Okay, I had an idea. part of the reason the tier thread can get cluttered up at times is that match-ups are frequently discussed there, and conflating that with tiers causes issues, so it may warrant a separate thread.
This is the place to…
-Discuss counters to popular/dominating teams, shells, and characters
-Show evidence as to why something is a counter
-Make occasional jokes about match-ups (Includes MS Paint and GIFS)
-Discuss the weaknesses of certain characters and teams to overcome those weaknesses
THIS IS IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, THE PLACE TO
-Start petty arguments that have no relation to the topic
-Post tier lists/Make blanket statements that you have no knowledge of
-Discuss results or recent tournaments. There are other threads for that.
-DO NOT MAKE COMPARISONS TO OTHER GAMES (THAT STARTS ANOTHER ARGUMENT)
With the mandatory rules out of the way, let’s begin!
Can Vergil be countered by armor characters? I notice he lacks multi-hit normals, so he has to burn meter to control them because his normals won’t win the fight for him.
Deadpool needs to be the first topic. I just left the lab with him and I think he is really underrated for how good he is. What are his matchups like?
Vergil can only be countered by anything when he has 1 meter or less. Until then spiral swords makes him too strong. Come to think of it if they ever patched this game they can’t nerf it to bad because vergil wouldn’t be playable.
You know, I was thinking about making a thread like this for a while. I was thinking that we could use a more focused approach to analyzing the game, and so I’m glad this is here. But can I recommend a more thematic approach to this. The one thing I always notice about tier thread discussions is that they’re talking, discussion a particular character. Then BAM! Another question comes out of left field and the topic is changed. Dynamic? Yes. Productive? Not always. I was thinking this could be like a versus thread, where we could chose two characters (or shells), and compare movement, normals, specials, and hypers (plus assists, DHCs, TACs, THCs, and CCs for shells), and see how they match up against each other. (Like CosmicSpiral’s Hisen-ko vs. Morrigan post, still a good read.)
But to the question, I don’t think so. Sure at the start of the round, armor might give Vergil trouble. But as the match goes on, unless the player is burning every single bar they get, Vergil usually has more than enough meter to use either of his installs, and they usually last long enough for Vergil to open people up. Outside of that, Vergil does have projectiles at his disposal in Round Trip and Judgement Cut. While slow to start, they do offer good spacing and great advantage.
I don’t know. Like I said, even outside the trolls, topics seem to change like the wind in that thread. There often wasn’t enough time to properly analyze and break down a particular character before a new topic comes around. I can’t say I don’t feel the same (hence why I didn’t make one myself). But I believe this might be a better and more focused way to progress our understanding of the game and possibly learn something new.
To me if you want to properly ANALYZE character specialist would help and videos of some top players gameplay would help aswell to break down the mindset you have to have and the team construct. Anchor Strider vs Point Strider requires 2 different mindsets. One has a team supporting them and one is supporting the team. In any case I know me personally I have derailed conversations by asking about certain characters and the discussion doesn’t last more then a page so this would help imo.
Dunno, I just get the feeling that this thread is going to die like all the other threads that split off from the tier thread in order to stick to one topic.
But if you guys can get this to work, then good for you.
Deadpool is actually really good at zoning and runaway and has a good teleport. Against characters who are mauled by those things (Hulk, GR for example) he is pretty good. Unfortunately, his normals don’t involve swords so the priority on his normals is rather unimpressive, leading to issues against top tiers like Zero and Vergil.
Vergil’s teleport and ridiculous normals don’t cost meter and happen to be all he needs against the bottom 25. Swords comes in to play when we are talking about characters that can fight him somewhat at mid range.
Vergils normals still lose to armor and the inability to cancel without DT being in affect or spending a bar is a huge problem. Its not hard to bait vergil into doing something unsafe and then punishing him for it. Speaking of punishing as far a characters are concerned vergil seems to be one of the easiest to xfactor punish aswell.
Deadpool has some lackluster normals but his slide standing L and H are some bright spots in that aspect of his game. When looking at his play style though he plays hit and run style. His ability to cancel any move into teleport leads to having some of the safest options in the game. His teleport is fast and coupled with guns plus assist like BOLTs he can safely approach apply the mixup and then jet out before being punished. So having lackluster GROUND normals don’t really bother him. The thing is his teleport is like Arthurs gold armor when it hits time for that 3rd teleport he takes damage and is vunerable for long periods of time. That can also be looked as a detriment since he can’t play braindead and you have to actually think when playing deadpool.
personally witnessed this a lot, if the RR player is patient vergil shouldn’t be able to do anything during factor, RR just drops a super trap on the ground and says “come at me bro”
Can’t Vergil do his air teleport and just block on the way down in order to get rid of the trap? Yea sure he will have to deal with RR when he lands but wouldn’t he still be at advantage once the blockstun left because SS would still be active?
RR will be able to start a blockstring on him, possibly end with shrapnel trap? His shrapnel will go away if spiral swords gets a single hit on him though, and i’m not sure if shrapnel will activate before that happens, but if it activates RR will be able to keep him in blockstun until he decides to pushblock his way out. He also has H burrow, albeit a bit unsafe, it can burn the swords time down more and can be hyper canceled.
If the raccoon places his boulder trap down before vergil teleports, he’ll have to block the super trap and afterwards will get hit with an unblockable.
I play a lot of chris redfield his grenades and shit plus a lockdown assist to keep vergil still and control space while you set up is a great defensive strategy to vergils. Those assholes get stuck in fire every time.
Idk I think even on his own he’s not that bad if you know how to block. but i have hidden missiles and for a specific combo extender I have rr’s claymore assist
when it comes to armor i tend to let my assists stick it to them for a second before i go in. Otherwise focus on laming them out and not letting them get close
Idk if you run Chris/Doom/RR or Chris/RR/Doom, but I have some advice: Most Hulk players put all of their stock on Hulk. If you are having trouble keeping him out because he got the first hit, make it a priority to take back momentum by any means necessary. Do not be afraid to punish him with a snap back or XF cancel something and punish him. Once you have him away or off screen, set up your zoning game as usual.
For Nemesis, Chris wants Nemesis to block something. Try jumping and super jump gunshots while calling assists to make it hard for him to catch you.