Right i feel ashamed at myself for posting this request but im getting sick of the Shotos who start the match jumping back hk-ing and hit the corner jumping and HK-ing the whole match and beat you every single time in the air with HK spam.
How the fck do you get in on these idiots? And does Bison have anything that actually beats a shotos kicks in the air? Run away turtling ken eh, who would have thought it, followed by hate messages as id forgotten how to beat a tactic from Feb 09.
Secondly, whats the timing for Bison to safejump in on a downed opponent. I jump instantly and they beat me with dp. I dash fwd then jump and they either dp me or with chun for example get off the floor and are already kicking me out of the air when i was in the air first and they were still on the ground when i jumped.
These little things are beginning to annoy me. Can somebody go through the basics of how to jump in on a downed opponent or how to win air to air with Bison. Please.
Thanks. I have checked the match up thread. I am au fait with the match up basics but it doesnt mention what to do with certain odd and obscure tactics. I am basically asking what do you when you are beaten in the air every time by a shoto HK? How you tackle this particular running tactic? And finally what to do when your opponent is downed re jumping in. Everytime i jump in i get hit. Hell they can be on the ground whilst im in the air, get up jump up and hit me out the air.
neutral jump MK might beat it. It hasn’t lost to anything for me so far, whenever I hit it out early anything anyways. You should press it so they are jumping into your foot.
Just thought I’d share:
But I’ve been using a lot more c.mp lately. This thing rocks. It’s slower than c.mk for reaction pokes. But it’s fantastic for when you’ve connected a far reaching jump in since it reaches further. Does a bit more stun, too.
I’ve been stunning a lot more guys lately using c.mp > jab PC for punish.
Good for keeping pressure too if you’re out of c.mk distance.
Well timed headstomps if they’re just bouncing up and down like an idiot. You ought to be able to anti-air devils reverse if you time it right (and fly out of the way when you haven’t). And s.rh is perfect for stopping swatting the bastards out of the air on their way up.
Really though jumping in on most characters is a bad tactic until you mind-fuck them.
Yes iv realised after watching top Bison players that jumping in is not the best thing to do with Bison. Most decent players keep it to the ground. It appears you cannot jump in after a knockdown either as you always get AA by most of the cast.
i find that cMK xx scissors works pretty well on wakeup but bison needds to get mad creative and play more wakeup games that aren’t as easy to deal with as blocking low.
i think you’ve mentioned some of these before soviet, but here’s a fairly long list of what I do on wakeup, hopefully it ends up useful.
-standing strongxx (sortof) into headstomp/empty DR. we’ve all seen andre use it as a rest after a dizzy and focus attack. I think it’s a good thing to use on wakeup or during some intense battles because of how randomly you can use it and catch people off guard. confuses people because of the standing normal (guile has sonething like this i believe)
-dash up and feint aggression by jabbing or just walking into their downed body and then teleport when they get up. sometimes I actually get punished for this with random wakeup ultras, but good for some characters like shotos or gief. you can get them to waste some EX meter, an ultra, maybe even land the bait and punish.
-Focus Attack level 2, dash forward, cr. lks xx scissors, mix with throw
-Focus Attack level 2, dash back, punish
-Focus feint, dash up roundhouse (catch them trying to jump back)
-neutral jump roundhouse, if blocked, neutral jump roundhouse again and then blockstring or throw. neutral jumping after jumping always confuses me so I try and never forget that it’s a pretty decent mixup. esp good for grab mash zangiefs (getting an ultra in the middle of blocked cr.lks is probably the most frustrating thing ever)
-empty neutral jump, time it to do cr.lks as you land. this is to try and get them to block high and try and catch them when they realize they should block low
-after knockdown, deep slide, on wakeup cr.lk, standing fierce, cr.lk xx scissors. i dont think cr.lk links to standing fierce, it is just a feint while expecting them to block. if they don’t go into lks and then scissors, if it is blocked continue with the standing fierce.
-same as above except start with standing fierce.
-feint with whatever and then cross them up at the last possible second
-whiff crossups on shotos, punish whiffed uppercut (jump in fierce seems to work best)
-walk up, standing lk x2 . standing roundhouse (this is just about enough time to charge for scissors. you can gamble and throw one out after the roundhouse. I often catch people off guard with this.
-walk up, cr. forward, standing roundhouse
-walk away as a feint, dash up and do whatever
-lately i’m trying to take as much advantage of ‘blockstrings’ that give time for bison to charge and also non-charge combos. you can therefore dash up and do something like cr. lp st.lk cr.mk xx scissors or 3-4 cr.lks xx scissors. you can do any combo really and non-charge ones ending in roundhouse are really good. this can be mixed up with throws, pauses to bait reversals, pauses to bait counter hits, etc.
-analyze the way the player reacts to the above. mixup as appropriate. for example if I FAlevel 2 and cr.lk succesfully, next time I try it, I’ll dash back after to bait. next time I’ll use FA on wakeup again but now totally as a feint. dash back or up depending on how you think the other player feels, offensive or defensive.
I understand they can just block low, but generally at high levels, the best I can hope for is chip damage.
Most people are smart enough to see a whiffed DR coming, although I still do try (mixing it up with HS obviously).
I’m a little lost on that. How can you do a standing attack into HS or DR???
I do that to quite a bit actually, hence the whole “bait” part I put in. I don’t really teleport much. Backdash is so much sexier. I played a high level Blanka yesterday who kept throwing out his ultra EVERY time he filled his bar, and I stood next to him. Teleport, then thank him for my free ultra.
I do this from time to time, but it’s REALLY dangerous versus a lot of the cast. Most characters will just reversal either way. Hence why I am trying to learn to use his backdash more productively.
I actually really started trying to use this yesterday when I was fucking around online. While it’s somewhat good for mindgames, but I found that I was getting countered or fucked up far more than I was used to.
I do loves me my meaty slides, but quick stands kinda fuck with that.
I was wondering…if I meaty slide, then throw, and train him to expect it, then instead throw out a standing FP instead, and they try to throw me, will they succeed, or will they eat the FP? What about cMK or cLK instead? God, I wish my 360 worked so I could try it out
I need help with this one. EVERY time I try to crossup, I get nailed with a SRK or whatever. Which was awesome, cuz all but 1 game I played last night was vs Ryu.
Most of the time, those same moves do the same as cMK xx SK, but are more risky for me.
yeah none of those are go to moves, just things you can do if you want to, feel its safe, or want to gamble. i find that often you do have to gamble a bit with bison, even its just to read/train them.
charge down, back or neutral + strong punch, up + punch/kick for HS or DR. I think guile has something like this with flashkick.
yup as should I. I find this to be of great use for the gief matchup in particular.
as long as you’re not predictable about it I’d say its not a bad thing to do every once in a while. also kind of character dependent, but it’s something you can do. not particular to bison in anyway but useful sometimes nontheless.
after an untechable?
I need help with this one. EVERY time I try to crossup, I get nailed with a SRK or whatever. Which was awesome, cuz all but 1 game I played last night was vs Ryu.
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It’s kind of hard to do, I’ve only done it a handful of times and don’t try too often but since bison’s body is at a weird angle during jumping fierce you can avoid the uppercut if you do it right. it’s not really going to work often since you can might be thrown or punished worse if you fail.
if your opponent is quickstanding then you’re not going to have time to get into his face and have charge unless you want to do cr.lk or maybe if you’re fishing for a counter hit to link cr.lks into the cmk. if you want to poke him you can always walk up standing forward and keep a good distance but if you want to do more damage and keep pressuring your opponent, especially without charge, these are some options. I’ll try and check out the grabs vs fierce punch thing.
Be sure to just tap forward twice. I was double dashing when I first started messing around with it, too. After a while you get more and more calm with the inputs and you’ll get the hang of it.
i dont get your question, but to FADC scissors you just charge back, hit forward plus kick, and pretty much immediately hit mp + mk and double tap forwards. There is only one forward to activate the scissors and two forwards after hitting mp and mk to dash out.
I find it’s useful for breaking opponents guard, you can pressure a bit with cr.lks and then throw if you can’t hit confirm
PS, what is ‘stack’, not a term I’m familiar with.
EDIT: cool jim_kim, I find myself double dashing sometimes as well.
as for doing any standing normal before a HS, like I said, just do a HS like you normally would, just hit mp when your joystick is in the neutral or back position and simply follow through with the HS motion and hit up + kick.
so if HS= downback charge, up + kick
to do a standing attack right before a HS = downback charge, back + mp, up + kick, all in one smooth quick motion. Try it with a DR, it’s easier you can just hit MP twice at the right times.
Nice, never even thought to try that. Definitely not something you’d want to do too often, but … a mixup is a mixup. I was trying to do cLP xx sLP xx DR/HS since that would be a nice fakeout, but it doesn’t seem to want to work. Somebody else want to give it a shot?
I find it easier to roll the stick backwards in a 180 degree motion. I learned that from doing Guile’s s.hp xx flashkick.
I tried to see if headstomp would combo off of cs.hp awhile back, because the frames hint that it might. But even in the best case, it would be a 1-frame window off of a cancel (not even a link). cs.hp has 22 frames of hitstun and headstomp’s startup is 22 frames at minimum.
If they shaved like a frame or two off HS startup, it would be possible to do cs.hp xx EX headstomp for like 320 damage. j.hp, cs.hp xx EX-HS would do like 390, which is why I feel Capcom made the startup precisely slow enough so it wouldn’t combo. :sad:
