Great post!
Yeah, I just noticed I got corrected a while ago in another thread. EventHubs frame data says 12, but 21 makes way more sense.
For some reason I usually never us FA until the end of the round or if I see my opponet usuing a really slow move alot, well yeah I guess I have that flowchart in my head too… online FAs suck ass and can fuck you over terribly sometimes but it still a solid tactic of bison’s for sure
I’ve thought I’ve seen it a few times but now I know for sure- s .hk can stuff Ryu’s lp dp with the right timing/range it seems. Was this already known? if so I won’t waste time uploading the vid lol.
I always like to use s.hk as a finishing meaty but it often trades with the dp. But now I know it can beat it ;p.
NM it doesn’t seem to beat mp shoryuken tho maybe my timing is off. If it only beats one dp its pretty worthless.
posted this in the dictator request thread but i want to post it here too. please double check this and share your results.
For these tests I used Ryu and haven’t checked with anyone else. He may not be the best character to use this on but you guys can test for the other characters once you confirm for yourselves that this does indeed work.
Ok so there’s a good setup that might work really well in Super. It works pretty well in SF4 right now (in training mode, haven’t had the balls to take it on a test run) but it’s kind of unreliable, but only a little…the setup itself is really simple, jump in + combo ending in light scissors + psycho crusher. one anomaly I noticed is that cr.forward adds strange properties to the distance scissor kicks throws the opponent. if you were to do a scissor kick from opening round distance and then restarted and did scissor kicks from point blank distance, ryu will end up the exact same space away from you. If bison is on the right its Ryu with his foot over the middle of he super bar, Bison’s leg over the exclamation mark in the super bar, regardless of light kick, medium or roundhouse scissors. cr.forward in a combo doesn’t have the push out property when you do a regular two hit jump in like jump in fierce, cr.forward xx scissors, but when you use it in either cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mk xx scissors or cr.lp, st.lk, cr.mk xx scissors, it pushes the opponent out farther, both in regular jump in or crossup. Not exactly sure why this happens but it does.
So if youre just doing a regular jump in or crossup that is NOT either of the six hit bnbs (for example if its just jump in, normal xx scissors or something longer like crossup short short short xx scissors) if you input med. psycho crusher on the first frame possible to do so after your landed light scissors, it will ‘cross up.’ the timing is like the same as if you were to just follow up blocked short scissors with another scissor kick, but it has to be tight as possible. for the regular six hit bnbs whether youre using st.lk or st.close jab to link to cr.forward, you must use fierce psycho crusher but its the same principle. i’ve managed to use strong psycho crusher a few times but its really wonky and had more success with fierce psycho crusher. For some reason crossing up after these bnbs feels harder for me, I dunno why but the timing feels harder. It does work however and is worth learning i think.
anyways, these setups are solid…KIND OF. when you get the timing for the PC perfectly, it works pretty damn well. i’d say it’s no more difficult than a one frame link which i guess it kind of is in a sense. The only problem is that the tech window is fucking huge. you can actually ‘late tech’ a knockdown in a sense simply because of the huge window to do so. I always tap throw a few times when I get knocked down and you’re not always going to land that tech in the same fraction of that tech window each time. if the PC is done properly then that window gets reduced for Ryu and it’s more likely than not that it will cross up if he blocked incorrectly. get the PC setup right in training mode then try teching at different times, late, early, etc. and 1 out of 4-5 of those times you’ll make the PC whiff. If the PC actually hits you from the front on block, the timing is wrong. you know the timing is right and you escape by lucking out with the tech window when the PC whiffs. you can see how on your PC crossup is by just mashing on throw or trying out different timings for techs and if like 1/5 times you get away then you’ve probably gotten it right.
Soooo the point of all this is that if its done properly its a relatively small gamble (aside from eating a shoryu haha), the only issue is lack of consistency because of that tech window being > than the crossup PC hitbox window. If this crossup PC setup in vanirra works on more than just Ryu then this might be a very viable tool in Super and will probably have a great deal of consistency. If the speeds of PC are indeed faster across all strengths, then there might need to be a new setup or minor adjustments but i think we’re going to be set. Right now, throw > slide > medium PC is just a TAD bit too slow to cross up. If it were just a bit faster I think it’d be possible. Also, since the spacing for scissor knockdowns remain the same, there’s no way to use a safe lp PC after a scissors knockdown right now. the best you can do is off of a six hit bnb using cr. forward to link into scissors but that is also unsafe. This might however change in super but it’d have to go a shorter distance.
When I first messed around with crossup PC I just used the same recorded Bison dummy on all characters and I only needed to make a slight spacing adjustment for a few of them, so it’s quite possible that the setup I mentioned above or some new ones to compensate for new PC speeds, might indeed be applicable across the board or at least most of it. If that’s the case then Bison is going to be fucking crazy in Super. Lp PC to hit dead on (unsafe though 
) and mp PC for crossups after any landed scissor kick, FP PC for crossup follow ups to six hit bnbs. Retro psycho crusher FTW.
Nice post! Very interesting, I’ll have to experiment myself later. Looks like this will be easier in Super.
hmmmm i think i may have found out how to crossover headstomp
it involves
a focus attack
a slide
and a very meaty headstomp
gonna test it out on all the characters, so far it works on sakura and the shotos
Should this work, meaty ex headstomps r gonna be nasty!:woot:
Tease! :sad:
Regarding one of the eralier posts of the page,
If you record a combo and you put the cpu to replay it it will work even if it crosses up, because charge is not lost when you cross up if you change the direction of the stick the frame you change sides.It’s humanly impossible, but the cpu can do that.Cpu also does crossup j.mk ultra with blanka somethimes in versus battle against it…It’s pretty ridiculous.
Hey guys I’m going in training mode and testing every situation that comes to mind with Bison versus other chars so when the new game comes along I can concentrate on the new chars match up wise. And I came across the Viper match up basically if you get a throw and space out meaty cr.mk while holding back and option select standing hk you beat every option except ultra.Still got to check but it’s nice.
Like so : ex seismo = block free punish
dp thunder knuckle= free st.hk
ex burning kick = free st.hk
desparation ex thunder knuckle = free st.hk
Flash Metroid special ex seismo feint throw/overhead mix up = free st.hk
block= pressure
don't feel like block= cr.mk xx sk
For everything else there is mastercard.You want to distance it where you will still hit viper but it won’t trade with her dp.Why trade when you can get a free st.hk.
Good stuff laud I think Bison will be around top 8-10 though he is like top 10ish now the game is going to have more characters which will have problems with Bison’s footsies. And the game will be better balanced from what I heard.To bad we didn’t get the sim pass on damage lol but hey what are you going to do.
yup the setup works, it’s much easier to do than if you just get a knockdown but it’s a lot harder on everyone else but Ryu!
I kept doing it like 8/10 times against Ryu and then wrote the post. then i went and tried it on blanka and i couldn’t get it to work. the timing is very strict, it literally is the first frame you can do anything after a hit lk scissor kick, but most importantly what works KIND OF in SF4 should work well in Super. Everyone try out the setup at the end of April!
And AndyOCR, that sounds really tricky, I’ll try it out in training mode.
A lot of times after a throw or slide I try to time the headstomp to hit them basically at the toes as soon as they are able to be hit again. When doing this it seems to beat any dp or just akes them whiff and then the skulldiver catches them off guard a bit more often.
updated: so the crossup PC setup has a lot of wonky success off of various combos
the most success I have is like an 80-90& success rate with jump in fierce, cr.mp or cr.mk xx lk scissors followed by a MP psycho crusher immediately, give or take a frame or two. it’s been working very very consistently in training mode so far, only opponents tested extensively are chun and ryu.
crossups have wonky success. any longer six hit bnb requires fierce PC to use but any three hitters or any involving short short shorts work well with MP psycho crusher.
it’s easy to test out, i’d really like it if some other people mess around with this setup and let me know what they think.
it’s so late in the game now, but i think we should start looking for potential setups for Super. This particular setup should be really really easy to do come the end of April. The problem with some of the other combos is that there’s a HUGE tech window for quick stand. I just realized this in testing the crossup PC. if you do a late quick getup it can easily fail although the knees > below of Bison’s body overlaps them. This shouldn’t be a problem at all with our updated PC, but you never know.
A quick final question: how do you guys quickstand? how do most people quickstand? do they tap tech multiple times or do they time it? I usually just tap throw twice and it does the trick. the problem with this setup is that the PC hitbox is so tiny that if the opponent techs late then they can easily make PC whiff. This setup is guaranteed to work though against opponents that tech EARLY as in within the first couple frames of the tech window.
I mash when I quick stand like you. Usually jab+short
i’d bet most people do, i mean why not. if so, the likelihood of this setup working goes up because it works best if they quickstand ASAP.
im so fucking excited to use this in super, the quickstand issue probably won’t matter and now we have a legit crossup technique. i mean how many knockdowns do we bison players score a match off of lk scissors? the mixup possibilities are awesome. it’s going to be an awesome 50/50. once you teach an opponent to block properly that’s when you start using lp PC and just hitting them from the front haha. the other great thing is that EX PC can crossup too but it’s in a sense harder because it’s so damn fast. that’s a good thing because that means we’ll be storing more EX meter. I’m betting our regular super combo is going to become much handier now that EX PC’s offensive capabilities can now be replaced at least half the time by regular PC, at least I hope so.
in the end it’s all we could ever ask for because skull diver crossup or DR crossup, although adding to legit mixups, there’s no reason why they couldn’t be beaten the same way they are, it’s just that they’d have to do it on the other side. PC crossup is a whole new ballgame and is way more of 50/50 in our favor. PC will be scary again, if only we could store back charge during throw animation we’d be set. they might have changed that though but maybe not. who knows.
I’m thinking that the new PC is going to help so much with AA because of its quick startup, I mean because most often when ppl jump in I have charge and with the new PC everyone will land on my legs or shoulders just aabout evertime(while in PC). I mean hp PC I’m starting to see is a pretty solid AA in SF4 and it trades well usually too. and since I see that PC looks like its gonna be faster startup it shouldn’t be hard to use on ppl who like to neutral jump.
Apparently jabs stuff tiger knees.
…
i wish i knew this earlier
^ checkmate?
Yeah I saw a video of Daigo doing it to Mago(stuffing TK with s.lp), and was like damn I wish Bison could stuff TK like that… and then i tried it in a match, and stuffed two TKs with s.lp so it works with Bison too:) woohoo! but its still risky I wonder how tight the spacing is? as I’v only done it twice and it was in battle so I’m not exactly sure.
^I stuff Tiger Kick (& shots) with S.MK IICR.
Nub question what move grants M.Bison an Untechable Knockdown?