There sure are a lot of minority Islamic groups that love terrorism: Boko Haram, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah…
Let’s be clear here, since the entire debate I’m seeing in the last few pages seems to be missing the point. The idea that only radical Islam is an issue is false. Islam itself is a problem. Islam is a plague and the people that think it should be tolerated are part of the problem. They are refusing to stand up against a violent, repressive, backwards religious force that harms virtually everyone it comes into contact with, and the greatest harm it inflicts are the regions in which it has the greatest influence and power. I recommend reading Ibn Warraqs book “Why I Am Not A Muslim” for great insight into this, but to sum up, the greatest damage Islam does is not to the West, but in countries it rules over, like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran. The utter stupidity and hypocrisy of defending a religion that stifles education, freedom of speech and thought, and human rights, and then claiming you’re virtuous for doing so, is disgusting.
How about getting it through your thick skull that Islam does far more damage to the people under its yoke than the people who only have to come into contact with it once in a while? How about imagining being a woman stuck in one small room, with nothing to do, no one to talk to, under the penalty of death for leaving this one, small room to do anything, or talk to anyone? I’ve read about women risking their lives to go out and sew textiles in Afghanistan, risking their god damned lives to do some manual labor, because it is better than staying in something that is no better than a sensory deprivation torture chamber.
How about imagining a man who doesn’t agree with his religion, doesn’t have a problem with other people believing it, but he doesn’t believe it? How about imagining that man living in abject terror of exposing his own beliefs, his lack of faith, since apostasy is punishable by EXECUTION. How about imagining being put into a sphere of thought utterly revolving around ancient, superstitious texts and having to form every thought, and your entire way of life, around these INDISPUTABLE religious truths.
How about imagining being a man that dared to hold hands with your girlfriend in public and for this great crime, had to endure both you and your lover being beaten within an inch of your life? How about imagining being a woman thrown into a prison because your boyfriend engaged in peaceful protests, and then raped to the point where you would prefer death?
How about imagining a religious culture that enforces its edicts so completely that peoples own family members will turn on and even KILL each other over a lack of obedience? How about imagining a religious culture that celebrates killers, excuses rapists, and treats women worse than animals? Imagine being a man who is told you must kill your sister or daughter for her “dishonor” and realizing that, if you don’t do this, you will be shamed, excluded, and vilified in your own community if you refuse? Or imagine being that woman, as your mother straps you to a bed, soaks you in kerosene, and lights you on fire while the rest of your family prevents anyone from stopping your brutal execution as your screams echo in the streets as you’re burnt alive?
Of course as I just showed in that link above, there’s no reason to IMAGINE any of this, as it’s not IMAGINARY at all, it’s real, it’s sick, twisted brutality and Islam is the reason it happens. Stop defending this shit. Defending Islam is no better than defending any other brutal, totalitarian system from history that oppresses and brutalizes the people unfortunate enough to live and suffer under it, or come into contact with it. People always look back in history and say “why didn’t anyone say anything/do anything to stop this horrible system” from serfdom to caste systems to slavery to communism to what have you, and oh look, it’s happening again. It’s because people want to be “understanding” of a fucked up, shitty system and then pat themselves on the back for it, rather than hating it, and standing against it. If you say you’re doing this because you care about people in the Middle East, you’re dumb as a brick, because yours should be among the strongest voices calling this religion to account for itself, because the people there are the ones who suffer the most because of it.
In summation, fuck Islam and fuck anyone that tries to call it anything other than the piece of dog shit it is.
That’s what I’ve been saying for the last few pages
I hear you.
Besides The_Dragon disliking all of Islam, this has mostly been 10 pages of people who agree not all muslims are terrorist. Thats been the general consensus for years. Its a completely illogical and racist leap to assume so. The problem is in the media there is this weird thing growing, which is you cant even discuss the culture of islam at all, and you cant have honest intellectual conversations on the left of even radical islam.
It was so funny spending like an hour going through bernie sanders tweet against this attack, and seeing his supporters rail him for saying we should destroy ISIS. They were yelling at him to focus on guns, and homophobia. LOL. Thats where we have come as a culture, and those tweets are mirrored in mainstream(not just cnn. From huffpost, to buzzfeed, to vloggers, to bloggers, to cnn, to msnbc) media and thought.
No sane human being doesnt think we need muslim allies. We know the majority of them arent terrorist. This is a very basic concept we all understand for the most part.
Even still, you just cant passively not address the totality of the issues at hand in fear of affecting stupid people with the “wrong” thoughts about islam, or offending people.
There is a reason that one of the most violent religious books ever (arguably above the koran), the old testament, doesnt have this same “group problem” as Islam.
I don’t think anyone is saying “all muslims are terorists”. People, myself included, are just saying that this is a religion stuck in the Stone Age and it is getting more and more dangerous
“I just don’t buy it that these guys are in this state of denial. I think they’re just in a state of denial to an outsider. They will not admit anything is wrong with their culture to an outsider.”
But i’m not. The logic i’m using is that these people for the most part are a liability.
If Mexicans and Asians immigrate to the US and they fail to integrate, the worst that can happen is that they become involved with gang activity and keep it within their community for the most part. If it spills out, its in the form or robbery and potential causalities are at a minimum because they aren’t looking to do that. If you look at Europe and see their Muslim problem, you’d see that they turn to radicalization and have severe identity issues. when that happens, they don’t keep it among themselves, and target large groups of people when doing criminal activity and actively look to kill the maximum amount of people or hurt. When have you heard of roving rape gangs that are black and or hispanic? I can only think of one case in Boston with 4 central americans.
And no, radicalization isn’t a new problem fostered by thinking bad of Muslims. radicalization has festered and been an issue since the 90’s according to the same governmets that are now turning heel and saying its the peoples fault.
A country needs to access how much of a liability people are when flowing into the country. Its why the US has way more restrictions for Hispanic immigration into the US than it does for Europeans, because of liabilities. Its not fair, but modern countries couldn’t function with all their benifits if they didn’t do this. ITs why the nordic countries have actually scaled back their generous welfare programs in conjunction with the massive influx of illegal muslim immigration
secondly, why should a people allow mass migration of a people that have shown consistently that they become problem groups? Are all muslims bad? No, but is there a inherent problem with their ideology? Of course, but only in the context of western values. It creates conflict and a group that wants to push their shit down everybody elses throat. Its easier to deal with problem natives, and or immigrants from like cultures, ie mexico and US. The same cannot be said for people with wildly different groups.
__
yes if it wasn’t for immmigrants and refugees mnost of us wouldn’t be here, but the difference is that our folks where similar in culture when it came down to it. These folk aren’t, at least for one or two generations
It doesn’t matter what Race or Religion you are. Islam is just being brought into the spotlight more now is all. As many are exploiting religion to bend laws an commit violent acts. Doesn’t mean America should just specifically start cracking down on them.
Religion has nothing to do with One Person or a Group committing violent acts. These groups like Isis and others who commit violence are just flat out Evil. The guy who did the nightclub shooting was more mentally depressed “Wanting to Fit In”, then a full fledged Islam or Isis representer. He had evil intentions regardless of his Religion an he lashed out an committed to his intentions.
The people who commit violent acts are more so the people; then the Religion. While actual rules and laws in these Religions shame and see it as sin to commit Mass Genocide and or taking another’s life. Or torturing people as Isis are skinning people alive. That not fucking Religion thats evil.
No one blamed Religion for the ones in Chicago who were involved with the 42 Shot & 7 Dead over the Weekend.
No one blamed Religion for the ones who were involved with the 344 Homicides in my City Baltimore last year.
No one blamed Religion when the Chicago gang member executed another gang members 9 Year Old child promising him Juice. Then later said they really wanted to Torture him and cut of his ears & fingers.
No one blamed Religion of the 200+ Gangs in Cali who have been killing each other for 3 to 4 generations since the 70’s.
People are Evil. Not the Religions.
Just want to make that clear.
People created religions.
People wrote those evil rules in their “holy” books and told their believers to kill for some bullshit trivial reasons.
Yes there are bad people, and bad people make bad ideas. Some of those ideas just ended up becoming religions because the pushers were good.
Except that’s fucking wrong. People are definitely evil, but so can be religion.
A few figures complied lazily from population and demographic data on Wikipedia:
Islamic countries where homosexuality is punishable by death: Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.
Total population (estimated): 389 million
Total Islamic population (estimated): 295 million
Islamic countries where homosexuality is illegal, but not a capital offense: Algeria, Maldives, Malaysia, Qatar, Somalia and Syria.
Total population (estimated): 105 million
Total Islamic population (estimated): 89 million
**Total population where homosexuality is outlawed or capital: ** 494 million
**Total Islamic population where homosexuality is outlawed or capital: ** 384 million
Now, this is offset by the 20 Muslim nations where homosexuality is legal: Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Chad, Djibouti, Guinea-Bissau, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Niger, Tajikistan, Turkey, West Bank and most of Indonesia.
Even in these 20, LGBTs may still suffer persecution or don’t always enjoy the same rights. The total population of them is around 490 million, and the total Islamic population is around 420~423 million. HOWEVER, this group of country’s values are skewed heavily by Indonesia, who alone has 255 million total people, and is 87.2% Muslim.
Still, to the point of the matter: you have an entire group of people on this planet, larger than the US, the UK, Canada, and France combined, who either kill or imprison homosexuals.
Although I was content with playing the spectator role for the rest of the thread, but just like with the Paris thread I see the same false equivalences and Western projections of Islam appearing once again.
First off, so-called “moderate” Islam, as in ardently following the bare bones precepts of the religion is akin to fundamentalist Christianity, but even moreso (e.g., the bible also advocate stoning for committing adultery [only women], but when was the last time you heard of support for this in the West?). Unlike those in the West who casually call themselves Christians and pick and choose what to follow and bend the rules to fit their lifestyle, for the majority of Muslims there is a hard line. If any Muslim tried to act the same way “Christians” act they wouldn’t be considered Muslim by their peers, especially women, who are put under ridiculous scrutiny. So, although there are many interpretations of the Koran, much of the downright incendiary rhetoric is pretty clear cut, hence there being multiple videos online showing an almost universal agreement of sharia. Which is why honor killings, death to apostates, and other barbaric acts can be met with a silent understanding from “moderates”, even though it’s something they wouldn’t practice themselves. Now, for Muslims either emigrating or already living in more Westernized countries, they face more social and legal pressure to be literally “tolerant” of others. However, once they have successfully proliferated and garnered enough support like in France and Great Britain, they tend to be more vociferous about their ill feelings towards the West. It doesn’t help that 2nd generation Muslims face an identity crisis due to their parents sending them to Islamic schools and shying away from integrating them with Western peoples.
Fundamentalist Christians may operate in a similar way in terms of being tactful when called for (I know from personal experience), but after several centuries of social reformations and scientific pursuits, there are now broad cultural shifts that makes it very difficult for them to any real footing in the modern progressive era, to the point where the church is now making posthumous apologies to Galileo and saying gays shouldn’t be attacked for their “sin”.
So even though Omar Mateen wasn’t growing his beard and belting out “Allahu Ackbar” publicly, his family and religion instilled a hatred, and likely self-hatred that directly impacted his life choices. He just happened to be sick enough to carry out his actions, but there are many Muslims who internalize the same irrational hatred and even laud it on social media or among themselves. This isn’t to say all Muslims under the banner of Islam feel exactly the same way regarding all religious mandates, but even the ones that don’t are pressured into silence or feigning approval of its tenets. This is a core problem.
A former Muslim, Sarah Haider pretty much gives you a bird eye view by talking about her experience:
The problem isn’t solely Islam, the real issue is that Islam is not being put under any rational scrutiny given to fundamentalist Christianity or any other socially wayward ideology or belief system. The ultra-progressives seek to destroy any dialogue under the banner of racism or xenophobia, creating a culture of fear and misguided blame. So as much as I want to walk the fence by projecting blanket Western attitudes and equivalences, it’s simply not possible. You can be against an ideology without dehumanizing people.
Literally doing Gods work huh? 
Oh, apparently Senegal also outlaws homosexuality, and is an Islamic country. Add it to the list, then. There’s probably others.
AND then there’s Bangladesh as well, who is 87% Muslim and outlaws it too. Go and add another 171 million to the totals above, and another 13mil for Senegal.
This changes things to:
**Islamic countries where homosexuality is punishable by death: **Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.
**Total population where homosexuality is punishable by death (estimated): **389 million
**Total Islamic population (estimated): **295 million
Islamic countries where homosexuality is illegal, but not a capital offense: Algeria, Bangladesh, Maldives, Malaysia, Qatar, Senegal, Somalia and Syria (among others).
Total population where homosexuality is punishable by death (estimated): 288 million
Total Islamic population (estimated): 250 million
Total population where homosexuality is outlawed or capital: 678 million
Total Islamic population where homosexuality is outlawed or capital: 545 million
Wow this post is really stupid. Are the gang members in Chicago of a religious variety? No they aren’t. Are people in Baltimore getting murdered by religious fanatics? No they aren’t. Etc. People are blaming Islam because there are numerous groups who go and cause terror in the name of Islam and want to violently expand their religion, not to mention the murder of gays, suppression of education, mistreatment of women, brutal criminal punishment: all products of Islam. Also, the Orlando shooter pledged himself to ISIS. That matters. You can try to make excuses for it all you want, but the fact of the matter is he was pledged to a major terrorist group when he committed his crime. I don’t know what is scarier at this point, Islam, or the fact that progressives are so willing to defend Islam despite it’s appalling acts/views. Another case of progressiveness being a mental disorder imo
Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Appeared In A Documentary On The BP Oil Spill!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lu-ej4XiH8
No, a mental disorder is literally not being able to tell the difference between a terrorist group and the world’s second largest religion.
Pretty sure 99% of people killed by ISIS have been Muslim and you’re over here sipping your tea being like “islam is the problem”. ISIS is a problem for muslims, too.
I can’t wait till some deranged white guy in West Virginia shoots up a planned parenthood for Jesus so I can check back here and hear you say “Obviously it’s a mental health problem, they were a lone wolf.”
stuff
are we doing ourselves any favor by not seperating Islam from ISIS? Its shit derived from their book.
when that white dude shoot up the planned parenthood facility in colorado, nobody on SRK was going lone wolf. We shitted on him and his bullshit beliefs.
Its like you are programmed to and or completly used to arguing to fox tier trolls.
Yeah, HIS bullshit beliefs. Not Christianity’s at large.
You’re not going “Christianity is the problem! We shouldn’t let any Christians in!”?
No?
Why not?
yes we did
we always complain how stupid Christianity is, and how it blocks progress in the United States. And how Christianity should be made fun of and criticized at every turn for its hypocrisy. There are only 2 people on this site that defend christianity. Everybody else always shits on it