If you really wanted to lag cheat, you could set up a box that only increases outgoing lag. It’s not a huge technical challenge, but, honestly, what’s the point.
They are playing to win. 
regarding the lag issue, am i understanding this correctly - that to minimize the teleporting and input delays etc, it’s best to set network smoothing OFF? and not HIGH? the notes regarding the smoothing says to set it high when the connection is iffy so i would like a definitive confirmation on the matter. also, i notice against some opponents, there are times when i do an attack and it clearly hits them and they look ready to go into their falling animation, then out of nowhere they are in uppercut/shoryuken animation and i’m the 1 falling (for some reason this is most prevalent vs ken players etc. am i only seeing this on my end, or is the opponent seeing something different on his screen?
I haven’t tested it, but I believe that network smoothing adds input delay (just for you) to make the action appear smoother.
The remote opponent sees something different on his screen. With network smoothing off, the local player acts at normal speed. The remote player has the first part of moves (the amount depends on network latency) ‘shaved off’.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7973900&postcount=79
Your opponent never sees your attack. The way the netcode works is when you input a command, it marks it with the frame you did it on. You send that to your opponent and on his local machine he rewinds the game to that frame, and resimulates the game from that frame to the current frame w/ the inputs he had made. This is all done “instantly” behind the scenes.
Example, lets assume it takes 5 frames to send inputs to each other:
Frame 0: both players standing still
Frame 1: Your opponent inputs a throw (you wont know about this till frame 6!)
Frame 2: You input a dragon punch (you see this immediately on your machine, your opponent doesnt know about it till frame 7)
Frame 3: (You see your dp start and hit the opponent)
…
Frame 6: You receive a packet that says your opponent inputted a throw on frame 1. The game rewinds to frame 1 and “instantly” resimulates the game from frame 1 to frame 6 with the throw input on frame 1 and your DP input on frame 2. The result is you being thrown and the dragon punch not coming out. The game instantly snaps from you being 4 frames into the dragon punch attack to being 5 frames into the throw animation.
Frame 7: Your opponent gets a packet wth your DP input. It rewinds to frame 2 and resimulates, but the result is the same: you get thrown and the dp doesn’t come out. Both player’s games are now in sync.
Hope that helps, its kind of hard to explain.
I love rollbacks especially when you are being throw looped by boxer.
One thing to keep in mind about lag is that it’s asymmetrical. In other words, it can often appear to be more/less laggy for you than it is for your opponent. There are many technical factors that can cause this, but there are factors in gameplay that can magnify this difference.
For example, if I play Dhalsim and only throw out occasional attacks the game on the other end won’t have many chances to roll-back and re-simulate things, because most of the time I’m not doing anything to affect the game. But if my opponent is playing a mashing Honda, doing one HHS after another, then the game on my end could roll back many, many times during the match. On his end it may look almost lag free, while on my end it might look like a nightmare of a connection.
The unfortunate result is that the game is at it’s worst in the tightest situations. If Zangief is trying to tick, tick tick -> SPD on a knocked down Ryu who’s trying to piano out a SRK there will be a LOT of inputs on both ends in a small amount of time. The likelyhood for rollbacks during this period is FAR higher than during most of the match. When Ryu throws an occasional fireball and Zangief answers at some other point with a single lariat, there are not many inputs and thus, rollbacks will be less common and/or less noticeable.
Beyond that, there are many technical factors that can cause problems. Wireless connections tend to cause more packet loss, which results in more rollbacks. Some ISPs are just plain overloaded or are bad at keeping their equipment in good shape. I battled with Time Warner Cable in West LA for quite some time until I finally gave up and switched to DSL. And don’t forget downloads. Even though you may not have torrents running, don’t forget about Windows and other programs running auto-updates and such in the background.
At the end of the day all you can really do is do your best to make sure your connection is as optimal as possible and avoid people who have bad connections, for whatever reasons that may be.
Well said SweetJV.
All I can add is that if you’re frustrated with HDR, go back and play SF2 HF on XBLA or Hyper SF2 on AE for awhile, then you’ll see just how far netcode has come (and how bad it could have been, thank you Mr.Cannon!).
I opted for offline, takes that whole netcode issue away. :wgrin:
hear, hear
Well-written SJV and ratman. I wish this thread could be stickied or put this info in a faq on the psn and xbl forums . That would (should!) make ppl reconsider joining rooms/games over 100 ping, where I find all these lag issues multiply badly. Ill play up to 150, but never over that.
This info definitely calms me on the amount of cheating/ turbo crap going on. Its still there :
http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/call-duty-4-glitches/97739-standby-use-lag-switch-cod4.html
(I’m just including this for ppl who haven’t heard of or seen these switches b4, I don’t advocate them at all.)Sigh.
But at least we’re aware that lag and huge ping really exacerbate things.
I switched to no smoothing a few months ago and I wished I did it sooner - its a lot easier to see the packets catching up. Though its no fun losing that way.
Hella better than anything available 7-10 years ago, I think.
Too true! Even SF4 is crap compared to HDR and GGPO. It may look less warpy, but its so frustrating when your moves don’t come out and you’re really not sure whether you did it late or if input-delay screwed ya. Fixed/No input delay + rollbacks is a godsend to online fighting games. And ya, the Cannons are squarely to thank for that! :lovin:
Wow, that’s really sad that they have nothing better to do than to teach others how to cheat for a victory that doesn’t mean much.
I could understand cheating to get a job promotion, or some huge amount of money, school too(even though i don’t condone that), but its just a game.
Correct me if I’m wrong but:
More smoothing = more lag, less teleporting and rollbacks
no smoothing = no lag, more teleporting and rollabacks
right?
And WTF @ those guys making lag switches. Their grammar and writing style says a lot about the kinds of people who use those things.
Smoothing masks the teleporting and rollbacks by increasing input delay. I’ve tried highest smoothing, and the delay is horrible, like hold forward release and fei walks two more character widths with the stick at neutral.
I’d rather see the teleporting and rollbacks so my timing can remain largely unaffected.
One thing i found that helps with the lag is removing the router altogether when i play SF. I used to make sure no computers were turned on when i played but still had lag issues sometimes. now whenever i play i just plug my cable modem directly into the xbox. it is a noticeable improvement. of couse there will always be lag, but every little thing you can do to reduce it makes the game more enjoyable.
sometimes ill be playing and just not doing very well, missing reversals etc. then ill remember my router is still plugged in…
ive had the same thoughts about lag switches. i even made a post about it a long time ago. but unless you play ranked who cares. if a room is laggie, or the end of every close round is laggie, ill just move on. whatever. losing when there was a bunch of lag doesnt bother me in the least, other than the time wasted trying to find good matches
This guy sprang to mind straight away when i read your posts a couple of days back, but i decided not to post on it, because i don’t like calling people out unless it’s really blatant. It’s happened to me lots of times playing him too, but i figured “it could be just coincidence or whatever” so i let it go.
Just by chance i ran into him earlier this evening on on XBL in a best out of 3 round match, so i said “let’s see what happens”.
Sure enough, the first round was going his way, i had a bad start because of a poor choice of opening move, and his sagat kept on the pressure and won it eventually. The connection was perfect all the way. Second round, i got a better opening and kept on the pressure with my dictator, and was ahead, and looking like i was going to take it. Suddenly there was lag, slowdown, all sorts of crap connection issues messing up the match just as i had my nose in front and a decent attack going. Luckily i had an OK lead and manage to take the round, but i lost some health and only barely won it. A little too convenient for my liking…
I didn’t stick around for the last round, i dropped out (if i have to drop because of bullshit connection i try never to do it in a deciding round) and i messaged him to call him on it, telling him that i had been watching out for sudden “convenient lag”, and he had just proved my suspicion right. I told him i wasn’t sure whether it was deliberate or not, but i would be putting him on my avoided list just in case.
As of 6 hours later, he still hasn’t messaged me back…Draw your own conclusions from that…
EDIT: On a COMPLETELY unrelated note, i just googled it and there are LOADS of ads online for hacked pads with BUILT IN lag switches, like the one below, so you don’t even have to reach past your control pad. You have an “i’m a douchebag” switch right there on your controller for when things aren’t going your way. So lame…
I don’t think nappynightmares is cheating with lag or anything like that. I’ve always gotten a good connection to him with limited lag. His Sagat is the best I’ve ever seen on XBL.
That being said, I am certain he is using turbo. He frequently does tick throw with j.short. He doesn’t even bother trying to be sneaky about it. He just does it all the time. I will be mashing throw as hard as I can and he always throws me. It’s unbelievable.
I don’t think Nappy uses turbo. He has a very good anti zangief zoning game, though. 
Wow thanks to this thread I understand a lot of what’s actually going on. I think this guy I’m playing online (PSN) is doing everything you talked about. Can’t tick throw him and I get lagged out against his weak honda (he only jump strong to hands and I can’t do anything about it). This needs to be stickied or something
**gearskiller0213 ** --> that bitch is a lag cheater for real. The fucker is a stupid bastard, worse then that check his fucking profile, I dont care if that bitch drops every match, but matches we played was too fucking laggy. Went from good connection then as soon as he knows he is goin to lose it gets fucking laggy. ANOTHER WORLD CLASS-BITCH behind Norieaga