I’m pretty sure an unblockable setup that leads to 500+ damage from a throw is pretty significant compared to stuff like that. It’s still really situational, though, so it’ll probably stay “underground” for a while (unless someone tips off an SRK editor or something).
Of course it’s significant! I plan to fuck with it and get it in my gameplan asap.
But let’s be real. Most people will say “fuck this…” and keep it moving.
Because it’s too situational. Who does this work on? Seth? Doesn’t seth have a teleport? What happens if he tries to jump on wake-up? I mean, it’s a cool find and all, but it’s just not really that useful. It’s pretty much like the one “Cl St lk - cr lk - Far lk - super” link that I found last week. While being far less situational, it’s still stupidly hard to pull off and will make it not really all that useful. Add that it’s a one frame link to boot and you’re talking about " 4 hits -> rekka -> super" difficulty.
I went on a tangent. My bad.
I haven’t tried this yet. Admitted. But it’s worth looking at. If you can get it down it makes Seth free because Seth owns us on offense. It’s worth looking at and practicing it.
Juri has a lot of shit that’s amazing!!! It’s all 1 framers and situational and all that bull. But that doesn’t mean its not useful. Take what you can and use what you can.
Some people just skip things out from their gameplay, it’s pretty common. They might not feel a certain technique is necessary or they can’t be bothered to use it lol. Like I don’t see much Juri players use any of her 1-frame BnBs, I’ve only seen 3 Juri players use it so far.
I personally hate using her 1f link because I haven’t gotten it down. I’m getting there though.
But there are certain things that you should learn. Character specific stuff is important. Most players don’t know their characters weaknesses in the match up. Most people don’t know they can be fuzzy guard by juri.
Seths won’t know about this. So… Wouldn’t you have the advantage?
I my question is… If you mess this up are you at a disadvantage?
Totally mike. Not saying it’s not a good idea to use… I’m saying most of the juri community are fine with playing her like a shoto and getting frustrated when they lose. Eventually they drop her and keep it moving claiming “I use to play as juri but she was ass”.
Juri is a character that takes a LOT of extra knowledge. This will give is power.
But not Many players will use this. They’re not ready yet.
Not really on topic of the current conversation, but Kail said something that caught my attention. Tbh, I think people don’t play her like a shoto ENOUGH. They should try and do just that imho.
People look at what makes a character different from the rest and start looking for “what works”. Early on in the game, Juri’s uniqueness came mainly from divekicks, unpunished pinwheels and fuhajin store+release combos. Divekicks surprises fewer people every day. Nowadays practically everyone at the very least mashes something to punish pinwheels. Fuhajin combos are just combos and knowing or not knowing how to do them won’t let you outplay people. Failing to win with her unique abilities is what makes ppl quit thinking “what a shit character”.
Before I get back to the “play Juri like a shoto” thing I said, I want to point to another example. How many T.Hawks spammed condor dives in the early days? Virtually all of them. Now when you play one that’s one of the big things on your mind. The people that stuck with hawk and got better can get away with jump-ins like it’s free, because people without DP’s can’t AA with normals without the risk of getting dived at. Lesser Gief players will jump at you like there’s no tomorrow trying to get into range to SPD/Suplex you, because that’s what Gief “is” to them. That’s one of the thigns that distinguishes him as a character. The better ones use normals and ballsily walk up to you. Something that any character with good normals could do, but it offsets Gief’s more obvious tools to great effect.
Aaaanyway, before this turns into (more of) a sermon, I’ll get to the point. Juri’s obvious tools aren’t effective against players that are aware of them. There’s nothing truly spammable about them. If divekicks and pinwheels were always safe on block, oh my… there’d be an army of faithful Juri players. Something that wasn’t immediately obvious was her Fuhajin zoning. I can’t say exactly why. Maybe because of the two-phases making it too unsimilar to ‘regular’ projectiles. However, that’s one of the things that actually works in the long run. There’s nothing gimmicky about fireball zoning, which is also something shotos do pretty well. In some situations it’s fine to jump all over your opponent, but juri has good range on her kara-throw and some very decent normals. Her ground game isn’t a link-fest like Ryu’s but you can and (imo) should apply the same principles.
Nah son. Juri has different goals than a shoto.
Juri is about reading your opponent and trapping them and corner pressure IMO. She reminds me of a character that puts bombs on the stage and gets a chance to huge punish for their Mistake.
I want people to throw fireballs. She has so many ways to punish them. The only thing shotos have to beat fireballs is a jump in or ex. Juri earns huge advantage off a punish. You can fireball war but you put your body on the line. Shotos don’t. You have to juggle kicking, releasing high low and mid, teleportint front back and high, or dive kick single or full. Based on your goals you have different options. Shotos have nothing like this.
I want opponents to jump. Juri starts her pressure off an anti air. The tide changes when she hits her anti air. Off a Jump she can Set up a fireball to get heavy damage off of one meter or super or even ultra. The trick is setting it up. Why are you holding a hk fuhajin? Your losing your sweep and far hk. When did you store? These are things a juri must keep in mind that shotos don’t.
Footsies are different. Her attacks are cancellable to fuhajin release but you gotta store it first. Again… When? If you whiff you lose your charge. You can’t buffer this everytime. Shotos can. You can use lk pinwheel but it’s a gamble… Press a button and eat it…I much prefer a fuhajin to this, but you take what you can. Shotos have a safe fireball always.
Shotos have a get put of jail free card. They can dp fadc. Juri can’t. You’re decisions on defense are different.
Juri has different goals in the corner. She relies on frame traps and heavy pressure off of a reduced push back and high advantage off of fuhajin blocked and hit. I feel juris goal is to corner and abuse. She’s most solid on offense in the corner. However it takes a lot of execution. Holding fireballs, storing them… Choosing the right normals, leaving small gaps, fuzzy guarding, overheading, instant dives… And a very difficult fadc ultra…aaaaand ultra 1.
Ryu/Ken/akuma/Sakura/Dan don’t train you for that.
Solid is solid. A solid plan is universal. I can play almost any character in the game by being smart, playing footsies with basic ideas of the goals of the character and do fairly well. But knowing how a character is played and what he/she excels at… That’s the trick
All my views. I think I’m the minority on how juri is played. I tend to play her different. So… Yea.
[media=youtube]KGjBPzsxjRU]YouTube - Wolfkrone [Viper] vs WeirdoNeo [Juri[/media]
YEAH! Wolf Who?
edit: and this:
[media=youtube]6IJoxPUtocQ[/media]
Finally had time to watch the set, nice matches. Couple of things I noticed:
[LIST]
[]You punished his teleports nicely. Even if you didn’t nail it every time, it really limited his options in the corner.
[]He was mashing your FSE strings after the first couple of games. You could’ve just taken a round with cr.LK, cl.MP > block, watch him sail away and full punisher on way back. You would’ve gotten more mileage out of FSE that way, now you just used it less towards the end of the set.
[]Whiff punishing. I noticed you didn’t really have a go to punish for eg. FA whiff outside cr.MK range, I think you could’ve gotten a far.HK or HK pinwheel off for most of those. He was whiffing a lot of focuses towards the end of the set.
[]Maybe more throws mixed between fireball frametraps. I think he often stopped teching when you were doing corner fireball traps, because you rarely threw him after going for a fireball. At least that’s the feeling I got.
[*]Very good fireball avoidance, I liked how towards the end you were dashing under his air fireballs like they weren’t even there.
[/LIST]
In addition to those there was the usual basic stuff: better hit confirms (you sometimes predicted and pinwheeled), finish your hit confirms (you often dropped a hit confirm that landed), finish your FSE combos. I assume you know all this stuff.
Picked up something new for myself from that set as well, never thought of using TK Dive kick after a FA crumple backdash to corner the opponent. That’s pretty clever.
Thanks for the feedback deice! To address a few things. I rarely didn’t go for throws in the corner because I was just practicing raw fireball offense. There’s a rhythm to my pressure that is dependent on a lot of things (if i forced my opponent to stand, did he block low, did it hit, can I use c hp to use mid fireball… Etc). I’ve been going in the lab and practicing on a crouching random blocking dummy to get this down.
The problem with my style of corner is I double fireball store as much as possible. This adds to the mix up by a lot. I’m just not there yet in. Being able to control it. If I have a low stored I wanna throw I gotta release the button some how where it’s quick and not noticeable. I can use a whiffed jab but that’s noticeable. You know? I can dash forward but that leaves a big gap.
You’re 100% right. Gotta throw more. Tukk3 and I played last night. Went 10/0 vs his Seth. He said his defense is poor and did bait him a lot more. I gotta practice this more. I know it’s coming… I’m just so offensive minded now a days.
Whenever I practice one thing I tend to slack on something else with juri. Mike had said this to me too… My fse is weak. I’ve forgotten so much. Gotta work on that.
As for the fireball avoidance he had a rhythm and he never used the ones that come straight down. If he did I would have been screwed. Also the ex ones messed me up. If you see I tried to dash under but the change in trajectory messed me up.
I gotta work on my hit confirms and fse. Definitely. On reflex I do slk slk cmk xx ex low. Gotta change that.
Thanks for the feedback. I will go into the lab and work on those things.
I’m not so sure a whiffed jab is noticeable. It’s Juri’s shortest move, with a full animation of 11 frames, and you can also chain-cancel it to a crouching LK if you’re in range for that to connect.
I wouldn’t pick FSE anyway for akuma anyway, he’s got teleport, uppercut and good keepaway, all in all not worth the risk. U2 keeps him honest on his oki game, it’s easy to catch divekick and air fireball trip guard. U got all the standard setups bar divekick juggle which is only available in the corner, his standing rh is veryunsafe if u crouch it. So it’s not hard to land massive damage fadc combos on the whiff if u have a fireball stored. Ex divekick predictable teleports for even more style points 
Hey Juri enthusiast! Managed to get some down time and record more matches of mine. If you guys don’t mind taking a look at it and giving me feedback i would love it! It is abel and ryu matches i fought about a month ago, when i had internet.
Juri vs Abel
[media=youtube]mxXrANr-kXE[/media]
I get exploded in the first round because i tried to play footises. I dunno happened there -sigh- overall the it was a good match.
Juri vs Ryu
[media=youtube]eFX3w1XEZGI[/media]
The second match is more or less a standard Ryu vs Juri match cept the Ryu player isn’t that bad of one. Anyway enjoy the vids people. Training hard and hoping to go to winter brawl soon! Take care everyone
I turned the videos off after seeing like 15 c lks that cost you 60% of your life from thestart of the match. Tell me it gets better … >.>
Edit: sorry. I was a dick. Let me finish it.
edit2: I’ll try not to be a dick but I apologize if it comes off harsh.
Why do you press so many buttons? there is no reason to press so many damn buttons. I remember the name…I think I played you before and (sorry) was not impressed. I play Juri’s online and Im always hopeful…then disappointed.
You lost literally…75% of your life from abel from pressing crouch short!? WHY WOULD YOU BE PRESSING CROUCH SHORT?! You didn’t try and play footsies, you just tried to hit buttons.
Which brings me to my first point of improvement. Stop pressing buttons without reason. Everytime you press a button you should have a purpose and a reason for it. If you dont have a reason to…dont press it. Same goes for any of the moves you decided to use without logic. Pinwheel after far hk? Why? You got away with it the first time with ex pin and I’ll give you that, i would have gone “oh god” but nodded like “you right son”. The second time you Hk pinwheeled. Why!? Thats dp fadc ultra there! (ryu didnt know how to punish).
Next, you actually had points where you got a hit Something that I gotta work…and same to you…hit confirm combos. If you hit a lk you should be able to go “shit i hit him, combo that!”.
Next, know what buttons to use when…i saw a lot of times you were doing like mediums on wake up for no reason. You’re lucky abel didn’t exploit this. This is totally what I mean from point 1…have a reason for it, and if it doesnt work you can at least chalk it up to experience. Get comfy with your normals (and learn when to cancel off them).
Last thing…ditch the mashing. Honestly…that shit is for the birds and will get you killed. Its really yourself beating yourself. If i saw you do that I would just drop combos and punish that shit as hard as I can. That would have been Corner for you and KO Win for me.
You seem lost, so let me just quickly advise what i know of the match up’s.
Abel vs Juri is “who stikes first blood first”. It really is sudden death. Who ever is pressured first loses. With that beign said, avoid his step kick at all costs. Once he gets the step kick on you its all over. His mix up is too good for juri and is the worst kind for her…changing sides ambiguously, mixed in with lock down normals (That trade with pinwheel) and command grabs. Its bad for her. With that being said, its really good for you to pressure him. You force abel to block and shove him in the corner. He cant do anything really. He has to ex roll out of the way or guess with a ex Tornado throw. I like to use sc.mk in this match up a lot. This keeps him from Tornado throwing and forces him to block.
Keep Abel back until you get in. Once you do that…get in his face and never leave him.
Juri vs Ryu same thing really, but ryu should Not be jumping, or throwing fireballs willy nilly. You have tools to beat everything Ryu has at mid screen. Play the match as such until you get a knock down. After that pressure him with cross up j.lk’s (Aim for his lower back if you think hes gonna block or aim for his head if you think he’ll shoryu). Put Ryu in the corner and take a step back. A this range he cant do anything. He must block the Fuhajins. He can ultra, but if they do…then…you know you can bait.
If they jump in either of them. c.hp or c.mp depending on the range. C.hp if close, c.mp if further.
Thats basic ideas of what to do…use it brother. Ask specific questions. See you at winter Brawl
Ye-ouch! I didn’t find your comment offensive. I’m really just trying to improve my game. Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!
Sorry. I really was in a sour mood. Even when I tried to relax I was still in a pissy mood.
1)think more. I really can’t stress this. Why would you press a button here. If you have a reason, do it. I sometimes just press mp over and over again because I know they’ll get caught in counter hit hell. Why would you jump in. Do you expect them to block? If they do… Then when. Always think ahead and know you and your opponents options.
Example. Abels in the corner. What are your options? What are his options? Any of your tools cover his options? Why?
Example. Ryu mid screen. What could ryu do? What could you do? Anything that covers multiple options?
I think all the time just… How to use what I have to win. You gotta do the same or else… Your just pressing buttons.
Suggestion. Play endless and just use her normals. Get used to her range and the utility. Do this for a session. Things will make more sense.
And stop pressing a button 8 times… Clean up your inputs. Lol.
Some of my xbl replays from this week:
Generally i play this match-up really lame. zone to hell with fireballs, then when i feel the other player is annoyed and conditioned (round 2) do some random rush-down then go back to fuhajin lameness. I also like to fuhajin store on his wake-up to bait ex green hand for a heavy punish. You’ll see me doing an insane amount of vertical jumps.
[media=youtube]6RBT7HJm5NQ"[/media]
Fuhajin to make blanka jump on or river run so i can attempt to punish, but when he’s got meter, i just wait for the blanka ball.
[media=youtube]MNfExh_efyw"[/media]
I haven’t developed a game plan for Akuma yet, i try to just watch for player tendencies. One thing i do sometimes is dash in when the round starts if i think he’ll ju mp back air fireball, heavy punish when he lands.
[media=youtube]pB_2VsM6bo8"[/media]
Same as all Shoto’s no real strategy formed yet. When the round starts ill try for a jump in punish if he throws a fireball and then just fuhajin pressure to make him come to me… Shoto’s give me trouble.
[media=youtube]5k48WXgHNao"[/media]
My game plan for this match-up is usually don’t jump lol, i know how juri controls the air some i try to dash in allot for throws. This guy is on my friends list so we play allot.
I watched the ryu match. Not bad. Some thoughts.
When full screen a trap I like is store low + store mid. Throw a mid and dash forward. If you’re in a fireball war you can throw a low under their next and dive kick for a 4 hit combo. You wanna control space always… Even full screen. Make ryu scared to throw them at all. That will make him jump more.
In the corner nice pressure. Remember. From the distance you threw the fireball… He must block. Use this to your advantage.
After a c mp aa, store a fireball. It’s a free chance for pressure.
Always have a fireball stored imo. It’s like a charge character not holding db. You’re forgetting what makes your character good. Heh.
Ryu dp loses to fuhajin store. Learn this. Make the match free for juri imo.
You’re game plan is doing what you did… Play footsies and spacing… Then rush in for the kill on kd.