"Our spirits are better now." General Cammy Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
61

James, I totally feel your struggle and hardship with Cammy. I really suspect that Cammy is incomplete in SF4 and was released unfinished in order to get the game out on time. I just don’t see a logical reason as to why Capcom made all of her moves that were once safe so UNsafe. Why make her pokes so slow? Now don’t get me wrong, I love cammy and I’ve switched from Balrog to Cammy even though I’ve had success with Balrog. Balrog is just TOO easy and I don’t like feeling scrubby. Anyway back to Cammy. Here’s my analysis on Cammy.

Her pros:
-Great walkspeed (very useful for punishing whiffed attacks, walking under crossups, and walk-up throws)
-Good jump arc and good air to air.
-Good ultra (first few frames go thru fireballs, great chip damage, good damage but not great)
-Fast focus attack
-Good damage/stun bread and butters

Her cons:
-Slow, almost useless armor break move; Spin Knuckle
-unsafe cannon drill (only safe from MAX distance … I have to stress that again MAX!! like only the tips of her toes can barely graze the enemy, and even then I think Gief still gets a free jab SPD)
-dive kick can be blocked low (really capcom? sighs), can only be performed jumping forward, does not give significant advantage on block. DOES NOT BUILD ENOUGH METER. I really don’t wanna see another post about using TK dive kick to build meter… many times my EX bar is almost full and i do like 6 or 7 dive kicks and still no EX. like wtf?
-depends on EX too much (only ex cannon drill goes thru fireballs [regular drill should at least go under fireballs like in CVS2 once its out], EX hooligan is OK cuz it tracks but it still doesnt grab low or do more damage, EX cannon spike (does not have extra invincibility like EX shoryuken, only does 10 more points damage, is weaker than normal cannon spike if juggled cuz it doesnt get the “deep” hit property)
-pokes are slow :confused:

How Cammy should be improved:
-Increase speed of her spinning back fist so that it is MORE of a threat to fireballs and can be actually be used for one of the purposes it was intended for (breaking focus)I don’t mind that SBF is her armor break move because if it was cannon drill she would be broken and we don’t want that… (do we? lol)
-Make cannon drill safe again (give it more pushback, remove the little slide after the drill cuz thats what makes it SOOOO punishable in SF4 … OR… make the little slide part actually hit) Making cannon drill safe would give cammy a way to advance safely kinda like how Dictator can lk. scissor kick all day for free because it is 100% safe on block
-add dive kick to hooligan combination and allow hooligan throw to grab crouched opponents.
-allow normal dive kick to be performed from neutral jump.
-Speed up her necessary pokes like standing RH and crouching forward (so that she can actually walk up and poke with it like ken’s crouching forward)

I don’t even feel like I should be calling these improvements. Cammy is SUPPOSED to have these tools. They were just removed for no apparent reason.

We’re all experienced players here so it’s not really about bitching and crying. We obviously care to get better and don’t want to drop cammy otherwise we wouldn’t be posting about it. We have to find a way though to find out if MAYBE… just MAYBE they’ll make the necessary tweaks and balances to her. Who should we ask? Seth Killian? I’m sure he’s a busy guy and maybe he can’t say what updates are in the future but I don’t think it would hurt to ask. Well anyway that was my 2cents. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

p.s. if you want to play my cammy add me on PSN: jav1ts

62

db > cammy

but hey we need some good Cammys. Keep playing chen!

63

give cammy a FIREBALL …RAWR…

64

That’s crazy talk.

Give her a Spinning Pile Driver move for next patch. I’d love to see the face on Gief players when they get picked up and twirled around like a baton by a 125LBS girl.

:rofl:

65

There are any number of small improvements that could keep cammy in the mix with higher tier characters.

1: SBF = faster and quicker recovery
2: Hooligan always over fireballs or SA always under fireballs
3: Hooligan into CS would be amazing
4: Hooligan grabbing crouched
5: Wall Jump
6: CSpike more horizontal range

Any one of these would really boost her in the charts and probably help to keep people getting burnt out by losing shitty matches. The SBF not going through Akumas air fireball is just pure crap imo. SA is a better move for that, but it really should have invincible frames all over and not just from ground fireballs in that instance.

66

125 Lbs man where did u get that data ?XD

67

Alioune mind if I add you to play some matches and see how you use Cammy?

On a side note…is your main really your main when you play better with your alts?

68

What I found most effective (Not just with cammy, but it improved my game a lot with everyone) was attempting to mimic Poongku’s Ryu. He uses a very effect FA and SRK-FADC ground game that really makes him a beast. The best thing about it is that all it requires is a character with some forward range on their FA. The way he implements his FA and it’s parry-like ability is great for catching people who are trying to counter attack your block strings.

Example: [media=youtube]cH5FMcX8zNY&feature=related[/media]

With Ryu this type of attack is particularly effective, but I’ve also found good results with other characters. Especially characters with decent standing and crouching pokes. Cammy’s range on her FA makes it even better. The only difference I would suggest would maybe be using TK Cannon Strike to build meter for a cancelled spike before you start in on them.

69

I’m convinced I can get more BP with Ken, Sagat, or even Balrog without even attempting to learn their combos and mixups.

70

I’ve had similar results when facing new opponents and trying to just adapt to their playstyle. If we’re only doing a 1 match format (like Ranked matches), I don’t seem to have enough life/rounds to really put it into effect. Now if we played multiple fights, like in Player matches, I will generally have enough time to fight back and even up the match count after I figure out their game. The hardest part about that strategy is that Cammy has to put her body on the line every time for any experiment, and they all give your opponent great opportunities if you fail.

I find doing the “go fucking insane crazy mode” with a little bit of relentless rush down appears to catch most people off guard in a 1 match setting, but it really comes down to deciding on the fly what you think the opponent isn’t going to expect and hoping you’re right.

I too wish that /Downback wasn’t the be-all-end-all answer to Cammy. Though when I do manage to pull out victories against turtle players, it feels satisfying most times. :slight_smile: Even if one of those wins only consisted of me chain throwing them from one end of the level to the other 100%->0. Though I’ve yet to find trouble dealing with anyone who tries to out offense me.

71

lol? Throw them.

72

hm where you from?

73

i think cammy is good. not top tier, but still strong

simple gameplan:
get close and perform one of three options:

  • throw: beats blocking, slow moves. above avg damage on the throw, gets to maintain momentum
  • ex dive kick: beats most things that will counter the throw attempt like low jabs and whiff grabs, into a combo for really big damage
  • low short low jab: also beats most things that avoid the throw, easily verifiable into low short -> rh drill. on block, you still get to set up a throw/dive kick situation

ex dive kick and the damage you get off of it will get people to break their throw-mashing habits really quick.

cammy has a lot of things going for her imo:

  • great movement ability; fast jump, walking speed and dashes. also has dive kicks for additional mobility
  • best backdash in the game; against some characters she can bait whiff throws with a backdash and punish with low forward -> drill
  • ex dive kick is crazy good, regular dive kick is good too
  • high damage
  • above average normal moveset; one of the few characters in the game that can play footsies well
  • to complement footsies, she can get rh drill off of max range low forward
  • ex drill is arguably the best reactionary fireball counter in the game

what you shouldn’t do with cammy:

  • use spin knuckle
  • use hooligan
  • attempt to poke with cannon drill
  • continually try to cross up with j.short and get mad when it doesnt work

think of cammy as a more well-rounded rufus; she’s not as ridiculous as rufus with ultra, but she’s definitely got a million tools rufus wishes he had when he doesn’t have ultra

she’s also got other things to fall back on other than divekick pressure, unlike rufus. she also has an ex messiah kick that doesn’t cost any bar

74

Southern California

75

This is really a good point. Cammy wins more on playing against the player than playing against the character. So online isn’t rally a good environment for learning Cammy.

However, sometimes the opposite happens to me: I play people who are playing best of 5, and first two rounds I destroy them and then they slowly figure out Cammy’s weaknesses, and then I lose three rounds in a row. Very frustrating.

But I haven’t quit her yet. I played her even more last night, and subsequently dropped to 3000BP. Then I took a break, played against one of my friends Gief vs. Akuma, a fight that realllllly tests your patience (I was Gief), and after we stopped, I went back to Ranked matches with Cammy. I think having that session of playing a friend and remembering to be patient and playing smart and stuff really helped a bit over playing random people online all the time, because when I went back, I immediately was playing better with Cammy and got myself back up to 3500.

So the lesson learned is very much related to Vyktoria’s point: stop playing Ranked from time to time, play long sessions against one player to sort of re-focus your mind, regardless of whether or not you are using Cammy, and then go back to Ranking. Just a good way to gather yourself.

In any case, I’m still pounding away with Cammy, and I did much better last night. I still think she has a tremendous amount of weaknesses compared to most characters, because you have to use Throws almost exclusively as your means of being a threat (unlike other characters who can use Chip Damage to be a threat with a supplement of Throws), but her advantage is that she can get in for Throws better than most characters.

  • James
76

I would say step-away for a bit. Sometimes to get better at something, you need to stop doing it for awhile. I realize this might not be your problem, but if it is, try playing some other characters or games for a time, then come back to Cammy. You may look at playing her in a whole new way.

:wonder: Just my two cents. Haven’t really put in enough time to comment on whether she sucks or not.

77

Agree. I am sometimes like that like just 30mins ago I did some ranked matches and I failed horribly. Even lost to another Cammy but I’m not going to let that stop me. Learn from my mistakes, take a breather and I should be better.

78

That u did, sir…that u did

but i sorta just let u go crazy around me…cammy is like a needle…if your not precise, your worthless…the way you let the match against me go was trying to predict what id do instead of seeing it go down before i did it. i just had to wait out every typical cammy strike point then strike when u went for it and i defended

79

Now the question is should I still bow down to you?!?!?!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
naw! :smiley:

80

I’m interested in your opinion on this, Campbell, because I don’t see some of the things you are seeing. So lemme pick your brain for a bit.

This I don’t agree with, unless I’m just using the wrong normals. Maybe it’s just certain characters, but I feel like, when I played against Gootecks for example, Balrog’s normals beat all of my normals. Then again, I think all of Balrog’s Normals beat everyone’s normals, so it might not be a Cammy problem. But for the most part, I feel her normals are only okay. Against really patient players, they can just keep blocking because the Normals really don’t get you much. They really are there to get you in for a walk-up throw. But when I use characters like Viper and can do Thunder Knuckles off of Low Forward and be safe AND do chip damage, I just feel like it makes the Normals so much more powerful. Not having moves to do Block Damage makes her Normals more useless than other characters against really patient and smart players who know that Cammy’s Normals are largely a facade… they are there solely to make you fooled into thinking you’re under pressure so Cammy can take advantage of your mistakes. But in reality, they just need to look out for Throws or be ready for Dive Kicks.

The only one I do out of habit is poking with the damn Drill. THAT I have to stop. 'Cause that kills me every time.

I’m trying to figure out what move that is. 'Cause if you are referring to the Cannon Spike, I can only half agree with that. I agree with that because, yes, if Rufus is being rushed down, he has no DP to save himself unless he has Meter.

But to me, Rufus needs to save his meter for that move. And in general, he usually has the meter for it if he doesn’t waste it for no reason in other situations. And using it as a psychic DP or a means by which to escape things is much better than the Cannon Spike because the Cannon Spike has none of the range that EX Messiah Kick has. Messiah Kick almost never misses opponents next to you where as the Cannon Spike whiffs against people more often than I can stand, and the opponent is usually crouching only half a body away from me.

And at least when blocked, the EX Messiah Kick has some form of mind game to play in which you can get away with it if it is blocked. Your chances aren’t good against good players, but there still is that chance. Whereas a blocked Cannon Spike can pretty much mean the death of you as a lot of characters can even punish it super easily with an Ultra on reaction, without ever worrying about any sort of mind games Cammy can produce. If you block it, you kill her. It’s as easy as that. The EX Cannon Spike should have been totally safe, like ST style. That would have been really cool, actually. :slight_smile:

And lastly, Rufus is still good enough, obviously, to be a top tier character. I don’t think Cammy will ever get there, even with the decent DP. So it doesn’t feel like Rufus is really hurting. But now I’m nitpicking your words, 'cause your point isn’t that Cammy is as good as Rufus. So I’ll shut up now.

But I would like to get more feedback from you, Campbell, if you’ve got it. Anything to help my Cammy game is appreciated.

  • James