  2. Footsies
    If you are in c.mk range… then you should be patient. Either attack with c.mk or back-off. A cross-up will whiff and a f+mk is not ideal. It’s footsies when you are just outside of c.lp.

Watch the match… all he did was use basic jabs (no combos) to push you away and poke with c.mk or c.hk. And then he played a hit-and-run zone game.


Ken vs Ryu (1)
hehehe. Annoying wasn’t he? Well… he’s the one that won! He was playing smart.
Big thing I noticed during that match… You don’t pressure by staying at f+mk range. You should always be at this range moving back and forth pressuring the opponent. Sometimes you ran out of ideas and retreated throwing FB’s… when you run out of ideas - you should be retreating to f+mk range and do your thinking there.
So far… people are beating you with pokes. Ken has one of the best pokes in the game (f+mk). Stay in its range and poke em back. You need to be defensive… but with Ken: defense is being withing f+mk range.
… need more footsies and less rampaging combos.
Everytime you got within the range - you immediately launched an attack. He just beat you out everytime.
Also note: No aa DP’s as you are too fixated on making your own assault as oppose to pressuring the opponent til he makes the mistake.
I rarely ever jump at Ryu unless on wake-up (even then it’s high-risk).

Take boxing as an example. They don’t back off… and then walk within range and then go for glory. No - they keep within their poke range and poke at the opponent opening holes or waiting for a mistake.
So I conclude: Stay on the ground. Stay within f+mk range. Patiently poke and pressure till either he messes up or you inch within cross-up range and then launch an attack.


Ken vs Ryu (2)
WELL DONE ON FOOTSIES! :slight_smile:
Let’s move on to some other issues - Corner Defense
You didn’t jump forward at him and get smacked by AA dp. That’s a positive.
But you lack the many other options.

  1. Jump back + kick
    > It is silly… but it messes up the timing of their attacks. You are in a corner… but not locked in
  2. jump tatsu
    > You now know Ryu’s effectiveness in a corner… so get your ass outta there.
  3. FB.ex
    > Puts him in stun and gives you time to either escape or launch an assault. You are always saving meter for your assaults… keep an open mind. Defense is more important than offense.

Ken’s corner game. You give it up too easily whilst trying to break guard with cross-up. And put yourself in the corner!
When he put you in the corner he didn’t make any cross-ups or CQC assaults. He just kept you there pinned countering your mistakes.
Ken can do the same. Leave em in the corner and stay within f+mk range poking at them til A REAL OPPORTUNITY opens up.


Ken vs Cammy
Don’t know the match-up (too much arcade).
You could start trying FB.ex at the end of strings and follow-up with f+mk
It uses less meter than FB xxFADC > c.hk

Just an option. FB xxFADC > c.hk is fine… but expensive on meter.


Ken vs Boxer
Just match-up issues in this one

  1. If Boxer is 3/4 screen distance or further and throws a random HP/HK … he just charged turn-punch. You can bait with FB+lp (fullscreen) and counter DP/ULTRA him when he goes through. Counter his Counter.
  2. Careful of turn-punch follow-ups. He’s using a pad - so he can charge it easily (1 trigger = 3k/3p) whilst playing normally.

Boxer is at his prime when he is crouching in jab distance. I fight a lot of boxers around here and have developed this approach:

  1. I defend withing jab distance. His jabs are simply… great. I don’t mess with him.
  2. When you are outside of jab distance (and within sweep) I do one of three things:
    a) be ballsy and poke back - rarely
    seriously… still in his territory here. He has many counters… and could lead to ULTRA.
    b) attempt to catch him and FA2DC his sweep (or absorbed dash straight)
    c) FA retreat or stay blocking til he pushes me out of range.

Look at the above approach when in CQC with Boxer. How can he beat me?

  1. Jab all he wants. I’ll block and tech.
  2. He can try and sweep but I’ll either block and get pushed out of range or FA counter him.
  3. He can’t throw out a dash straight (chip damage) but the same result will happen (FA counter) …or I’ll block it and he’d get punished (blocked dash straight in CQC = punishable).
    What he can do:
  4. Jump assault
    > loses charge and risks himself to AA c.hp or DP
  5. Overhead
    > Slow start-up. Very punishable
  6. Sit there with ineffective pokes
    > stalemate

So that’s what I do in the immediate CQC range… BLOCK/TECH. It’s in this range where he deals damage. The above approach nullifies him out.

So what happens once you get pushed out (or retreat out) of sweep distance?

  1. I immediately FA and see what happens.
    >A lot of Boxers will dash straight when you are out of sweep distance as they do not have many options. If he doesn’t move… I keep retreating and throw out random FA’s til I retreat back to 3/4 or fullscreen safety.
  2. He either walks forward and loses charge - where you can now attack.
  3. f+mk poke or f+hk

If he doesn’t do something stupid into your FA then you are again at a stalemate… except now you are pretty much safe and he can’t do shit but sit there charging up turn-punch.

Boxer weaknesses:

  1. Can’t do shit outside of sweep distance
  2. No answer to wake-up cross-up besides … RUN!
  3. Any special moves he does outside of sweep distance has a long start-up

Summary:
I fight like a pussy until he makes a mistake and I get a KD. Once the KD happens… I go into assault mode.
If he corners you… jump and tatsu out (when safe) and remember to block!




And a general critique of you, “monkeysarefun”.
You suffer from the Ken syndrome. Attacking and attacking when it isn’t suitable to attack. Don’t rush things and get caught up in the moment. The more attacks you make - the more of a chance they are not within optimal range/time… and the more opportunities you open yourself to be countered.

Hope this all helps and is worth the long read. Otherwise I just wasted a good hour

Definitely not a waste, this is EXTREMELY helpful.

You are totally right about my play… I am not very good at being defensive. I feel like I have to go balls to the wall at all times, which is my biggest fault. If I can relax, then I do much better with being patient, but this is what I really need to work on.

You are also totally right about my AA game, I always miss it because I am looking for my own opportunities, which I REALLY need to change.

I like your ideas against Balrog too. All this stuff is great.

Again, thanks a ton gunslinger, I really appreciate it. Now it’s time to put it into practice.

You were definitely playing it safe for most of the match. It’s good and bad.
Good because you don’t want to get countered by doing unsafe attacks.
Bad because you become too apprehensive and don’t actually push when you probably won’t get punished.
Not throwing a FB after a c.mk is fine if you don’t want to get countered. FB.ex will work better for hit. No FB at all is the better option if they’ve been blocking of course.

You know how to handle SB’s fine. Stay grounded and block or FA tactics.
But also keep note of recovery of Guile’s SB - extremely quick. So FADC through a SB and DP isn’t very likely to hit. Hard enough to do against a FB… let alone trying it against a SB.

THE MAJOR PROBLEM?
Match-up.
FB > Sonic boom
Make the bitch lose charge and come to you. Don’t chase him… Guile can’t win fullscreen against a shoto. It’s frustrating chasing a Guile down, right? Do the same to him.

Also note the problem of being ‘too defensive’. It boosts opponent confidence… leading to them making more assaults and more setups… this in effect reduces your chances of defending correctly.

Summary: Play safe and make him come to you… and then keep playing safe. When the opportunity arises… GO NUTS! But when there is a reset… RETREAT and out-turtle him.

Thanks for the tip gunslinger!!! I’ll work on some better rushdown/mixup. I’ll turtle more haha

Your ultra set ups were too risky

Dont focus sonic booms.

utilize step kick more in this match-up. he doesnt have a solid answer for it and it gets you to where you want to be. Which is…

All up in his face. STAY THERE. work the ken shinnanigans. Use more Tatsu. I saw you doing the links, but you didnt throw that tatsu out. By the way, more links isnt always better.

And dont be afraid to throw hados. Throw him off his charge. This is one of the matches where you can actually utilize Kens fireball. So do it.

FADCing Sonic Booms is not a bad idea against Guile IMO. You have to use it judiciously but it works well against Guiles that follow their j.SB.

It does take some level of skill because you need to make a judgment call to release or dash fw/back. Good way to get out of the corner too against Guile.

Too much psychic f.DP. At close range you are better off using j.DP as the damage is comparable while the risk is much lower (as charge chars may not have enough time to do bnb combos on you).

ok, so just got home from class and i have time to critique a bit:

what other people said, finish those links, tatsu’s are great vs. guile as they allow you to keep pressure on.

about your ultra setups, the first one is a good setup (focus dash the sb at that range) but i would go with srk > fadc > ultra, you were gunning for a ch in the first place so at least that way you would give yourself some safety. obviously that second ultra setup was just a slight miss of the cross-up ex tatsu, so just work on that more. i’m a huge fan of that ex air tatsu > ultra on people jumping into the corner, it’s something i like to do :tup:

you over use focus in this match-up at times when it isn’t good and you don’t use it where it should be used. round 3 for example, that second sweep from guile was your chance to focus > punish. you need to catch that opening extremly consistently.

work on mixing up your tick throw/kara-throw setups, it needs to be a constant geussing game a bunch of mix-up options for going into throws were allready listed, but don’t forget the 1 option that makes all the others so much more deadly: do your tick throw setup, pause for a couple frames then do a c.mk > hado, i consistently catch people who were trying to tech my kara-throw with this ^^.

your wake-up game on guile i think is where you lost this match-up, guile has a pretty large weakness to wake-up shenanigans and he has no answer to a good safe-jump other than to block, and when he starts doing that go ahead and ambiguously do a jump-in that looks like it’s gonna cross-up. i mean really guile can’t even use ex to escape, his ONLY option to a strong safe-jump/wake up game is to block and then tech until your out to a safe range.

last point i want to mention is your meter usage, you need to lay off the ex hado, you wasted sooo much of your meter on them. ideally i like to sit between 2 and 3 meters as that’s where ken is by far the most menacing (i never sit on full super, it’s wastefull as you get no meter gain for your actions till you use some ex, that and shortcuts might give you a super on accident… and we don’t want that). which if you were finishing those link combos with tatsu’s hado’s and srk’s you would have more than enough meter built up to have fadc. not so much to spam as to threaten your opponent with, cause at any moment you can just explode into action with fadc.

Don’t think anyone posted these

Emilio vs Curry (Sagat)
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Ichi vs Ojisan Boy (Sagat)
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Ichi vs Oruru Ken mirror
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I think you linked the same vids…but nice…I need to work on my pokes…I see now how to play more defensively with Ken…

walk back!!! I don’t play tourney’s…but here’s me and one of the best ELF players alive playing…He’s using his Gouken though–bad quality, but I thought it was funny;)

[media=youtube]p5irmfQaQcw[/media]

I guess I should start looking at some vids again, i have a tourney coming up…I don’t care about winning, I just wanna show ppl I got some juice lol…

Damn, really nice to see those japanese players taking ken further as a character. Nice spacing and wakeup games… :clapdos:

Rate my Ken please. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Started using him last Saturday competitively. I find him really fun and not broken or top tier.

“Early stages”
[media=youtube]ctgyXlByQ_M[/media]
[media=youtube]BuaXhtYQKX8[/media]
[media=youtube]Q-Co6VR-UwI[/media]

“A few Days After”
[media=youtube]6x60_1fYQOM[/media]

I’m still working on fixing my game but if you guys have to time to mention anything I did wrong or do better.

NeoRussell

Thanks for the heads up!

Check the related videos too, there’s also:
Inoue (Ke) vs Ichi (Ke)
Aiku (Bi) vs Inoue (Ke)
Ichi (Ke) vs Toyo (Bl)

think you could save us all some searching and post up the links?

I really enjoy watching the japanese players use Ken, I took quite a few notes from those Inoue/ Ichi matches. They definitely play differently than anyone I’ve ever played. They are very patient!

Quick question: How did you record these?

Archos 5 with DVR Station
Quality is good aint it?

NeoRussell

What is the setup like? Do you have to split the cables straight from the 360? How does it work?

And yeah, the quality is amazing.

Also, is there any lag/ latency when recording and playing?

lol my bad.

Inoue (Ke) vs Ichi (Ke)
[media=youtube]ReMPsVCuhgc[/media]

Aiku (Bi) vs Inoue (Ke)
[media=youtube]mOxuc4COa1g&feature=related[/media]

Ichi (Ke) vs Toyo (Bl)
[media=youtube]p0WGZZBajOg&feature=related[/media]

Inoue (Ke) vs Moyomoto (Ry)
[media=youtube]pGjSZmm1eJI&feature=related[/media]

God damn this. There are way too many videos.
Just go here: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=lordaborigine&view=videos&query=(KE)

Haven’t watched them yet.

Archos has composite IN.
Just plug 360 straight to the system.
There is sound lag but it’s barely noticeable.
You can probably tell when you watch any other videos if you look closely.

NeoRussell