so… which one is closer to arcade
You never played Guitar Hero on a HD TV have you?
Well what if a person wants to FA absorb a fireball without giving away they are doing just that (Held FA)? They have to tap at the last second and dash but with enough lag input they will get hit by the fireball. Also Tech throws become almost more difficult to perform. If someone does a Kara Throw and you expect the throw your Tech is missed because you tried to tech later than what you visually saw. In Street Fighter there are some strict 1 frame combos that obviously will miss when applying them visually.
Add lag online to this issue and a laggy HDTV and of course the PS3 and you get a lot of bullshit. So even if the game is 100 percent the same visually it won’t register the same and every frame counts on Street Fighter. Every single one.
I guess this is related but while watching an interview with Uryo(Best Viper player), they asked him if he trains on consoles versions of SFIV. He replied by saying that he only plays in the arcades because it’s slower than the consoles versions.
Now this is coming from one of the best Viper players in the world and to say something like that should mean alot and I’m assuming by “consoles” in the interview, I think he meant the PS3.
I’m also assuming regardless of how good he is as a player, that he is human and prone to not looking at things factually. Not an insult to him, but it’s the truth. I’m inclined to believe him of course ~ one could feel the PS3 version is “quicker” if he is forced to react sooner to link combos due to a frame of input lag while the Arcade/360 would be more forgiving.
No, that’s a whole load of BS.
What the guy was saying is that once you begin to input a combo the timing is the same regardless of whether there’s lag or not. The combo will still work so long as your timing is correct. Now, the lag may mean that you do not get the FIRST move out in time for a situation where a reversal is possible in a very strict window (we’re talking absurdly strict), but if you land the first hit, the rest is a matter of timing no matter if there is lag or not. It all becomes relative after the first input.
Also, visual issues do not matter at all in regards to the discussion. 1 frame = 1/60th of a second. Your eye can not even notice that.
HDRemix
shinshoryuken:
If you have the time and resources, could you possibly do the same test for HDR (360 vs PS3)? I’ve been curious about this for the longest time.
Thanks
I miss 2-hit jumpin/sweep combos in ST and Alpha very frequently with 2 added frames of lag. With 1 frame, I miss it more often than normal. With 0 frames I never miss it. I don’t think I’m special in this regard. It is not really a matter of being able to see one frame, identify it, and do something with it; that’s pretty much inhuman reaction time. But being able to identify, then predict the necessary timing of something (like when to hit your buttons during a jump arc) can certainly be affected by even 1 frame of difference. During that jump arc (or the recovery of a move, or the travel of a fireball, whatever), your brain doesn’t just get one 16ms visual snapshot to work with, but dozens or hundreds.
You might be right about combo timing after the first hit, but really only with some people, with some combos. There are probably a good amount of people who can time their links with their eyes closed and not use any visual reference. Some people have a really hard time playing if they can’t hear the hits. Others have to see the animation to get the right “feel” for what to do and when. I imagine most people use some combination of the above, combining those sources of input to help them do what they need to do (whether they notice it or not).
No pro here but i definitely have noticed a small diff between the systems. My cousin has both an xbox and ps3, he always lets his friend borrow one of the two systems he owns. We always play sf4 on the same tv. Whenever his friend returns one of the two systems, he gives him the other. Now, when we play sf4 after the systems have been swapped i always tell him that there is a diff between the two but he always tells me to shut up and play because im too picky/complain too much.
I’m just glad i wasnt crazy. I don’t have a preference in either of the gaming systems but the xbox seems smoother to me.
This reminds me of how i used to play fps games back in the day with 56k, i used to have to predict where the enemy would be when i fired a shot to kill him (dont flame me for the crazy comparison lol). My friends who played in “lag free” servers always had a tough time in standard servers.
cool story bro… jk ;]
still no definitive answer on arcade speed vs consoles?
Shinshoryuken has these numbers:
Arcade: 4 frames
360: 4 frames
PS3: 5 frames
So far other tests perpetuate these 360 and PS3 results, but very few people have the arcade board to test, so right now we only have his results to go on. Lately when I bring these numbers up, people seem puzzled because the general feel in the US community has been that arcade felt more like the PS3 version. So, we wait for more results; probably in vain, because after next Tuesday nobody is going to want to spend time testing vanilla 4.
The thing is with the TypeX2 board, input lag can occur in 2 different ways, monitors and JVS IO controller.
Not all arcade cabinet have identical specs, the monitor and control board can differ.
My test involve using the Vewlix F with Sanwa T32H07S(KA) monitor and Taito JVS PCB. I don’t know how other cabinets will perform.
I tested Super on both consoles. 360 is still 4 frames, PS3 still 5 frames.
Test setup:
CRT: Sony GDM-FW900
Camera: Canon HV20 @ HDV 60i, shutter priority set to 60
Control: Xbox360 via VGA cable @ 720p, 1080p
Tested:
Xbox360 HDMI 720p, 1080p
PS3 HDMI 720p
360 version had a consistent input delay of 4 frames at either resolution via VGA or HDMI.
PS3 version had a consistent input delay of 5 frames at 720p via HDMI.
HDMI tests were done on the CRT via an HDFury DVI-D to RGB converter. The purpose of the 360 VGA test was to establish that there is no delay difference between straight VGA and HDMI converted to RGB via the HDFury.
Controllers were both wired; Microsoft-branded wired-only controller for 360, and attached SIXAXIS for PS3. FWIW other controllers (e.g. 360 TE, PS3 TE, Cthulhu) have not shown any more or less lag.
Tests were done on an original 60GB fat PS3 and a new 360 Arcade bought last month.
nice RoboKrikit!!!
glad someone else is doing actual testing and giving out actual data!!
well i don’t know, pc is definitly faster than xbox, (i can easily tell that by the different dashing timing) wouldn’t come out on xbox with pc timing.
had to dash a little later.
maybe arcade is 3 like pc
PC could very depending on the PC. There’s way too many variables to consider to just say, “PC is 4 frames!”.
All it’d take is a shitty USB controller, old LCD or cheap motherboard and you could end up with 7+ frames.
-Bean
There are three major components when it comes to input lag.
- Updates per second for the controller/stick. Most controllers such as the TE stick are plugged in via wire so there should be a at least 60 updates per second - more than enough.
- FPS. Having 1 frame delay on visuals is NOT going to impact your game. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between 59fps and 60fps!
- The one that matters most is the update of the game state per second and only Capcom can answer that question. I assume when people speak of frames they are talking about this variable?
I don’t think it is known what the USB polling rates are of the 360 and PS3, but obviously they are at least 60Hz. Note that it is a common misconception that all wireless controllers suffer from lag.
FWIW, I used a wired Microsoft-branded 360 controller and an attached SIXAXIS controller for my previous test. I get the same results for all the controllers I’ve tried though, including the TE, HRAP, etc, as long as no converters are involved.
I don’t mean to be flippant but if it’s not 1 frame, what is the threshold you subscribe to and how do you know it is accurate? At some point the lag affects someone’s game. It is between 0 and some number of frames. Lots of players that can hit 1-frame links notice when there is 1 frame or more of lag. It is not about literally seeing n frames of lag and being able to call out what number it is. There are a lot more data points for your brain to factor in. I posted something about this on the previous page.
Whether or not Capcom can tell us how much lag they think there is, we can and have tested the real-world input lag of SF4 and SSF4, and the results are repeatably different between PS3 and 360. Anyone with a camera that can produce 60fps video and the 360 and PS3 versions of the game can reproduce these results.
^ Truth!!
So far 3(me, robokrikit, & cables) of us have done the test and it showed a consistent result.
PS3 has an addition frame of lag compare to the 360…
and still people disagree because of their “theory” without doing actual testing themselves…
If those people really want to have a strong argument, they should take initiative and do some testing themselves before throwing out data that they took out of their asses…
Anyone test SF4 or SSF4 on a PS3 slim yet? If the latency has anything to do with USB, it could’ve changed with the redesign.
When I get a chance I’ll test out some other games, e.g. hdremix. I just got the 360 recently and don’t have any games besides SSF4 yet.