Painwheel matchup discussion

INCOMING MIXUPS:

Ok so these 2 mixups I list are theory only as I haven’t had a chance to use them yet, however there is one point to know which is incoming characters, at least off of snap in ARE INSTANTLY THROWABLE. which is what allows this theoretical mixup to take place.

Corner only, snap in character… Wait, neutral jump throw. Ok so that’s easy enough, the cool thing here is that the jump throw comes out VERY quick. So once they’ve been hit with this a few times they will need to mash out an invincible air move or mash throw tech. Now that opens up 2 more mixups:

Snap in, wait, jump back mp… If I’m correct this will hit there throw tech and allow a combo via flight cancel j.mk.
Also, instead doing the " frame trap" j.mp pain can just sit there and dash forward at the last second and hit them from behind… This should be more than just a 50/50 left right as the whole point is to try and catch your opponents air throw tech, yet also have a crossup if they guessed wrong and thought that the frame trap j.mp was coming.

That’s it, still theory fighter, but I think that against a cornered snapped opponent, the jump throw has the potential to really make everything just work… Like how grief gets free combos in sf4 against people that jump, in this we may get free combos against people that come in mashing moves or throw tech.

Hopefully if these don’t work as planned we can collectively come up with some different stuff, that will… All I know is that a coming in opponent in training mode is immediately air throwable and and painwheels corner throw combos and subsequent resets hurt.

The only thing that makes this not so great is that unlike mvc3, the screen scrolls away from the character that just performed the snap out which means that the character will come in from a full screen away. Ive got ways to make them fall into a blocked hornet bomber but i can see that being easily able to be gotten out of cause its the last hit and therefor low to the ground meaning that they have ample time to double jump or air dash to escape.

-dime

WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING AAINST CEREBELLA? my god ive never been so annoyed. shes like wolverine and gief all over again. AMAZING normals, a fucking airdash a double jump for avoiding everything known to man, a run that she can cancel into an arnored move or… some weirdo command grab that grabs AIR AND GROUND (or maybe its different versions that look the same) idk but im at a loss kinda like filia… i just seem to be completely outprioritized on both the ground and in the air… then after all that i have to deal with hornet bomber as well. fucked up thing is that when i manage to make it wiff and finally have that juicy position that painwheel loves (her in flight mode, above her opponents head who is on the ground) but then i try and attack after bomber wiffs and i get a face full of armored running ram move. so have to comletely bait her 2-3 times in a row just to try and get a blocked jumpin going, only to get my attack strings/dropped cmbos mashed out of…

then to top it all off the GAYEST mixup i think ive ever witnessed: cr.lk,cr.mp,cr.hp (launcher, blocked) mixed up with her AA command grab special thats supposedly blockable but isnt if she times it right, or if i stay on the ground i might get command grabbed into like 3/4 damage for some stupid shit that literally like maybe 5 button presses…(ratio 2 bella) it just straight up pisses me off that a grappler has BETTER overall mobility than some of the non grappler characters yet does gay ass grappler damage… sigh… im quite salty right now.

any “general” strategies that i should use to take on bela backed by bomber? im out of ideas.

-dime

In flight mode, if you hold up (And only up, neither uf or ub will work) and Cere jumps to smack you, you will actually fly further up and in a lot of cases, avoid being hit pretty cleanly. I don’t know how savvy your Cere player is, but I could literally hover right above this one just switching sides to create difficult to follow crossup j.hk combos. Also, j.mp! Don’t rely on it if Cere’s already sticking a normal out, but it’s great to lay on the aggression with and you can flight cancel out of it.

Ram run is punishable with Beur Reaper (qcf + k). The mk version if they are diagonally in front of PW, and hk if they’re directly below. It does’t give a shit about your armor, and similar to PW’s flight vulnerability, if she’s running, she’s /not/ blocking.

Be sure to test their tick throw setups. I’ve played Cere’s who clearly weren’t considering her anti-air throw as anything but combo extender material. Up+back xx flight cancel off a really obvious grab super setup and enjoy the refreshing taste of full punish. If they /are/ using the anti-air throw on you, consider push blocking the last hit of their blockstring? Pushblock + Upback may give you enough space to cover all the throw options Cere has, but I haven’t tested it (Like I said, a lot of Cere’s I play aren’t very clever with the AA grab)

GREAT STUFF MAN!!! this is exactly what i was looking for… next time me and the bella player play, iwill have AMMO!!

thanks alot, i wish i could like your post more than once.

-dime

Hopefully that helps! Let me know how that goes.

Cool thing. vs Valentine if she tries to alpha blade/random EKG you out of flight a good tactic is to charge j.hp, fly, unfly downward,definitely not easy to punish but if you are far enough away you can react to the superflash with it.

^ You can go through Parasoul’s Sniper Shot the same way.

Also, PW’s air super beats fillia’s DP super, which is something i with i knew sooner.

HK buer reaper is a great answer to characters that air dash to get in. Being able to threaten with it makes people have to really change up their approach.

my super top secret strategy (shhh dont tell anybody) LOL… is to not use flight much at all versus characters that have air priority versus painwheel and TO USE EMPTY FORWARD JUMP + (invulnerable) ASSIST
ive gone from losing sets really badly to winning them badly from only those 2 changes. the thing is that if a filia is constantly predictably using airdash H… its hard for painwheel to deal with because filias move is faster and has more speed… PW can armor through… but thats a crapshoot and doesnt really do much even when the armor works. so i just started empty jumping towards the ho with lk bomber backing me up… and it totally blows up that stupid spam and gives PW a free combo to boot… not only that but if pw guesses wrong yet they block on the ground… PW gets a free low/throw mixup… its pretty damn good.

when i use the empty jump strat smartly it opens up painwheels dash in game as well as alternate timing of assist calls game… basically it makes an attacker slow there roll and it kills people trying to just snipe PW out of the air via ground to air AA’s… (there ground to air AA gets blocked by pw then they get hit by the invulnerable assist into otg combo into reset into ownage)

also i totally use lk bomber… i really cant state how much better it is for PW in any matchup not concerning a keepaway peacock or parasoul. it isnt duckable so its much more free pressure, and it doesnt knock so far away so painwheel can much more easily convert its otg.

i personally advocate any pw using bomber assist to switch to lk version outside of the matchups that i listed.

-dime

I totally agree. Flight as an approach is designed to not be great. The only approach I’ve found to work well is j.hp charge, call pillar (lk bomber would be boss here too), and make them block something. It’s a bit random to really be called a setup, but it works just by being oppressive.

i think ill use that… are you using instant jump hp?

-dime

Depends on the assist and what gets covered, I’d guess. With pillar I can be fine doing it at any height, just as well jump back armor+assist is great as well.

I don’t know if I’m still supposed post here, but I’m having hella trouble with peacock while you guys tell me she’s nothing. Please tell me how to make her nothing.

I don’t know if anyone on this thread has ever been quoted as saying Peacock is nothing, as a lot will agree she’s a tough matchup, especially with a good backup assist. Earlier on, Cougar gave some solid advice on getting in on Disney Channel’s Cable show.

I’ll have to try that. Thank you.