go play vf
go play 3s
“Ya ok people dont really say either, ok dodging it there, but anyways, your 3s mind games are way too simplified. 3s is also about “I am making you think I am going to do this, therefore u will counter with this, therefore I can counter with that.” or “I am making it look like I am doin this, but its so obvious to a point where u might think : damn this is too obvious!! he must be tryin to fake this! then I go ahead and do the obvious move” just something as simple as doing certain things to inprint in ur opponents mind, then confuse them accordingly”
Do you have a problem with reading? I know your name is Aneurysm. Did you have one? As I have said over and over again and you just confirmed it for me. “I thought you would do this, but you did that and boy was I surprised!” There is nothing even remotely approaching multi-level mind games. I like how you think that it’s somehow deeper to eliminate multiple levels of thinking.
This is exactly what’s been pissing me off throughout the entire thread. You didn’t read or didn’t understand. And if you claim to have been playing since the beginning you really should know better. It isn’t a difficulty grasping the concept of the game. When I still played the game (when SHGL was open) I won tournaments at it (won 2 out of the first 3 actually, yay for Alex). And despite 2i being one of the more retarded games ever made, I played the shit out of it and it was probably the first non-Marvel game since ST I actually got really good at. It’s not that I don’t understand the concept, it’s that I DO understand it and I recognize it as a step back in tems of mind games. The fact that you would fall back on this argument and not even TRY to answer me in terms of sophistication of mind games is really sad. At least try to fight back.
EDIT:
In regards to parry like mechanics, the level of risk has to properly match up with the level of reward. For example, when NG came out, the first thing people said on the newsgroup was “that blue flashy thing better be at least a qcf or this game is shit”. (Ironically NG would be broken by mashing qcf because the game read it as inputting a high and low parry at the same time! Top game!) I’ve always theorized that parry would be much better if it were a double tap and missing one was like missing a Geese counter. In this case you’d dash forwards if you missed a high one and lay down if you missed a low one. According to the parry advocates who didn’t think their arguments through, this would be the same thing since if you miss “you get hit” but to people who are thinking this through, this gives you a tangible miss. And interestingly enough, this would still be about twice as safe as missing a DP.
Anyways, I think this whole thing is going in the wrong direction although really by necessity. You can’t really have a 2-D fighting game anymore without a “gimmick” and people will judge the game based on what the gimmick is. Like SvC could have been a normal game, but the gimmick was guard cancel and that was obvious shit, so the game was trash (although fun to play Mexicans for money with my Geese). The main reason for this is like in the CFJ example. So few people are willing to actually get into a game and understand what makes a 2-D fighter tick that everyone will write it off as something they’d already seen. So putting in some kind of gimmick is fairly necessary.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t really work. It’s almost impossible to argue that the best 2-D fighting game ever produced was Hyper Fighting. We’ve been going in the wrong direction ever since.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Jay is right, I love 3S and find it to be rather enjoyable but alot of what he says is what Jason told me years ago. Just back then I was way to knew to the genre and really didnt see what he meant. Now that ive played it more and more I start to understand just what there saying.
What if parrying was done the way Jam does in #R (back then foward)?
I myself don’t like parrying in 3S, and would enjoy it far, far, far more if it wasn’t there, but I take it as is. A basic game of rock, paper, scissors, though as someone already mentioned, there’s no scissors to speak of. I like playing characters with long ranged pokes, but parrying pretty much does away with that all together. I mean come on, if you jump on me, you’re going to eat some normal / special that will get you off of me. Where the hell are MY defensive options when you can simply press foward to do away with them? On top of that, it forcibly brings up the rock, paper, scissors scenario again, in that I have to cycle through whatever anti-airs I have that would catch you off guard, thus having it so you can’t parry it accordingly. I’m not allowed to even think past that point because the parry is keeping me from doing so. That shit should come naturally. Hell, I think characters like Remy would be far more deadlier / annoying without parry; imagine the lock down potential you could have the guy.
Anyways, hit, throw, parry. Hit beats throw, parry beats hit, throw beats parry. Repeat.
I agree with Viscant 100%, even if you don’t agree with him, he sums up why a lot of the old school players basically hated sf3 at first. some of the og’s like it now (like watts, maybe) and some dont. i personally never really liked 3s really, (partially because Alex was trash in ALL 3 SF3 games, and that’s the only reason why i even play sf3 now,) but now i guess it’s okay…it can’t be all that bad if so many people are playing it. people who used to hate sf3 series at first like it now (like ricky and justin,) but maybe that’s because they’re winning. 
but seriously, the pro 3s arguments are really kind of bad, cmon guys. how come every time a 3s advocate talks about why sf3 is better than any other game, they must always bring up seriously retarded examples, like the typical pro-3s complaint of og sagat fireball spam in old school games…which ive seen in this thread too. do you know how hard it is to even position/space yourself correctly to throw “fireball spam” without seriously getting fucked up? even with og sagat? players like Valle and Choi, seriously always knew how and when to throw fireballs without getting punished, which is something to this day i’ve never been able to truly master, i don’t know how they do it. Also, the fireball’s strength has been seriously dimininished in every upgrade of a SF game, like A2 to A3. Ryu’s FB had a large hitbox/speed in a2, and then in a3, it seriously got toned down in so many ways…go watch daigo vs masumi matches in a3 for example, and watch how many times he uses fireballs in close range as a footsie move against masumi, at point blank range…believe me, that is not easy…
I like Chibi’s idea of Parry like Jams in GG.
I’m start to not like SF3 base on the fact that its just a guessing game.
I like JDing in Garou damn it…
Throw beats roll, roll doesn’t beat anything, it just evades it.
I like the way you said that, 3S is the only game I know that made most normals and specials shitty(read: sluggish, obtuse, stupidly susceptible to blocking), but also good by virtue of the fact that they completely beat out other heavy-handed tactics(read: missed parries). There aren’t enough shades of Grey in 3S.
I think parries have to be retarded as an incentive to use them. If they were just “ok” and netted you some jab worth of “auto-damage,” people would just play 3S as a shitty old-school game and get tired of using “shitty normals.” The game is how it is for a reason: to play rock, paper, scissors.
I still like the game alot, but it doesn’t feel like SF to me.
FIREBALL TRAPS FOR LIFE!!
Everytime someone counters your arguments you just keep saying the same thing: “You’re not reading. I’m pissed off. I hate life.” The truth is there are multi-level mind games in 3s, if there weren’t, the game would be totally random, as would tournament results, which is obviously not the case.
Your logic is killing me. Parry doesn’t beat anything by that logic; it just evades it. All you did was take the original SF rps and replace block with parry.
What?? Whatever buddy, its ok to be disagreeing with me, but your ST example isnt much of “mindgames” either, if u think it is then this discussion will never get anywhere cuz obviously we are not even at the same page as what mindgames are. Ya 80/20 85/15, so these number are quaranteed now. If u were Vega then u would want Blanka to walk forward since u are at an positional advantage, so doing KKK and making Blanka walk forward is what u call sophisicated mind games… Parrying adds to the mind games in 3s, it works for 3s. In 3s every little character movement is mindgames because its really hard to play defence, you have to be aware of everything your opponent can do against you, at the same time u have to work hard to open a player up. ST doesnt have the same quality of animation as 3s so it will work differntly. ST doesnt need parrying cuz its a different creature all-together, but I fail to see the sophistication that you like to embrace in that game.
Bah, you have a point. I mean it in the sense that the fight is taking place close up, or at least within sweeping distance, where parrying would be most beneficial, instead of completely across the screen.
You know, every time I think I know exactly what the most retarded thing ever said on SRK is, someone has to go and top me.
Read what you just said. Multi-level mind games would result in random tournament results, since there are so many facets and options it becomes a game of chance. It’s true that you can finesse your game, but the X-factor is huge. A good example of a game with mucho mind game levels is poker. You’re alone with your hand until you fold. A whole lot of shit can happen between dealing and folding.
3s is not about mind games at all. “I knew you knew I knew you knew” is not a mind game, it’s a fucking Get Smart episode.
Master chibi: 3s games is unique in that throws don’t actually beat anything, or serve any real purpose, since they’re so easy to break.
“Everytime someone counters your arguments you just keep saying the same thing: “You’re not reading. I’m pissed off. I hate life.” The truth is there are multi-level mind games in 3s, if there weren’t, the game would be totally random, as would tournament results, which is obviously not the case.”
No, you are completely and totally wrong. I’m asking for an example of multi-level thinking like in other games. You respond saying the same people win the tournaments. That’s apples and oranges. Nobody is countering anything, I’m saying that the level of mind games in 3s never gets above “I thought you would do this but you did that and boy was I surprised” and then you two say I’m wrong, then say exactly what I just said with different words.
This is why I’m seriously questioning your reading comprehension levels. Either you’re deliberately trying to piss me off or you genuinely don’t understand, in which case, I’m really scared.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
@ Danny:
Ah.
Well then I suppose I need more work then, I haven’t gotten accustomed to the abnormal amount of times people want to throw me in this game.
Also, that last line of yours, sigged ~
“ST doesnt need parrying cuz its a different creature all-together, but I fail to see the sophistication that you like to embrace in that game”
And that is why you fail [/yoda]
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Can you just give me one, plain example of multi-leveled mind game in ST, and one in 3s, and we’ll go from there. I’ll admit I haven’t read through all of your posts, I don’t have 3 weeks to devote to this topic. But lets just throw down 2 simple cases to look at and compare we can go from there.
Damn. If I knew I was gonna be sigged, I wouldn’t have used contractions. Would have made it look more authoritative.
- Danny “Anger” Angerson GRRRRRR
I’m just curious what you think of Just Defending Mr. Snyder.
Being an abusive K groove user (in whatever damn game it’s available) I never quite looked at it in the same light as parrying.
(Sorry for going off topic)
~
Also, that’s incredibly rude. The man is putting a good amount of heart into the discussion and now you somehow have the nerve to put it in a negative light just because you don’t wish to do the same.