You can’t just take two chars’ ultras and compare them side-by-side. Often they serve different purposes. In this case, chun and boxer’s ultras are not in the same league. On top of having better combo potentials, both are way, way faster. Balrog’s is almost twice as fast, and chun’s is THREE times as fast. Gimme chun’s speed on bison U2, or Balrog’s reach on bison’s U1, sure I’ll take the charge motion and however much recovery you’d like, any day of the week.
as for blanka and honda
oh wait, I think I’m getting trolled. Fuck off troll, your credibility actually is shit despite what you seem to think.
Tournament players landing Bison Ultra 2 are not doing it on reaction, they’re prebuffering the motions to react to it because Psycho Punisher takes a longer time to come out.
Like I said, if it’s going to be a charge motion, I really feel the start up should be cut down to half to *match it up *to Chun U1, Honda U1, and Blanka U2. Those other Ultras work because their start up time is half the amount of Bison’s Ultra 2 and they have invincibility. Bison’s Ultra 2 does not.
maybe it goes through more fireballs now? U1 currently gets tagged by slower fireballs even though it has a bunch of invul frames, because its horizontal is crap.
Yes, all your credibility just went down the toilet. A Fei Long player with less than 3000 BP has no place on a Bison forum.
As for those charged ultras versus Bison’s. Chun Li and Boxer both have launchers to combo into, and if you still haven’t noticed, Chun Li’s U2 is a motion ultra dumbass. Bison has no launcher, no juggle, no real setups outside a guess. So if you want to land Bison’s U1 on someone, and they see you charged and ready, they won’t jump in on you retard. If U2 goes that same path there will be no possible way for it to be useful, due to the same crap.
U2 is useful as a motion Ultra, but still needs prebuffering to hit certain things on reaction or prediction. It has double the startup time of most other Ultras and only has 1 frame of invincibility and only fireball invicibility after that.
And how often do you see an effective Honda U1 land? Or Blanka U1? I only remember it being good for chip damage.
And until you show some of your Bison skills off, yeah, you have like zero credibility here. I’m done feeding this troll.
While it’s true that PP has basically twice the startup frames when compared to the other ultras I mentioned, it also travels increadibly fast in the air, and against most characters, it’s a moot point. I’ll explain why.
The only ultra that can be done fullscreen, of the ones mentioned above, and hit your opponent whilst avoiding a fireball entirely since it’s startup, is Blanka’s U2. The damage is crappy. This one is pretty similar to PP itself. Crappy damage, startup is irrelevant (easy to hit opponent on the entirety of the fireball frames, whether they’re startup, active, or recovery… it’s not important).
Chun-Li’s, Boxer’s, Honda’s… All have partial Fireball invulnerability, but they can’t be used from fullscreen and avoid the fireball while still hitting the opponent (unless I’m missing some odd situation in which the fireball is perfectly aligned mid-screen, and still enough recovery frames on Ryu&co to still be able to hit him, while avoiding the fireball at the same time… I’ve ran several tests in training mode, and couldn’t pull off such a result). Honda’s can be done almost Fullscreen as far as I know. Fireball must be at around 1/4th of the screen on Ryu’s side. But not 100%. At least not versus Ryu. Might be doable vs Ken, or Gouki’s Shakunetsu.
Anyhow… Why is startup irrelevant? Because the other ultras don’t avoid fireballs as safely as a PP does. They have invulnerability, and most of them are used safely at around 50-75% screen distance from the opponent. At that distance, you still have several recovery frames on Ryu’s Hadouken (depending on where the fireball is on screen, and supposing Ryu is in the corner), and still be able to catch him. What matters with those Ultras, is to time the invulnerability… not the fireball recovery frames. Most playes know by then that doing those ultras at fullscreen won’t get them any decent results, so they only attempt them at a decent range. Either after an FA dash, or advanced techniques like EX Upper Ultra cancel. Either way, TLDR: those ultras “don’t care” about the startup. What matters is the invulnerability, and the distancing.
Dic’s PP has double that startup compared to those ultras, and even then I can guarantee you it’ll catch an opponent on Fireball recovery from fullscreen if predicted correctly, and from 70% screen distance on reaction, with charge motion. I’m not counting with Guile/Deejay here. Chun’s probably not a safe bet either.
What they should do, though, is increase it’s damage slightly. But considering the amazing character he already is, I doubt they’d do that without nerfing something else.
The start up is relevent now because it’s a charge and it can’t be prebuffered. I already threw up some typical numbers for how and why Ultra 2 isn’t as good of a fireball punisher as it is on pure reaction. It’s all prebuffer and people choking into it. Other than that, there’s no real setups, combos, juggles that consistently go into Ultra 2.
Jumping Medium Punch gets out prioritized a lot as well by half the cast I’d say.
Gonna repeat this again from the year old Dictator request thread: Bison needs to be threatening with meter. Otherwise just sit back and punish Bison. If they’re gonna change (I won’t say nerf) it into a charge motion, and make it recover more on whiff, then hitting it should be faster since it has to pin point fireball users in the recovery frames from faraway.
Don’t get me started on Ultra 1 man, that needs a little bit more range as well.
You said it, not us. And yes, like Tony said, it can go through fireballs, but only close, faster moving ones. Nightmare Booster doesn’t travel horizontally as far as Chun, Boxer, etc.
And Pyscho Punisher if thrown out of random still gets you nailed out of it. There is the Half second Ultra camera cinematic, plus 24 (22?) frame startup. Throw out random PP, it can easily be blocked or jump kicked or some crap like that. And while it also can go nearly full screen, it only has FIREBALL immunity, you can still be knocked out of it. So you have almost a full second to react to it. This ultra is meant to punish stuff thrown out at random by complacent players, confident they have you pinned down with fireball or other tactics. Without the motion, we lose the ability to punish quickly and precisely without giving away our intentions. We are reduced to the same guessing tactics we have to use U1 with.
It’s a loketest I really don’t see them implementing this.Either way there is no harm in speaking up.I really like the quarter circle ultras for charge chars like now honda,bison and chun.I think they wanted to reduce the gimmicks and make him more linear. if you can believe it.You can antiair st.hk then 50/50 ultra, knockdown 50/50 ultra 2,throw 50/50 ultra 2 so I can see the adding recovery argument.U2 is versatile I just hate that if you want people to use U1 make it better.Give us a way to combo into it without having a character jump in.
Could be worse we could be cammy users.What I dislike is these are bolder changes than the ones implemented to the update notwithstanding the new ultras character received capcom should have tested earlier before releasing the consle version of this game. That is my gripe but I hope kim,kuma, and tuc and all the jap dictators let them know what this does to bison.With a qcf motion you have to fear it no matter what bison is doing.It takes away that fear which is the basis of the ultra.
dont worry about the loctest
im pretty sure if they did change it to a different motion there must be some logical reasoning behind it
maybe dictator will get something else in return
take everything u read in these patch notes with a grain of salt imo
Like less startup and more recovery. Give it 13ish frames on startup and I will love capcom even more. Or the ability to teleport cancel like Akuma does daydreams.
Looks like its time to jump ship fellas. Bison has no anti air, poor priority, no invincibility moves without using ex, a poor teleport which gets option selected to #$.