Painwheel matchup discussion

I just want to throw out there that I hate peacock+double or peacock+invincible assist (filia, para). It’s the most brainless technique. Item drop HP, hold UP+BACK, call assist if they get close. Do the worlds easiest hit confirm into super if anything hits.

Learn to play the game instead of using these gayass tactics please!

You mad? Seriously I hate people when people says shit like this, learn to beat it instead of crying like a child about it. Double assist you can just jump over, you don’t HAVE to fly every second of a match because Painwheel has a fly mechanic.

If you’re playing solo Painwheel you can’t blame anyone but yourself, pick up an assists that helps you out versus zoning.

Doublecock may not seem too difficult for you guys, but coming from a solo Painwheel, it’s pretty ridiculous. I’ve played a few really good ones, and I think it’s best described as I put it to a friend of mine yesterday, a “stupidly broken Mario platformer.” She just has so many different tools that all I can do is respect everything, wait until I get an opening, and dash-jump at her. Flight gets me hit instantly with an Item Drop, Dashing gets beat by Garbage Day and Butt, normal jumping gets beat by Butt, flying George, and Item Drop, etc. It really never ends.

The only thing I find I can do is play patient, and when an opportunity comes, superjump forward and fly right above her in what I call the deadzone, the area where Butt can’t hit you out of the sky because you’re too close. From there you can have your way, even if she Item Drops you. That being said, getting there is an entirely different story; the fact that any random contact can be canceled into super makes life even harder for you to get close. It’s definitely a 9-1 matchup in Doublecock’s favor when Painwheel is assistless. Also, it’s worth noting that Painwheel’s ground super (Death Crawl?) beats the beam portion of Peacock’s (Argus Agony?) when used close enough.

Also, to clear up exactly why I use solo Painwheel, it’s because with a single combo and reset I can kill any character, even if it starts from an air-to-air, air throw, or anything else. That and I don’t care for Parasoul, Double, or solo Filia.

IMO the best place to fly against peacock (while mid screen, obviously against PC with assists you can’t fly in her face all day) is right above where the gunshots come from, because you can safely land quickly when you need to, fwd unfly can avoid level 1 items, and with good spacing you can get around air show. Just as well, when you corner her you should keep a distance so that you can both bully with air normals and punish teleports.

Also, it’s a little disingenuous to say normal jumping gets beat by anything, since you can block…

Good point, I meant to say jumping and attacking when you get close. My bad :rofl:

Lol it’s OK if you can’t learn a decent combo to fall back on this shit.

Yes, I too play solo painwheel for the same reasons as mentioned by cougar. It is definitely frustrating, to see this easy mode kind of play. At least go for some teleport mixups or day 1 air combos. Nope, just item drop and buttslam. Cougar, even what you said I would be happy with, but garbage day is really not needed unless you don’t have a super to hit confirm the assist with (it’s oK you can just press the motion for super anyways, you don’t have to deviate from the tactic, if you have one it comes out, if not garbage day comes out. Can’t be bothered w/ things like thinking, or meter management after all)
If you ever get into the unfortunate situation of being low health or low timer left over, then HP item drop + hold and run is almost unstoppable. Seriously, down back HP(hold), hold up+back, call assist if opponent gets close. Repeat and win with the utmost of skills.

I guess I will have to adopt a second to combat this nonsense.

Solo Painwheel player here. I have a friend who plays Doublecock, and I play him pretty often. The match-up isn’t too bad if you’re patient. What I’ve always done is play is similar to a Dhalsim match in SF4, just walk/fly them all the way to the corner. Stay in that space about a third of the screen away from them, where they’re too far to hit you with the Double assist and where you can avoid the item drop without much trouble. If you take some chip or a random super, don’t get frustrated, you have enough health to eat some damage. Your goal is to get them to the corner, where their options start to run out. Then it’s just a matter of guessing when they’ll try to teleport out and punishing them for it as hard as you can. At the very least, make sure you can get back the other side to push them back into the corner. It’s just about taking your time and not taking unnecessary risks.

Especially in anime/vs. style games lame out is always harder to implement than rushdown/mix up type play at the highest level of play because you can’t convert into full combos that will kill people off of projectiles. I always like seeing a good lameout character because too many fighters these days don’t truly have any strong lame out characters anymore that make you work to get in. Rush is fun but if all you have to do is move forward to get in the face of every character in the game you’re not really working that hard for your offense. A fighting game starts to get predictable when close ranged fighting or very short term zoning are the only viable strats.

Peacock is balanced pretty well considering her normals are slow and her options to get your off while viable…are limited compared to other characters without an assist (and you can always just bait the assist). Morrigan + Missiles is completely worse because you have to deal with projectiles that hit you in your back as you’re moving forward. Which means you have to deal with fireballs as if there’s another Morrigan on the screen shooting you in your back also. Think if Peacock could turn on a super where another Peacock is always shooting you with the exact same move behind you.

Hidden Missiles is much more powerful than HP item drop also. Not to mention even if you do get in she has one of the most invincible supers in the game and some of the best normals in the game.

They might need to put in a tutorial to help people deal with Peacock + Double but the strength/OPness of it is very much overrated. Everyone thought Cable + Doom was stupid in Marvel 2 back in 2001 also. Now nobody does that shit.

+1 for peacock being pretty well balanced. its the hornet bomber that screws shit up… and even then, since double cock is so easy to use… i used it and got taught first hand how good it ISNT. im NOT saying that it isnt the best strat in this game yet. but i feel its far from overpowered. using it, my opponents found myriads of ways around it. i dont even use doublecock anymore cause i was mostly just using for cheese factor/trying to figure out how good it is.

i got my answer.

i suggest to those posters that think its unbeatable to USE IT. it doesnt take much execution nor muscle memory.

one of the ways i leveled up in rts games was i would watch the best players play and the steal their builds. of course i wouldnt win every match so when i got beaten REALLY bad by some particular strats that i couldnt overcome and thought were cheap, i would just DL the replay memorize there build order and USE IT.

funny how quickly i found counters by using this strategy and then implementing them into my own game. if you use doublecock you will also get taught just how good it isnt.

granted i wasnt using it at its highest level but i think i was good enough to put its basic concepts together and run. from there i just looked at how people were beating me/getting in and what options i had to get them off of me. this means that i learned how to deal with the team on a fundamental level without even playing against them. and when i did play against one i already knew what to do and what peacock had problems with so playing the team was time while spent.

-dime

Yeah I was going to post the set Ryry had vs. Keninblack at Civil War to show some things that can be done but the video was cut off.

Long story short the best thing to do is to utilize regular and super jumps to get around so you can get in while blocking. Only fly if it’s absolutely necessary. Block the HP item drops and watch for teleports as you push her towards the corner to punish. The only thing really OP about hornet bomber assist is the invincibility and that’s getting patched out eventually. Luckily if you’re playing Painwheel you’re already using the best character in the game for dealing with that assist. It only gets considerably worse when using other characters against that assist.

mike posted a bunch of counters for booty assist a couple of which i didnt know… i’ll copy/paste them here with his troll comments edited out:

the bolded seems as if it is a most workable solution as it allows you to advance against hornet bomber and not lose position.

-dime

The thing about peacock is that you should be able to fly around like an idiot until she has a level 2 item ready. Flying forward will always avoid a level 1. For me this is why Peacock with an AA assist is much harder to deal with, because at least against double i can fly right above her, but with something like fillia i have to respect that space and by the time i can get around it level 2 is ready.

I keep hearing you can fly over it, but from what I have seen, if you are anywhere near Peacock and she is on the ground, Hornet Bomber HK will still hit you at the top of the screen while flying. How do you actually fly over it? I know superjumping works, but that doesn’t help when you are already flying.

Fly to the top of the screen then move forward. Her forward flight makes her vulnerable hit box small enough where the butt can’t touch you.

You’re still better off super jumping when farther away since you can block the item drop stuff as you’re going in.

Wow, those toes moving up make all the difference do they? Haha I guess that makes sense then. I’ve been getting caught out trying to hug the top of the screen against that assist too many times!

Only the 2nd hit of the butt can hit you out if the top of the screen as well.

Just as well. As soon as the invincibility is over it’s really easy to hit double out of it

Was definitely hitting me earlier, I guess I need to attack her with good spacing to stop it. Opens me up for the point character though =S

an interesting solo painwheel (is this any of you guys?)

his style was interesting as it wasnt to flight based like mine, its much more based on jumping medium punch and he shows that there is a good reason for that as he has a confirmable air to air combo using it. he basically tries to surprise with flight. his throw setups and resets arent there… but give a guy a break, game hasnt been out that long and this is online.

anywho i found alot of stuff in there that i can steal, maybe you guys will to:

[media=youtube]DZBwF6x98GQ[/media]

-dime

lol nobody commentating… cmon guys play along!

anyways, it may be obvious to other people but i just saw something in that video versus filia:

at about 44 seconds painwheel gets air to aired with filias iad j.hp… but the cool thing is that painwheel recovered in midair after the hit and went into flight before touching the ground… i know it may be obvious to long time versus games users… but taking the hit and still being able to fly is an interesting counter to me… i think this may single handedly make the painwheel versus filia matchup easier. as it will mean that its harder for filia to keep me personally, from flying around.

also, something that i took away from that video (or it may have been some other vid) is using charged hp for armor versus air to air moves, then letting it go and canceling it into flight… basically it means that painwheel will be ABLE TO ADVANCE SAFELY IN THE AIR damn near no matter what… basically charged j.hp can be considered an airdash with armor properties especially when its canceled into j.hk

anywho these are somethings to look into as it gives us a way to proactively get through AA assists like updo and pillar… and it also MAY end up being so good that painwheel might realistically be able to be used without a gtfo assist to clear the skies for her to get into flight. imagine a painwheel wth cerecopter assist that is using armored flight moves to dash towards the opponent, or a painwheel that uses her armor to “parry” AA updo into flight into a happy birthday.

anywho charged j.hp seems like it could be really good and deserves some serious looking into.

-dime

I don’t play enough to chime in lol. Haven’t had much time to really get some time in. Needs to change soon before UFGT…

Had a lot of problems vs. double and fortune last time I played. Fortune for obvious reasons, really mobile, detached head, fiber upper leading in to full combo. Double is just a mindfuck to me right now, and I know it will be easier as I learn but right now I just lock up against her. She has lots of ways to stay out of danger and can convert off random stuff pretty easy. I think she’ll be a little easier to handle as I become more patient.