that sagat is just a weak sagat…instead of throwing tiger shots if you mix in tiger knees the hooligan threat is gone.Cammy has no way to really deal with Knees safely. Sagat vs cammy is very 6-4 SAGAT
yea with chun that combo turns into a situational thing :shake:
If I beat anyone and they fall for a lot of hooligan traps I just write the match off like it doesn’t count lol. I beat a Honda using a lot of hooligans the other day and after the fight told him how to avoid hooligan set-ups so I wouldn’t be able to do it again. Same thing with dive kick mix-ups, I tell them how to avoid those so it will be more difficult for me the next time.
stein i think if your gettin any sagat to say that your doin it right lol. I wasn’t able to watch your vids, I just have a bad cpu, and if it isnt on youtube, more than likely i can’t watch it… I don’t agree with gootecks though, I would say this is a 6-4 match in sagat’s favor. I’ve never had alot of trouble in the past 6 months gettin around sagats fireball game, its more so come down to the middle ground. I still feel they kinda hold the adv. there, primarily because of tiger knee. That and just the fact that we dive kick, and his DP FADC HK to ultra is on par with giefs ultra when we get caught, I just dont see it even.
I’ve never messed around with the hooligan tech traps, I feel i need to give them more work, its just hard for me because whenever i try them against checkmate he DP’s. I think if he’s on the ground and a bit aways from me, he just sits on it lol. That and I tried to do it to twan in the last tourney and I ate a Ultra from E honda. So i think I just have a bad track record with trying them which had lead me to not using them as much. Either this, or I’m just not doing them right lol.
sagat can just does ton of damage in 1 stupid combo while u have to work loads to do the same at him. he can abuse so much stuff …
though im not really scared at all to play a sagat, i kinda found my way vs him with camp and block. often works
id rather face 1000 sagats than 1 rog or 1 guile
yah man its only because of PSN’s inherent Wifi connection…wifi is not good to play online Games on alot of packets get dropped
I’ve never even seen a 5 bar connection on PSN, ever, not even when I know the person I’m playing is like a mile away :lol:
yea…PSN sucks big time. not just in connections, but the input delay vs the 360 kills it for me. i have completely abandoned playing sf4 on the ps3 except at tourneys. i go into training mode for the input training and nothing more.
I agree it’s 6-4 Sagat. If they play it right 7-3. Recently, I’ve been using the hooligan tactics, but I’m talking about on reaction, not just randomly throw out hooligans. Using the MP trap, they seem to go for the HP uppercut first, so it’s very possible to get lucky the first time they try to DP the hooligan.
With Tiger Knee, you just have to figure out when they’re going to do it and Cannon Spike. If they start doing tiger knee from midrange (not going to hit you), that’s a free ultra. You do have to be kinda quick on that.
PSN is like beginners training ,XBL is like Advanced .
No hate its just a lot of weaker players playing with Bad connections
thats so iffy i wouldnt even go for it…thats why the match is probably 6-4 or 7-3 if the sagat knows his tiger knee game and zoneing is air tight…Your not getting in too often you really have to take advantage of the few times you do and mix him up completely and utterly or youll be done in no time.
No way in hell is Cammy Sagat advantage her or even. 6-4 is about right, 7-3 for a god tier sagat player (but that’s for the majority of the cast anyway). I don’t mind having to take risks for big damage, but even he dwarfs the damage output plus he’s got tiger shot and their insane recovery.I think it’s worse than Balrog for her 
At least he has to get close and has nothing better than CSpike (read: Kara Knee is crazy good).
I don’t know man, you kind of just… you can’t be afraid of Sagat.
His Kara-specials are all ridiculous. I couldn’t believe the distance he covered with a hk kara-knee the first time I tested it, who cares if hes the slowest walker in the game when he can practically teleport across the screen :lol:
Tiger knee is the difference maker in the match-up I think.
Well, out of everything you listed, Back Throw into Hooligan doesn’t work as a Hooligan Trap, but it does lead into your “Cammy Vortex” you posted up.
Most characters can always beat the Hooligan Traps just by timing a perfect wake-up Crouching Normal Move. It “squats” them instantly, so they can avoid it. UltraDavid, for example was messing with it and doing instant wake-up Low Roundhouse with Gief. If I try a Hooliganafter the Cannon Spike + Quick Recovery by Zangief, your Hooligan will GRAB Zangief’s Lariat. So he had to come up with something else, and he could do a “wake-up” Low Roundhouse to stuff the Hooligan Attempt.
Also, I do not find Sagat particularly difficult to fight. To me, that fight only comes down to damage. Yeah, the knee is annoying, but just play it patient and feel free to take a bunch of block damage from knees. That at least means he’s staying close to you, so when the time is right, you can really strike.
The MOST important lesson to learn against Sagat, and everyone who hates Sagat needs to learn this right away: PAY ATTENTION TO SAGAT’S METER. As soon as he has two bars for Super and, in most of the cases, an Ultra built up, you gotta play a a LOT safer all of a sudden. Use more calculated risks and really, really try to bait out that Uppercut into FADC so you Block it. Getting hit by it is just too painful.
My friends just found out mashing crouch normals beats the hooligan vortex I use. It’s alright, so San Diego knows how to beat it. Doesn’t mean I can’t use it at other tournaments. Hooligan is quickly becoming my favorite move Cammy has :D.
I can punish back dash, fireballs, reversals, etc. I have a great mixup opportunity that comes with it and you can do lp hooligan after the bnb combos for an extra 130ish damage. All of a sudden that 163 bnb combo is looking mighty fine with the added hooligan mixup.
I also found a new “reaction training” program. Allen gave me the idea for this, but I expanded! Here’s the basic plan: Go to training mode, set the computer to random block and random counter hit. Then do c jab -> c fierce. Try to get the fierce in as quick as you can after the jab. If the fierce connects but no counter hit, do MK -> arrow. If the fierce connects with counter hit, ultra. So far I’m getting to be around 80% accurate and I’m really noticing a difference in my fights. A few hours ago, I saw a viper on wakeup backdash. What did I use for punish? Ultra. Did it hit? Yes! :DDDDD
When I’m starting to feel comfortable with this, I think the next step is to combo the jab if it connects.
nice
Yeah, there’s a trick to use in these situations too. 
Anytime you go for a Medium Punch Hooligan, if your opponents are getting really good at Mashing Normals to stop it, you can also just do a regular Jump. Looks hella like a Hooligan Throw. Then just do Jump Roundhouse and eat their wake-up Normal Move.
Just make sure you do the Jump by doing the full Hooligan motion with out a button press if you are playing live. Then it looks more like you are going for it.
Yeah, dumb offline tactic, but you gotta learn these types of things.
Cammy Fatigue in full force now, coming to the conclusion that she really has nothing to pressure someone with an aa normal from crouch period, throwing doesn’t work, tkcs fails. Belive it or not you need either good normals or a semi safe special to create any kind of real pressure against someone that knows what they are doing. Cammy has 0 safe specials and her normals are trash, doesn’t help that her combos all require point blank range, with no reliable way to get in that close yeah that really doesn’t help…yes I am ranting but damn did Cammy have to suck so hard in this game?
i thought i was suffering from cammy fatigue too… but you know what… i met this jerk on player match… the maches were like this:
Guile: first thing first = jump back/walk away then TURTLE!.. sonic boom, sonic boom, sonic boom… if i jump = FLASHKICK or jump grab/HK (depends on his mood)…
Ken/Ryu: first thing first= jump back air tatus :wtf: then TURTLE! haduken, haduken, haduken… if i jump = SHORYUUUKEN… or jumping HK (mashed early on in the jump) or air tatsu to the other side and repeat… with the casual annoying c.mk
he was actually good with combos when i screw up and FADCs… but this was his tactics to BEAT rush down cammy…
i ended up winning 6 out of 10 (yes i went through 10 freaking matches playing the worst Guile/ken turtle i’ve seen)… it was so annoying… but im happy with the result… and not afraid to face those jerks anymore…
so i guess i missed this “cammy vortex” could you point me in the direction of it? i just realized there is a tourney on sunday (which i aparently need a team for -_-
so i want to bring something new to the table 