Pandora tech finding thread (ver 2013)

[Vulcan_Hades]

NINJA EDIT<br>
<br>
SFxT ver 2013 is finally out and Pandora is a brand new mechanic. That means we start from scratch.<br>
<br>
Pandora changes are as follows:<br>
<br>
-Pandora now lasts 10 seconds instead of 7.<br>
-Gives instant full stock instead of refilling gradually.<br>
-The teleport has been eliminated and now your partner appears right where your point was sacrificed.<br>
-Damage is multiplied by 1.15 no matter how much health you have left.<br>
-Has less startup/recovery frames. (not sure about the exact frames)<br>
<br>
<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTF_kG99z86vkOdqtH7CMvWzVlVZ4WEbX&feature=edit_ok” rel=“nofollow” class=“bbcode_url”>Pandora youtube playlist by Justice Soultuna</a><br>
(contains various 2013 vids from Desk, JST, myself and other contributors)<br><br>http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SpcZYhF4yuU<br>
<br>
<b>Pandora uses in combos:</b><br>
<br>
<b>Pandora gem setups:</b><br>
<br>
<b>Pandora uses outside of combos:</b><br>
<br>
<br>
Archive of the old mechanic: <a href=“Pandora tech finding thread (ver 2013)” rel=“nofollow” class=“bbcode_url”>Pandora tech finding thread (ver 2012)</a>

[Juri_kills_friend]

thank you very much for this post. I’m in the process of researching pandora tech and hope i can too contribute any new finds.

[roknin]

Really great work man, and definitely good to have it consolidated to its own thread. Should probably be stickied. :rock:

[JusticeSoulTuna]

Fantastic post dude. And thanks for featuring my vids here too. Still trying my hardest to figure out new ways to make Pandora work. Unless they do anything to it in ver.2013 then we’ll have to keep brainstorming. And to be honest at this point I dunno if I want them to change it, haha. Still, great post.

[Vulcan_Hades]

[details=Spoiler]I know there were a couple of threads on Pandora before, but I still felt like this thread was necessary. I want this to be a collection of everything that has been found so far about this mechanic. Because a lot of precious information has been lost in the old general thread or spread around in various other threads. So I want to regroup everything here so everyone can be on the same page and use this as a base to get ideas if they want to explore the mechanic further and contribute their findings about it. (Plus I can actually edit OP to add the new stuff you guys find)

1. Pandora in combos:

The most basic/recurrent use of Pandora is to activate it in a combo after a ground/wall bounce. You can also combo into Pandora after a counter hit crumple/stagger as shown here by JusticeSoulTuna:
[media=youtube]w1W6zI8N8Ps[/media]

And if your character has a jump cancel, they can jump cancel into Pandora.

looking for a short video showing this. I remember Desk did one a while back

Video from boita-carton showing examples how you can get a lot of damage for only 1 bar of meter utilizing wall bounce + Juri’s c.hp jc j.hp while Pandora refills meter:
[media=youtube]nhpEb1P9zGU[/media]
Note that some characters have meterless wall bounces (Christie, Lei Wulong etc.) which means a Lei/Juri team could easily do well over 600 damage for no meter at all. And I’m sure Juri isn’t the only one who can juggle the opponent for a bit until you get 2 bars for Super.

alexlkq showing a flashy yet practical use of Pandora in a real match:
[media=youtube]WnqHLmt3i_w[/media]

Pandora combos don’t need to do more damage than your strongest combo, it just needs to be able to do something that you otherwise cannot. For example if you can do a 600 damage combo that will kill the opponent with a 1 bar pandora combo, then it may be worth it if you can only do a 400-500 damage combo with that 1 bar and not kill them.

old vid from Alioune showing a crazy punish from Lili to Nina:
[media=youtube]AsnI7ub9ySM[/media]
(Not sure if this is still possible)

Suggested gem setups:

A) no.24(immense power 3)+no.
Deals more damage than B if raw Super is used. But less damage in combos. Has the advantage of getting a damage boost to Super outside of pandora.

B) no.24(immense power 3)+no.60(super boost effect)
Deals more combo damage but has the disadvantage of requiring an additional meter and eating all your gem slots. Deals less damage than A if raw Super is used.

C)

JusticeSoulTuna shows some of his personal preferred gem setups:
[media=youtube]8IrSg7VKoWc[/media]

2. Exploring different uses of Pandora outside of combos:

Pandora sacrifices point character and teleports the partner somewhere in mid-range. If you are close from your opponent when you activate pandora, your partner will be teleported backward. If you are far/full screen when you activate pandora, your partner will be teleported forward.

What this basically means is that your partner will likely not be in close range and might need to use a long range move to reach their opponent in time. The easiest way to get around this problem is by activating Pandora after a wall bounce instead of a ground bounce. And obviously, if you are in the corner when you activate pandora, your partner won’t be affected by this.

However, the “pandora teleport” can also be used to your advantage as shown in this video:

[media=youtube]aztnIcdOmJg[/media]
(skip to 1:32 for uses outside of combos)

Pandora (i.e. having 25% health or less), gives you the power to:

1. Anti-air what is normally impossible to anti-air (including dive kicks, tricky cross-ups, air fireball etc).
2. Full screen punish what is normally impossible to punish from full screen (raw tag, projectiles, CADC etc).
3. The ability to avoid certain deaths (if the opponent wants to chip you with DP, you can activate pandora, avoid what would normally be an inescapable death and full combo punish)
4. Do well over 400-500 damage punish for no meter at all (since Pandora gives you infinite meter)
5. The ability to EX CADC as much as you want making your mixups, oki and resets a lot more powerful.
6. Get an ambiguous cross-up on reaction to tech roll.

Roknin showing how Pandora can help you avoid certain death:

[media=youtube]Bg6PIOHEhDg[/media]

Same idea by Jibbo: http://www.twitch.tv/automattock/c/1609126

Roknin showing how you can use Pandora teleport to avoid and punish a cross-up or airborne move during its landing frames:

[media=youtube]ig42aUvEgMc[/media]

JusticeSoulTuna showing the advantage of activating pandora while in the corner:
[media=youtube]2U-IxrVHatk[/media]

List of things that are punishable by Pandora on reaction (all were tested in training mode):

Airborne special moves:
-Akuma’s air fireball (your partner needs a long reaching + projectile invincible Super or EX move)
-Akuma’s demon flip stuff
-Air tatsus (hard unless they do it high from the ground)
-Bob’s EX Giga Jacker
-Cammy’s Dive Kick
-Claw’s Flying Barcelona Attack (partner has enough time to dash and full combo punish)
-Dhalsim’s air teleport (back teleport is the easiest to punish, forward teles are trickier because Sim can Sniper you if you’re not fast enough)
-Dictator’s Headpress (partner can combo with an 8 start up normal)
-Dictator’s Devil Reverse (partner needs to dash and needs a nearly full screen move like Ryu or Jack-X’ supers)
-Guy’s Elbow Drop (your partner needs a long reaching Super or EX move because Guy can just stop his elbow short)
-Hugo’s Body Splash (partner can combo with a 6 start up normal)
-Hwoarang’s Air Raid (all versions, partner needs a long range move with around 8 start up or less vs LK version)
-Juri’s Dive Kick
-Lili’s Dive Kick
-Rufus Dive Kick (only if it’s done relatively high from the ground)
-Zangief’s Body Splash (you need Jedi reactions + partner needs a long range move/poke with 5 startup or less)

Grounded special moves:
-Boxer’s dash punches (any version, partner needs a long range move with around 6 start up vs LP dash punch)
-Blanka’s Beast Roll
-Christie’s EX Stinger (you need Jedi reactions)
-Dictator’s Psycho Crusher
-Julia’s Lashing Arrow/Swift Step Explosion
-Julia’s Swift Step (partner needs a long range move with 5 start up or less)
-Law’s Dragon Flight
-Paul’s Mortar Punch (partner can combo using a 10 start up normal)
-Poison’s EX Love Me Tender (you need Jedi reactions, partner can combo with a 10 start up normal if you activated midscreen)
-Poison’s Backflip (partner needs a nearly fullscreen super/ex move with 5 start up or less)
-Rolento’s Mekong Delta Attack (input or no input)
-Rolento’s Mekong Delta Air Raid (MP and HP version only, follow up or not)
-Rolento’s Mekong Delta Escape
-Zangief’s PPP Lariat (you can bait it with a projectile, then activate Pandora)
-Zangief’s Green Hand (partner can combo with a 10 start up normal)

Projectiles that can be punished from full screen:
-Akuma, Ryu & Ken
-Alisa (partner needs a nearly fullscreen and fast move like Jack-X or Chun Li’s Super)
-Chun Li
-Dhalsim
-Guile (you need Jedi reactions or a fast Super/EX move)
-Ibuki (only if she doesn’t jump back to throw kunais)
-Jin (timing is strict vs HP version since your partner is teleported right under it)
-Poison
-Raven (you need Jedi reactions)
-Rolento (knife needs to be thrown high enough from the ground)
-Sagat
-Sakura
-Steve (kinda hard for some reason)

Obviously, your partner needs to have a projectile invincible Super or EX move with enough range.

Normals & Strings:
-Dhalsim’s Limbs (you need Jedi reactions and a long range move with 5 start up or less)
-King’s Elbow Rush (no matter if he goes overhead or low with c.lk)
-Marduk’s Backhand Punch (your partner has time to jump in heavy or dash and combo with a light/medium normal)
-Marduk’s fs.HK
-still testing…

CADCs that can be punished from full screen:
You activate Pandora from full screen on reaction to their Charge Attack (ex: they’re trying to store a counter hit or just build meter), then all they can do is dash cancel forward or backward and try to block the super/ex move in time. edit: be wary of characters with armored CA! (Hugo and Zangief can absorb 1 hit so they don’t need to CADC and block).

Characters who can’t catch any CADC backward (when pandora is activated from full screen): Abel, Akuma, Asuka, Blanka, Bob, Boxer, Christie, Claw, Cody, Dictator, Elena, Guile, Guy, Hwoarang, Ibuki, Jin, Julia, Juri, Kazuya, Ken, Kuma, Lars, Law, Lei, Lili, Marduk, Nina, Paul, Raven, Rolento, Rufus, Sagat, Sakura, Xiaoyu, Zangief…

Below are characters with fast+long range Supers/EX moves tested vs Xiaoyu, Law and Akuma’s CADCs since they seem to have some of the fastest backdash cancels in the game:

-Jack-X catches everyone I’m pretty sure.

-Heihachi too.

-Bryan’s Super is unblockable and travels full screen. He catches everyone who tries to CADC backwards. But some characters with quick and short dashes (e.g. Akuma, Ryu, Ken, Xiaoyu, Law, Yoshi, Juri etc.) can dash cancel forward and crouch in time to avoid the Super.

-Cammy’s Super seems to be able to catch everyone’s CADC except for Xiaoyu and Law. Others with similar backdashes might be able to avoid/block her Super too.

-Yoshimitsu’s Super catches: Abel, Cody, Hugo, Jack-X, Ken, King, Kuma, Heihachi, Ogre, Paul, Raven, Ryu, Sagat, Yoshimitsu, Zangief. (aka backdashes that travel the smallest distance)

-Chun Li and Raven never get the full Super animation.

-Dudley’s EX MGB catches any CADC attempt easy.

-Ryu’s Shinkuu Hadoken was unable to catch Xiaoyu and Akuma’s CADC in time but he caught Yoshimitsu.

-Ogre is able to catch Hugo’s CADC with EX Owl’s Hunt but not much else.

-Poison is able to catch Hugo’s CADC with EX Love Me Tender but not much else.

Raw Tag
-Universal

Partner either needs a Super/EX move with some range or the ability to dash and jump in before the opponent has recovered from raw tag (so basically depends on how far/quickly they can dash and how much range their air normals have).

I will of course keep editing this post. Please post any video or post that you think should be added to OP. I will search for more videos later.[/details]

[JusticeSoulTuna]

Great point. I think the thing that ails most people when using it, myself included, is the incredibly risk when you activate it because it means no mistakes or else. I’ve realized that for me personally the best time to activate it is when the opponent is at around 50% and there’s about 20 seconds left, and only when it feels like there’s no other options. For example the other night I baited my friend into DP’ing me and Pandora’d so it whiffed, instantly did crouch medium into super. And it hurt, but sadly he had about 60-70% health so it was a wasted effort. But I feel like in situations like that perhaps where, like you mentioned, you can gain an advantage by using it to do what normally can’t be done it’s useful. The problem is only the conscious choice to activate it more than anything else.

[Vulcan_Hades]

Yeah, for me personally… I still find it hard to think about Pandora when I’m playing.

Because when I’m at 25% health or less, I’m not exactly thinking: “Alright, I can do this! Bring it chump, Imma Pandora your candy ass into space!”

I’m thinking: “OMG I’M GOING TO DIE! Quick I need to think of ways to get this character out so he can recover his grey health and bring my high health character in!”

That’s the other problem with Pandora: Our instincts and logical/rational thinking goes against what Pandora is asking us to do.

[roknin]

But I feel like in situations like that perhaps where, like you mentioned, you can gain an advantage by using it to do what normally can’t be done it’s useful. The problem is only the conscious choice to activate it more than anything else.

Agreed so much. That’s been my problem in actual matches; I only recognize it after the match is over. “I could’ve pandora’d and punished that hard!” But during the match, Pretty much the same as Vulcan said (bail out! bail out! switch characters!).

It’s definitely a change in mental attitude. I’m trying to find that mindset I had when playing KOF 98, where I could look up, see I’m bleeding as say “okay, next hit I can go balls out with these infinite level-1s,” but it’s so much dicier since after Pandora’s timer is gone, you lose.

It’s an interesting balance to strike.

[JusticeSoulTuna]

2 things. 1: Jin’s Pandora drains faster than anyone else’s…I thought I was imagining it, or it was based upon the length of his super but seriously, when Lars is just waiting his Pandora takes ages to finish, but Jin’s one is visibly faster. Which leads me to believe that characters have DIFFERENT PANDORA LENGTHS.
2: I’ve figured out some new tech and will be making a video soon. It seemed hella simple so I’m surprised no one’s thought of it. I’ll post it here ASAP

EDIT: In regards to the first point I made it’s strange…When I Pandora from Jin to Lars, Lars lasts longer. However when I Pandora from, say, Jin to Kazuya, Kazuya’s one lasts as long as Jin’s does. Ryu as well. Hm…I don’t know what this means, I’ll keep looking into it.
EDIT2: Now it looks like they’re the same length. Maybe I’m just confused, but I could’ve sworn I saw that Jin’s was faster. Anyways, I’m still making the video regardless

[DocDignity]

Actually, now with the changes and Dudleys Super connecting more often it could be possible to go with my other char into Pandora, then Dud ExMGB - jHK - crHK - Super for huge damage from full screen whiff/ CADC punish…am I right? Does that sound realistic?

[JusticeSoulTuna]

And here it is guys, an answer to the Pandora spawn issue. As usual, it’s kinda conditional, and like we’ve mentioned in this thread the onus is upon you to choose to do this, but I feel like this is one of the much easier things to do in Pandora, and it relies on what the opponent does. Even though this video focuses on DPs, I express that there’s possibilities for other punishes when in the corner (or midscreen with a good super). Check it out:

[media=youtube]2U-IxrVHatk[/media]

[DocDignity]

Interesting find. Now I can Pandora with Gief if my Duds is in the corner to punish… Everything?

[Vulcan_Hades]

Interesting find. Now I can Pandora with Gief if my Duds is in the corner to punish… Everything?

Well yeah… but you could already do that without Pandora lol. But Pandora does add some extra damage. However depending on your gem setup and character you use, it might be wiser to not activate Pandora right away. Some teams can do more damage by just doing a normal punish into ground/wall bounce or whatever then activate pandora and combo into Super.

Unfortunately, the chances of opponent throwing a DP when you’re in the corner without tag canceling it are pretty low. At least in my experience. Good players aren’t so eager to mash DP unless they have meter to make it safe.

[JusticeSoulTuna]

I know that’s true, and obviously the chances that this will happen without fail are slim, but that’s the point really, Pandora’s a risky choice for situations that don’t always happen. I just figured this would be a way of opening up possibilities, cause is doesn’t have to be specifically DPs. Busting my chops or not ya have to admit it’s better than nothing, haha. Gotta at least help people realize what you can do as opposed to still assuming Pandora is useless

[DocDignity]

What I meant is: Every whiffed/ most blocked moves could be punished by my partner sacrificing, nasty Pandora Gief coming in and Super the opponent. Midscreen it doesn’t work tho, because I’m too far away.

[Vulcan_Hades]

Oh wow, sorry I thought you were saying sacrificing Gief to get Dudley a punish. But yeah I didn’t think about that 0 frame Super. That sounds pretty good.

btw anyone know the exact frame data and properties of Pandora? I think it’s like 6-8 recovery or something close to that. Not sure where I read that but I know it was initially supposed to be 0 frames like Rose’s Ultra 2. Imagine 0 frame Pandora + 0-2 frame Super lol. You would basically be able to whiff punish anything at all for like a ton of damage.

[roknin]

magine 0 frame Pandora + 0-2 frame Super lol. You would basically be able to whiff punish anything at all for like a ton of damage.

That would be so sick.

…maybe a little too sick lol.

[DocDignity]

That would be so sick.

…maybe a little too sick lol.

I could live with…if I’m the one doing it

[Empryrean]

Guys is there any sort of Pandora setup I can do with my main team Nina x Julia? I’ve tried ex splitter into pandora and Julia is too far away to do anything, I’ve tried counter hit Ivory Cutter, Julia is too far away to do anything, I’ve tried Julia’s crumple but Nina is too far away to do anything

[DocDignity]

Sounds like she is too far away… Always

What about Nina’s crumple - Pandora - Julia LP Dash - Super?
But again, if you have your back to the corner, it’s better. Then a few things should work, especially with Julia’s fast super.
I really have to play around online with that Pandora into Gief Super. I had the feeling it’s faster than 8f. But saying that it’s probably sometimes just my opponent being surprised and just not reacting…