they’ve got those Ilyama Prolite monitors that they used for ST at Evo selling for like $400, supposedly 0 lag. probably better than any plasma tv out there.
scanlines on an LCD have never looked good to me. even when you add bilinear filtering to smear the pixels together kind of what it would look like on a CRT. just doesn’t look the same. when I look at a CRT I usually don’t notice the scanlines, on emulator + scanlines I definitely do.
Scanlines on LCD’s and such do not compare to CRT’s because LCD’s do not need them, so of course they’re going to look a little off. But they’re good as a filter along with bilinear when you up the resolution of an otherwise low resolution game to 3x or more, if you ask me.
I agree. The real question is: why would anyone play Online Edition on an LCD in the first place?
Did they mention a timeframe for the patch? It’s like the only thing I’m looking forward to gaming related this year, except Jet set radio HD.
Because not everyone still have their 25+ years old crt’s lying around to play on? Contrary to what you might think, not everyone also has a shitty 200 bucks flat tv, but a proper, actually lagless lcd monitor. Yes, those things actually exist, look it up.
I didn’t mention lag though? All I’ve talked about is visuals, my point being that no matter how you spruce it up, 3S will never look as good on a monitor as a CRT. And that I don’t understand why you wouldn’t have one if you’re a fan of 3S or 2D low-res games (They cost pretty much nothing these days).
Fix the random lag online…
Original Arcade music please
Show your wins/losses in player
Make Oro’s dick bigger
Great thread bob -Hiyooma
Because nowdays good CRT’s are hard to find. Sure, one could go into a recycling center to pickup some old screen, but those are said +25 years old and have a shitty picture that’ll die anytime soon anyway. Ebay sometimes has old medical monitors on sale that have a very good picture with good connections, but they are either too small, like 19", or cost a lot + shipping. But you do have a point there that old games look absolutely crap on modern LCD’s, but I personally use one just out of convinience.
I’ve heard you can use powerstrip to do some kind of custom resolution work with LCDs and bring it pretty close to how it would look on a CRT minus the scanlines. bilinear filtering is like the poor man’s “blur everything together and squint” approach but supposedly if you’re willing to get technical you can force a modern HD display to handle the pixels “correctly.” this is just through the grapevine though, I have no idea how to do it myself. personally I just turn on bilinear filtering, sit far away from the screen, and live with it.
if they still made commercial CRTs I’d own a new one. still playing on a CRT my family got in the 90s, ended up in my possession after they bought an HDTV. it bleeds purple from the left and right sides of the screen for the first 10 minutes after you turn it on and every color it ouputs seems to heavily favor red but it’s not too bad besides that. some overscan too but you just expect that I suppose.
Actually, I wouldn’t mind having a CRT at home if I lived in a bigger place.
Fact is I live in a crowded city, where space is very expensive and I can’t afford to have two TVs, plus the LCD serves as my monitor since I hooked my computer on it. Saves space, works fine, sure CRT looks better, but if they improved the scanlines filter, it could still look waaaaay better and much closer to the original look.
Here’s what the game at 640x480 with a scanlines generator looks like.
If you ask me, it’s dope.
The scanlines effect is just one black pixel repeated on a line, leaving the next one empty.
It’s one of the easier things to do. It would need an opacity setting, and voilà.
Toodles makes a scanlines generator that’s even better and cheaper than the one displayed in the video (well, cheaper if you live in the US), I wish him good luck selling these, but I’d rather see IG fixing their whack scanlines filter.
I wrote to IG’s Dave half a year ago, and he replied that they had many different feedback on the scanlines, some liked it thinner, some thicker, darker, etc… so they went with what they thought looked good. So, right now, he still thinks it looks good.
Ryan mentioned it, we should voice it if we find it’s important (and be very specific about what we want).
Of course, our set of priorities depends on who we are and what we like in the game, but I’m one of the few that thinks this game should look like it’s been intended to, with big black scanlines and no other filter.
To e it matters just as much as the game playing land sounding like the original.
The only problem with LCD’s and old games is that an LCD screen has only one, native resolution it works and looks the best in, everything else, wheter it’s larger or smaller, is scaled and mushed up which ends up looking like shit, no clarity and the pixels are lost. Then there’s also the issue of aspect ratio; Pretty much all modern LCD panels confine to the 16:9 aspect ratio where as almost all older games use 4:3 (well technically 3s uses some weird wide screen aspect ratio in it’s native resolution, but the game is made to look “right” in 4:3, same as for like Tekken 3) so there’s another problem there. For example my Asus monitor, for some weird and stupid reason, cannot force the picture into 4:3 aspect on 640x480, it’s forced into 16:9, but on like 800x600 and higher it works fine. A scanline generator isn’t going to help much in my oppion when the resolution and aspect ratio is wrong, it’s cheaper and easier just to get an CRT if you really care that much.
And as for 3SOE’s shitty scanlines, I made my voice clear on them, here’s it again for clarity:
This might be all in vain without the proper examples.
So no, more emu GGPO screencaps will not help them determine a closer fit to Arcade. More Arcade photos will, even if they apparently had a cabinet in their offices. Without a proper explanation into the how and why the scanlines look the way they do, especially not out of 1999 era Capcom Japan CPS3 hardware division, they will not be able to come to any conclusions. Hopefully, at worst its not like the one sound guy attempting his own Frankenstein under a tight schedule and no opposition to his choices as it gets lost in the development shuffle.
It does make me wonder about the contact between Capcom Japan and America then given to Iron Galaxy, as I remember an old exchange about Marvel vs Capcom 2 on the Capcom Unity deep where most wouldn’t look or care about.
“I think we need the Arcade ROM Japan version”
> “We gave you this (other version) already, why do you need the Arcade version if the current one works to port?”
“I still believe we need the Arcade ROM”
> “Please clarify, WHY”
> is the Japan contact.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/glake/blog/2009/04/29/mvc2_project_kickoff_[part_1]
- We also afraid that you are not understand the complexity of the difference between Arcade version and console version.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/glake/blog/2009/05/01/mvc2_project_kickoff_[part_2]
Marvel 2, does seem to have lag added issues by using the new filters, again something to consider.
scanlines aren’t a standard thing. that’s what hes getting at i think.
it’s never going to look the same because you’re not playing the game on a versus city stock monitor. luminance, saturation, contrast, etc. are not going to be the same. scan lines won’t appear the same because that space between lines isn’t an industry standard afaik.
the scanlines just need to look cleaner. currently it fucks with color and stuff.
On the contrary, I think the reason why the scanlines look so bad in 3SOE is because they DID look at an actual cab monitor and modeled them out of what they saw there. They might have an old, old american cab 3s with a faded and possibly incorrectly tuned screen which might explain why the scanlines are so horrible in 3SOE, altough why do they call the scanlines filter “scanlines” instead of something like “arcade monitor” which would be more accurate is beyond me. Honestly, the only thing they need to do is use the most simplest scanlines filter that almost any emulator uses; Draw a black bar over every other horizontal line of pixels, of which intensity you can prefebly control, as g0ldenchild562’s post above shows (I think it’s the stock FBA 191 intensity out of 255, larger number being less visible scanlines, lower more visible) Since the PS2/DC version didn’t have any scanlines option in it originally means that IG added the scanlines filter to 3SOE by hand, which means they should be able to tweak it how they see fit, so I don’t think it’s a matter of implementation. Most people play 3SOE on an LCD so they’re going to look good enough on that, CRT users most likely won’t be using any filters anyway so everybody wins, right?
Also, they should NOT add anymore filter, the current ones are enough, although Smooth and Crisp are still mixed. Smooth, Crisp + Scanlines are the only thing needed IMO, you can save your Super Eagle filters and such for your emulators or “HD” re-releases of games (note that 3SOE was never marketed being any sort of HD re-release)
UPDATE
I took time to write to Dave at IG and, amongst other things, offered to recolour all their extra lifebar portraits (the ones for these colour pack I loathe) myself so that they can put the original HUD back in.
I also asked to have plain black instead of grey as an option, said a word on the scanlines and relayed what ESN mentioned about giving them all the info about hitboxes, charge partition, etc… (without being too specific as my mail was getting long).
Here’s the short part of his reply as he’s pretty busy at the moment (I guess he won’t mind if I post it up here for you) :
· Different colors for portraits in MP. Thanks for the offering of help, definitely appreciate it, but I think we’ve got a bead on a solution already. If that falls through I will get back in touch J
· Plain black v. Grey, probably won’t happen as I haven’t seen a huge outcry for this.
· We might revisit the scan line effect, but again that wasn’t on most people’s top-10 list. I feel like this comes down to personal taste, and no matter what we do with it someone will think it looks bad.
· Fix all sounds. We are going to try to address some of the worst offenders, but the bottom line is this will never be “arcade perfect” as the audio hardware on CPS3 is different than on PS3 and 360, and no amount of energy will ever get them sounding exactly the same. Some of the worst offenders we will try to tune to make better, but this will never be Arcade Perfect.
· Make it look exactly like Arcade, similar to audio this isn’t possible. The resolution on the arcade monitor isn’t one we can display on modern TVs, which means we need to do something to make it work on real TV resolutions. This alters the image, and is unavoidable.
· Hitboxes and special meters, we’ve been asked by Capcom to not include Hitboxes in the game.
· Getting ROMs, etc. Legally we can’t take any assets (even if they were legally obtained) from someone outside of the company. It’s really complicated but the super short version is we open ourselves up to a bunch of lawsuits. This isn’t an issue really, anyway, as we have access to most (if not all) of that stuff from Capcom.
-Dave
so are they going to give us the option of having the side bar things turned off at least? and just having that grey background there?
black would be ideal but as long as they give an option without all the text and shit it’s better than what it is currently.
Wow, fuck you Capcom.
From what I understand, they planned on taking the achievements down and leaving the grey in, but, you can also read that they didn’t feel we wanted it that bad.
Actually, I think we’re so afraid to take too much from their time for things that are not worth, that we shy away and don’t even mention things we’d like.
I don’t think it would be such a big effort to put plain black there, maybe it’s a lot harder than it looks, but I would really appreciate to have that option.
Same for the original HUD it may be something possible if we really ask for it.
As Tebbo says, there’s no standard on scanlines, and it all depends on what monitor the pictures are displayed, original resolution (Capcom games used even number of rows while SNK’s used odd, I think), but the subject has been documented in depth on many places, Toodles’s T-SLG threadhere is a good place to start with if I recall. So it’s just a matter of being clear about what we want.
So far, I can say the colour bleed effect really ruined the graphics, it has to go.
A darkness adjustment may be a good option, no ?
Haven’t taken the time to reply to Dave yet, but I will asap.
Well, I’m optimistic.
Am I the only one in the world who can turn off the sidebars?
I’ve played OE on tons of TVs, HD non-HD. I’ve used composite cables and HDMI as well. Sidebars stayed off on all of them.
on hdtvs you can put it on “stretched” which does turn off the sidebars, BUT the game itself will be all stretched out and everything will be goof troop.
youre example is of a crt tv which displays the game the proper way.
crt’s are pretty much free on craigslist. if you care enough to want want 3rd strike to look good and do not want any lag at all, just pick one up for less then $20 on CL.