As nothing but a follower/spectator, I totally support this petition.
Just wondering since I only just recently got into the fighter competitive scenes, but does single elimination exist at all in America?
I felt this way for MvC2, and I feel it for MvC3. Good suggestion.
Shit, you must be one stubborn son of a bitch to keep replying to me but refuse to intelligently respond. I’d even be happy with a link.
OK, fine we’ll do a test. To me when people bitch about damage they’re usually implicitly bitching about one of a few combos that easily lead to kills like Magneto or Wolverine so here are the damage values for one of the most commonly used Wolverine 1 touch combo currently:
Air Throw, :df:
XFC :l::h::s: jc :h: xx Drill Claw ~ Dive Kick land :h::s: jc :h::s: land :df: Akuma Tastu :dp::l:xxFatal Claw
1.23 mil w/normal damage
1.14 mil w/low damage
962,100 w/lowest damage
Now to me that doesn’t look like a significant change until you’re comparing normal directly to lowest. So unless you’re advocating changing the damage setting to lowest you’re not going to see a significant effect on outcomes. You will, however have answered a new question that no one asked: “How do we keep Hsien-Ko, Morrigan, etc. from ever scoring a character kill again?”. How much damage a character is dealing is something that is best addressed on an individual basis as while people chose to highlight certain characters who can easily one touch kill there are many more who can’t (at least not feasibly) and a blanket damage reduction is actually going to make those who can’t worse while (see example above) not drastically effecting those who can. Also as I’ve banged on about in numerous X-Factor discussions as it is both the main issue with X-Factor and one of the biggest issues IMO with this game is the damage scaling minimum, i.e. something that I don’t think any other fighting game has ever done and for a good reason.
Well, even if MvC3 isn’t even close to be perfectly balanced, I’d say balancing was made thinking medium damage…
with low damage, Phoenix would be even more powerful than now as would be harder to get a kill on her before she gets those 5 meters…
that said, simply going into options and lowering damage would probably be a bad decision as it could make balance even worse.
3/5 matches in the other hand would be really nice if the timeframe for the event is enough to support the format, most of times it will as each marvel fight tend to last less than 2 minutes.
I’d say, run MvC3 in 3/5 format for every match when you have time for it.
took about about an hour and half or 2 hours more than usual
the fact being if you change all the pool play and top 8 to 3/5 you are forcing the constant to be 3/5. Weeklies would have to change to become 3/5, because weeklies are supposded to prep you for majors and if they aren’t using the same rules then your mindset could lose you your match in a major tourney environment. You know most scenes aren’t blessed with ample setups and 100% efficent tourney staff, so an added fight or two adds up extremely quick.
When you guys are talking “oh its just one or two more matches” condsider how that would play out at evo. Adding 3/5 would mean there would be around 1,000 more matches played minimum.
I understand you guys want tournaments to become 3/5 because you feel the game is random or damage is too high or both. But honestly you guy’s have no-one to blame but yourself for losing, because if I see someone say " I could’ve beat that scrub, had I been given more time to adapt!" I don’t see an intelligent player making a point, I see a salty loser.
THIS
Yes a blanket damage nerf is quite regretable and making the bad characters a little worse is very much so. I wish we could have every character in this game be as viable as the next. But bad characters are bad and that’s just the fact of the matter. Besides their damage is getting nerfed considerably less with a lower damage setting since their damage is already lower. This can be easily represented, 2(base damage)x.75(damage modifier on lowest)=1.5(a loss of .5). OR. 1(base damage)x.75(damage modifier on lowest)=.75(a loss of .25). Lower tier characters strike me more as having a problem with movement, hard to block mix-ups, and holes in their gameplay that are hard to fill. Damage nerf doesn’t change that.
I don’t know why you used a x-factor combo to portray your point. But it helped portray a small point of mine. Now x-factor wolverine can’t kill characters higher than 962k w/o spending more meter. Which to me is a pretty significant change. Right now the only difference in killing hulk and killing magneto in an x-factor combo is how much meter your obtain in the process, which I personally think is absurd.
@Phoenix getting stronger: I’m actually glad someone mentioned this because I hadn’t thought of it off the bat. But at the same time, everybody will still have a combo to kill her. She’d be one of the few characters you could still kill with one meter and no x-factor. Idk it’s hard to say how this would play out without seeing it in practice. I think it would play out much of the same way with some small differences here and there regarding random hits. Which i think should do less damage anyways. But that’s just my opinion.
<Insert more pointless snark here>
So really, we’ve gone and made things even less lenient, something everyone wants and praises old school fighters for anyway. I’m still failing to see anything out of this argument that isn’t “let me make more mistakes.” May as well add a second comeback mechanic to the game.
My take on this is the single fact that damage is high in MvC3 isn’t the issue, its that fact that any stray hit leads to a dead character half the time. If people actually practiced their combos, stray hits would lead to ToD’s 100% of the time. Also, due to absurd range/invincibility/built-in mixups with alot of the cast’s (especially the top tier) moves, you don’t actually need to read or predict your opponent to land that hit. Alot of times this game is more about how well the player can exploit the MvC3 engine, as opposed to how well they can exploit the other player. It’s almost like two people happening to play the same one player game at the same time. Which means skill still mostly determines who will win, but skill doesn’t quite mean what it means in other competitive fighters.
Exploitation of the engine in general is how fighters, or any game for that matter, are played at a high level. Likewise you’re still reading/predicting your opponent even with these absurd moves. I would argue that because of those ridiculous moves the game’s focus is more on the mindgames and strategy and less on other areas.
What? This doesn’t even make sense. Skill is skill across the board. You may as well tell Viscant that a victory at EVO in MvC3 is less impressive than one at any other game.
Imma ask a question guys. I want yall to think about this.
You making a game, which is suppose to be a fast pace game, longer because you guys don’t like how fast it is? ITS MAHVEL BABY!!! Its suppose to be a fast pace game.
I for one like how fast the game is, even if I go 0-2. #kanyeshrug
On that note, single elimination, come at me.
It would be really cool to see. I don’t think a petition is necessary but i would like to see someone try it.
Of course this would be at the cost of tournament schedule.
We should single elim for all games then right?
If you can’t adapt in 1 round, too bad, get better, don’t get hit.
Yeah, you could kill her with most characters and a BnB into super even if she had 50% more life, so she’d have 600k…
The problem in this isn’t just killing her, you also have to kill her partners…
with reduced damage, you’d HAVE to snap her in or she’d transform every time… with reduced damage, imagine someone chooses, Thor/Hulk/Phoenix… if you don’t snap her in, how mant meters would you fill for her team just killing Thor and Hulk even if they don’t move at all? If Hulk had 50% more life he would have 1,8kk… you’d probably fill 4 entire meters for him just by comboing him to death.
Here’s something to think about
MvC3: 1 round, best 2 out of 3 games, at most you play 3 rounds
SF: 2 out of 3 rounds, best 2 out of 3 games, at most you play 9 rounds
Tekken/VF/SC/KoF: 3 out of 5 rounds, best 2 out of 3, at most you play 15 rounds
Marvel deserves a 3 out of 5 format.
Fucking christ you are making too much sense right now. This 10000000000 times.
Its not like its single elimination. You can adapt for the next round. If you get hit by Wolverine’s dive kick option select, then you can pick something that counters that or you can avoid it in some way… right?
Good point.
Talking with other top players about the issue earlier I agree with this more now. The reason top level players win is because they win despite the circumstances and just prepare their teams in a way so they always have at least something. It’s almost as if top players honestly just have so much of a “ima win” attitude that it just reflects when the play. I personally don’t think that’s the best thing for a game like this but maybe that’s why they win.
I’m at the point where I’ll just move on to playing other games more seriously when they come out any ways. According to the poll there’s a lot more in favor of 3/5 than 2/3 for this game (and I’m sure people will mostly feel the same about UMVC3). In the end though it would be up to tournament runners to decide and still like before…up to tournament players to adapt regardless. I only really like this game because it’s fun to try stuff in. Competitively…2/3 this game just isn’t fun for me and I doubt UMVC3 will be much more fun for me 2/3. 2/3 it’s just too much to worry about for my tastes. I’d rather do 2/3 in KOF13 because at least you’re guaranteed to play all 3 characters or in Skullgirls where the game most likely be less random momentum swing kill off one or 2 characters shit.
I just think at least for top 8 of a local tournament or top 32 at a major 3/5 wouldn’t be bad for this game at the very least. I just feel like if you can get to a point in a tournament where time wouldn’t be an issue for 3/5…that it wouldn’t hurt for a game like this to be done 3/5 at that point so there’s more to do than just get characters and resources chopped up for 2/3 fights. I just don’t see what would be wrong with being able to play your point characters a little more often and getting more of a feel for the opponent.
Overall I’ll go with whatever the tournament runners decide to do either way. If KOF13 and Skullgirls are both out and UMVC3 still isn’t 3/5 for at least top 8…I’m most likely moving on. I think the game is really fun and everything on a play by yourself kinda standpoint. It’s just I also know that I personally won’t like 2/3’s even at a local top 8 in this game even when UMVC3 is out.