Yeah just go ahead and throw Painwheel on the team. It’s early now so people like RyRy and JetM are winning tournaments with Valentine or Painwheel + Parasoul assist. Ryry just won the recent local tournament in my area with Pain/Soul and Soul pretty much was there for the assist. He’ll get his point Parasoul up eventually but since you don’t need lockdown assists to pressure as much as in MVC3, a solid Painwheel plus invincible projectile assist will take you miles on its own IMO.
thanks.
my throw combo starter is xx fly f+j.lp to restand em. You gotta change the timing a bit depending on the character but it’s really really easy and consistent for me.
(air)throw xx fly f+lp > st.lp > cr.mk > st.hp xx fly f+j.mk > cr.lk > cr.mk > st.hp xx fly f+j.lk > cr.mp > f+hk hk hk hk xx fly f+j.hk > st.mp > j.mp > j.hp (3 hits) > j.hk > cr.lp > cr.mp > st.hp xx qcf+lp > dash up st.lk > cr.mp > st.hp xx d,d+k xx qcf+pp
it does about 7.3K.
btw i was toying around with napalm shot assist online (before calling it quits because this netcode just doesnt seem to work for me, makes me sad) and it seems really sick for resets if you time it so the explosion will hit JUST after you go for your reset so it will cover you. even if they avoid the reset and added blockstun allows you to mix em up one more time.
How broken are double’s and parasoul’s assists really? I haven’t run into any of it online yet, but filia’s updo I have and it’s a hell of an assist that has given a lot of newbs free hits. Unlike Double-Butt it is suuuuuper easy to hit confirm off of, buttslam u can only really follow up w/ some supers or if its in the corner, but filia updo is shoryuken like and gives u a free otg. I would say it’s better and a great addition to any character PW included… It even tracks u to some point, like I fly over them w/ pain wheel but filia turns around and hits u automatically. You just have to take it. As long as you can cover the recovery you’re good to go.
It won’t help against keepaway but peacock is the only one that really gives me any trouble and that’s only because item drop tracks and pwns flight. That move needs to be nerfed a little bit I think, the HP one tracks too heavily.
peacock would be ass though if they took hp item drop away from her… though i agree it is ridiculous (thats why i use the ho) and yes hp item drop pwns the shit out of flight. are you sure that filias up do gives free otg’s? if so thats haggar like… doesnt really seem as if it would, ie its probably a techable knockdown just like parasouls non chained jumping hp (she can combo off of it but only if the opponent doesnt tech)
-dime
Keepaway never really lasts forever in these types of games so eventually as people learn to get through the maze and get in they’ll punish Peacock. If you hit Peacock the item drop stops so you just have to play to get in and turn it off basically. I’m sure if they went and toned down shit everyone would just complain how bad Peacock is then.
well ATM peacock and filia can be played quite mindlessly (and I do mean mindlessly, you can literally do (racecar, garbage day, airplane)xinfinity and drop items on reaction. Spam projectiles of choice w/ peacock, if they take to the skies item drop. If they get through the BS somehow, call filia (and if you want, teleport). Worst case, she gets blocked or misses completely, but you can do super to cover her ass. You can do super even if it hits for some damage.I’m not really sure how to beat this technique. Only time is if I can get a lucky hit on peacock, like if I do the newb tactic of charging a J.HP and absorbing an airplane or item, usually I can mix her up for the knockout, then at least its just filia 1v1.But I really have to work my ass of for that one hit because a charged J.HP is so easy to telegraph, you just call filia and she updo’s you out of there.
I see some people say double’s assist is the answer, bah I don’t really feel like learning someone I don’t like just for the sake of an assist.
Is there any assist out there to neutralize Peacock’s item drop? This is definitely the bane of Painwheel’s existence. It feels like Doom hidden missiles at times. Like many of you, I’ve been using Parasoul in the duo. Though I’m honestly thinking of dropping Parasoul because her Tear explosions are getting fixed (nerfed). Parasoul was great all around, but if she has an overall damage nerf, then I don’t see her looking so great as an anchor.
I was thinking of Filia updo, but after playing Painwheel it feels like no one hits as hard and easy.
As for throw combo (back or forward):
:qcb:+:mk:, :uf:+:mk:, (land), cr.:mk:, st.:hp: xx :qcb:+:mk:, :df:+:lk:, (land), st.:lk:, cr.:mk:, st.:hp: xx :qcb:+mk:, :df:+:lp:, (land), st.:lp:, st.:lk:, cr.:mk:, st.:hp: xx :qcf:+:lp:, :f:+:hk::hk::hk::hk: xx :d::d:+:hk: xx :qcf:+:p::p:
Note, for some reason, it’s more consistent with :mk: flight. Especially consistent when double tapped.
Where you used c.LK, I do a raw c.MP (though I do a j.LK before it not j.LP because it has more hitstun) which is really, really easy. I do that c.LK before my launcher.
EDIT: Actually our combos are exactly the same, just I do the DF+jLP > land c.LP c.MP s.HP after the launcher section.
Basically I do 2 x ground series, air series, 2 x ground series. Pretty much exactly the same throw or not because I wont have used a c.LK to start if I do a throw obviously.
I think it’s about time for a pain wheel matchup thread. Maybe it’s just me but I was having some real problems using her today and it all seemed matchup specific… Anywho here’s my problems:
Filia… What a cunt. Couldn’t really figure out a way to stop her instant air dash j.hp pressure… It seemed really free. I did find some direct counters… But they required very narrow/ specific guesses on range and height. J.mp, j.mk and jumping were getting blown up easily. J.hp worked a bit but needed to be charged to really work and if I guessed wrong or ranged it wrong, I was getting hit by full combo. Also on block, and at sections where both characters would land and be at that range where both characters want to do there jabs first… Filia won like 95% of those encounters… Her jab is FAST. And pinwheels seems quite slow. So basically I was getting out prioritized air to air, and ground to ground. It was frustrating cause it was so obvious but I didn’t know how to stop it. Does pw have an AA?
So yeah that matchup seems kinda bad for first day impressions from me. Felt like playing against wolvie or zero where all your shit just gets beat.
Also, j.mp and j.hk in air to ground situations seem unsafe on block as the filia user was getting free throws or jabs on block… This can be circumvented by doing the moves at a lower height… But it seems kinda bad to use those moves. Overall pinwheel was feeling like mvc3 ironman where I have to make very narrow/good guesses on my opponents position in order to be effective… Not really liking that.
Also, flight wasn’t helping me as I couldn’t even generally fly, I guess I was trying to fly at the wrong times… But I kept getting stuffed in startup.
the Filia got bored so i played a painwheel mirror… God that mirror is annoying, I think mirrors in this game are generally annoying though. The problem? Both painwheels fly and try to reach a height above one another… We were practically flying to the top of the screen trying to get above each other cause neither wanted to whiff an air normal and give height priority to the other… It was some really dumb looking shit… We had a laugh. However since he was solo pain and I was triple team, I found out that I could bait him hard by flight canceling and then calling napalm pillar assist. He’d see me flight cancel with j.mk, then try to attack cause i was lower, only to get hit by pillar. Pillar ended up winning me most of the matches. It was to the point that I realized that I didn’t really need height priority at all cause he had to respect pillar, and that’s basically when I took over. Still, with no assists… That matchup seems super retarded and I can only imagine that two pains using pillar would be just about as dumb.
-dime
I’ve played a lot against Fillia and I find the most useful tools against her are hatred guard s.MP and jump back j.MP. I don’t use j.HK as much against her because it gets straight up beaten by IAD j.HP.
I’m not really sure what you mean by unsafe, you can just flight cancel them and unless you are doing them early, they should actually give you advantage on landing shouldn’t they?
Fillia is definitely a pain, she is especially good at denying Painwheel from flying around and when grounded, her mixup is difficult to block.
You have to chicken block (up+back instead of down+back) against filia. Puts and end to a lot of her air-dash cancel shenanigans. Also J.HK does blow up filia if you have a height advantage jump back or up j.mk flight cancel is your frd in this matchup. Not saying it’s an ez match but I don’t think it’s pain’s worst.
Yeah I figured out what my problem was with the s.MP whiffing. I wasn’t holding forward during the flight and the s.MP has a small hit box. If I don’t move forward first the launcher will whiff basically.
Played around 60+ games online yesterday and this morning, all with people with green connections.
I used Painwheel (cr.mp)/Valentine (Dead Cross H) and switching with Ms.Fortune (Fiber Uppercut) and Parasoul (Napalm Pillar).
Results:
Spoiler
- First Match: Me vs Parasoul [6-1] - Second Match: Me vs Fillia/Parasoul (Napalm Shot) and Solo Parasoul [12-1] -Third Match: Me vs Painwheel/Peacock/Fillia [2-0] - Foruth Match: Me vs Ms.Fortune/Double, Fillia, or Parasoul [20+ - 1] - Fifth Match: Me vs Valentine [3-0] - Sixth Match: Me vs Valentine [2-0] - Seventh Match: Me vs Valentine/Fillia (Updo and Ball) [7-1]
Some I don’t remember that well.
Some things I wanted to say about this team:
- When I won, it was either because Painwheel completely destroyed the other team, or Valentine cleaned up later with Parasoul backing her up.
- When I used Fortune on point, most of the time she got bodied. Painwheel/Valentine managed to get the wins either ways seeing how strong of a duo it is.
- For all my fellow Painwheel/Valentine users out there, I think Valentine’s best assist is his simple fireball assist. Why? Because no cr.mp assist, nor s.mk assist, command grab assist, or vial assist is going to help me do whay I like doing with Painwheel best, and is showing how I can control the air as much as I want to and you (the opponent) has to do something about it.
The assist packs really surprisingly good hitstun which allowed me to land a j.mk from flight into a combo a lot of time later than I expected. While I was in flight, the assist let me do a lot of side-to-side mixups by just flying to the other side and then confirming after (Sentinel+Rocks/Gene Splice/Repulsor). The Dead Cross assist also helped me stay rushing down. Everytime they would pushblock one of my ground strings, I would just call Valentine to immediately lock them down again so I can fly over there for some more pressure. Also, charged j.hp int the air plus the fireball covering you is pretty good.
But I think the reason I like that assist the most is because my opponent can’t “plan” properly. He’s Parasoul, he notices that j.hp is really good to get me out of the air. He’s Valentine, notices cr.hp can be used as a good anti-air. While I space myself with Painwheel’s flight, I just call Valentine’s assist and it keeps them in check at any distance from doing anything. So if the fireball is covering me, they can’t do many things to counter me. It’s probably just my style, but I would much rather have an all-purpose simple 1-hitting fireball asisst than a normal that only use is to lockdown when I am in.
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Painwheel and Valentine (pretty much anything) with Napalm Pillar or Updo is crazy. Nothing else to say there.
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Valentine can mixup really good with Pain’s cr.mp covering her. Command grab, throw, and cross up j.:hp mixups are really easy with the assist covering you.
you are quite lucky to have so many opponents with green connections 
i agree with everything you say here. i’d say that pains best assists are pillar and updo. actually after last night filia has gone quite far up in my book… she has 2 amazing assists in updo or hk hairball. plus she can spend mucho meter for big combos… seems like the quintessential anchor style character to me. yesterday i was usng pillar instead of updo… but if i can make updo work like pillar then i wont be using parasoul as i feel filia just suits the team better (great dhc as well that can be extended into further combos)
after playing yesterday it seems that painwheel really needs an invincible AA assist to initiate flight and as a gtfo since pains gtfo options are pretty weak. i like your val projectile strat though… i know i could use it because, yesterday i was getting people to try and bait my pillar (which allows me to get into flight for free) but when i NOW they are baiting pillar/updo i could instead just use a projectile assist for the neutral mixup and blocking advantage.
so yeah, new team for me:
val (hp projectile),painwheel (cr.mp), filia (updo)
that team is just like the team i first wanted to use only no parasol and ive moved val to first cause i feel she has easier times dealing with zoning with her airdashes and double jumps and air projectiles… team seems overall smarter, with the one caveat that painwheels dhc wont work for val when far away. still though i think val has everything i want, it seemed it yesterday since have no t-mode time in woth her yet she was doing roughly as well as my pain when she was on point.
-dime
I originally posted this on Dustloop.com but here you go:
On another note…Painwheel’s vortex is absolutely rediculous. I am running Painwheel (2mp assist) and Valentine (normal throw assist). This is beyond the cheap stuff.
Here are some reset examples:
- Mid combo s.hk(x2) > fly > a) air grab or b) j.mk or c) air grab whiff > c.lk or d) crossup j.hk
- Mid combo j.mp > j.hp(x2) > fly > df+air grab (grabs right before they hit the floor coming out of hitstun. Doesn’t work on heavy chars [Double, Cerebella, Parasoul] )
- Mid combo s.hp > fly > a) crossup j.hk or b) air grab whiff > c.lk or c) df+air grab whiff > ground grab
*Here’s where it gets interesting (cheap) - Mid combo s.hp > assist buffer fly cancel (QCB lk + mp) >
(a) air grab
(b) jump in
© crossup
(d) air grab whiff > c.lk
*Notes:
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If you cancel out of the s.hp immediately Valentine throw assist will whiff due to the char still being in blockstun, and their tech attempt will get blown up. If they don’t attempt to tech you get free 4-way mix-up. If they try to jump out air grab option will blow them up.
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Delay the assist buffer fly cancel slightly and they will get thrown coming out of blockstun by Valentine. If you do air grab option you will air grab their jump out attempt. If they tech you get free mix-up on them coming out of throw tech animation.
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These setups also work off of blocked attacks to create some nasty tick throw setups. If they pushblock you can delay the fly cancel to screw with their timing. It’s also pretty cheap on incoming chars off a snap-back or after you kill a char.
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Valentine’s ground throw puts them in a crumple state, letting you charge a full c.hp for the combo starter, adding a free extra 100 dmg. The combo I use after the throw is an optimized variation of Pfhor’s full screen combo :
full charge c.hp > fly > j.mk > c.mk > c.hp > fly > j.lk > j.mk > c.lk > c.mk > c.hp > fly > j.lp > j.mk > c.lp > c.mk > c.hp > fly > j.hk > s.mp > j.hp(x3) > j.hk > s.lp > c.mp > s.hk > j.mp > j.hp(x3) > j.hk [j.mp(x3) > j.hk for Double] > s.lk > c.mp > s.hp > QCF+lp > f.hk(x4) > QCF+hk > otg s.mk(x3) > s.hp > d,d k > Death Crawl.
- 9876 dmg, but if you reset into this late in a previous combo…they’re probably dead already…
http://www.dustloop.com/forums/images/smilies/slant.gif
- My favorite blow up is to combo s.hp > fly > j.lk > assist buffer fly cancel (QCB lk+mp). Make the j.lk trigger IPS then:
(a) re-fly up-back to bait burst and make it whiff > burst can be punished since it did not make any contact.
(b) they don’t burst and get reset by Valentine assist.
What are peoples’ experiences with anchor Painwheel? I’m looking into Parasoul/Painwheel as a secondary team, thinking perhaps ‘take the shot’ into hatred install would have some uses. I’m undecided about painwheel’s assist so far, but I’d be concentrating mainly on zoning with parasoul.
I would really run that team the other way, Painwheel’s assists won’t be all that amazing for zoning, you cold try a Gae Bolga Stinger I guess, but it won’t give you much you don’t have already. Also Parasoul is much better at spending any left over meter and also fares well on her own, Painwheel is ok on her own as well, but Napalm Pillar adds SOOO much to her game that it pretty much warrants swapping them alone.
EDIT:
Steals throw assist rest
That sounds so dirty, I have to incorporate this! I actually like to use s.HP in my combos more than c.HP just because of the ridiculous reset potential, scariness during any air combo or s.HK as well. This character is seriously crazy.
Anchor PW: Probably amazing if you are beastly with armor and never drop combos. She has the tools to hit and run but once they’re in you gotta be really smart and really good. Then again, same could be said for all solos. It is a little different since she has no reversal, but i think as people start learning how blockstrings work across the board it will be easier to find gaps to armor jab through. (Aside: armor jab is awesome)
PW c.mp as assist: The more i play with it the more I like it, because even though it looks low it hits mid, which doesn’t trigger unblockable protection. Probably late to the party but getting a couple chances for a free high/low is always nice.
speaking of armor… any painwheels putting it into there game play with decent results? i havent been able to… the primary problem that i see is that if you look at most armor moves from other games… they have armor that startsup very quickly, and the armored normals or specials have amazing hitboxes and the armor lasts until active… painwheels armor moves have none of these save for maybe fast activation on her st.lp armor.
so any good uses?
-dime
I have some success with armor on LP attacks vs. other characters’ quick light attacks.
st.HP is good vs cerebella if you think she will try to titan knuckle you at the start of the round