One Piece Thread: Gear 2nd!

[TimTim]

OP is actually one of hte more logical series, which is the only reason it’s worth thinking about it.

I guess it’s the ‘Strider’ from MvC2 argument. If played perfectly, without execution error, he was essentially unbeatable. But he had to play perfectly for that, without any errors. The reality of the shake down though was there were a few people good with him, one person great with him, and the guy who was great with him, still lost…there were other characters looked upon as better.

If Caeser played a perfect game, no Ace doesn’t ‘win’, but Caeser won’t play that game. He’s NOT optimized. He’s NOT trained as a fighter. Luffy beat the SHIT out of him once he got past his parlor trick. It wasn’t even close…it was like Luffy vs Hodi again, and left us all like “when is Luffy going to fight someone on his level”…Luffy losing to him twice if I recall was completely forgotten. Let’s be real about some things. Ace is pretty familiar with the ‘New world’. As a seat on Whitebeard’s ship(s) - he’s fought logias before. As someone who has Conc Haki, it should be expected that he can hit Caeser. Caesar only has ONE thing going for him in the fight, and that’s something that “we” don’t know how effective he is with it. Someone can pick Strider/Doom, and they may be great at locking down Cable teams, but what about more mobile characters or people who know what hte strength of the power is? It’s a whole different game at that point. “We” don’t know the range. “We” have no concept as to the difficulty Caeser has to do it. “We” have no clue how adept Caeser is in general to controlling things beyond ‘his mass’. The safe money is on its not easy, otherwise people would drop like flies around him. That means htere’s an execution window that has to be mastered (something I doubt he’s done as a non-fighter)…so no, I don’t think and have a REAL hard time believing that he can just shut shit down on people. Again, the people he did it against weren’t some uber rush down type. Like Spiral vs Mags…its one thing to chuck swords full screen, its a whole nother with Mags tri-jumping that ass with a psylocke assist.

So if you want to play mmaxed out theory fight - go for it. The laser Admiral is GOAT. Luffy should have lost almost every fight he’s been in. Miihawk is selling himself short. etc…

But if you want to talk, if they met at your crib for a first to ten, what would happen? Naw. Caeser would win the first fight due to ignorance…than Ace would pretty much run the score up on’em and walk away with the word ‘Fraud’ - plastered on Caeser’s nose.

• :bluu:

Ok I feel that. I agree with that argument. Good talk.

Anyone know if the next chapter is out tomorrow. The last one was a fucking bore.

[white_shadow]

Because Ace just had to go after The Pimp.

What’s pluckin my nerve endings though - Luffy verse Enel is how I see Luffy verse Blackbeard going. As it stands - Luffy’s DF power would translate well to hurting BB - and the added haki makes it an even better match-up. No parts of me feel its an impossible battle. I just don’t see Luffy and Co as a crew besting BB’s crew…yeah the Monster Trio would get theirs, but the drop off is HARSH.

I could go for a reprise of Enel in the New World…he just seems ripe for Warlord position strength wise.

• :bluu:

Even with Armaments, Midgame era Luffy is going to have a helluva time against Yonkou Teach. Blackbeard can suck him in and Quake him with the Goro Goro no Mi which is DEVASTATING since Luffy would be fully human once they made contact with each other. I’m not certain if Teach can utilize Haki at this point, but since he can recognize Haki I’m sure he’s at least prepared when facing a user. Don’t get me wrong, Luffy is slick and could bring the pain for a little bit, but BB’s Logia ability wards off damage somewhat and he has an inhuman pain threshold. (Got close-ranged Quaked by Blancobeard and still managed to walk away.)

I’m not even going to get into the fact that Yonkou Blackbeard has even more DF abilities now…

As for the crew. Yeah I agree with that. Even pre-timeskip OG Negrobeard posse still takes care of 3/5ths of the Mugiwaras easily. Van Auger vs Ussop has always been my dream match with that Sniper Wolf type-ish, but Ussop simply doesn’t have that killer instinct needed to face a man of his prowess… yet.

[Unreallystic]

But while BB is a logia ‘technically’, he can’t dodge stuff,like other logias…as he himelf said - he absorbs everything most of all ‘pain’. So yeah its still a hard fight, but just like enel was a hard fight - I’m just saying Luffy is one of the characters who match-up wise - actually ‘stands a chance’ so to speak.

• :bluu:

[Negative-Zer0]

If luffy can lame blackbeard out then it would give him a chance. Turtle jet pistol all day

[Unreallystic]

Heck, Luffy’s stretch ability means he can wrap an arm around ‘something’ when BB tries to suck him in.

And I admit he’d have ot lame BB, but I think he’d do a better job than most.

One thing I’m curious about though is how Luffy’s going to get stronger…I mean OP isn’t like Bleach wit hthe free power-ups, but I dunno, I can’t see Luffy as he is now - as the Pirate King he’s meant to ‘be’. Especially having to cover up for the weaker members of the crew.

• :bluu:

[TimTim]

W

Heck, Luffy’s stretch ability means he can wrap an arm around ‘something’ when BB tries to suck him in.

And I admit he’d have ot lame BB, but I think he’d do a better job than most.

One thing I’m curious about though is how Luffy’s going to get stronger…I mean OP isn’t like Bleach wit hthe free power-ups, but I dunno, I can’t see Luffy as he is now - as the Pirate King he’s meant to ‘be’. Especially having to cover up for the weaker members of the crew.

• :bluu:

When reading the last chapter I was thinking the same thing. If he isn’t the one to eat the mera mera fruit what will he do?
The next step is just to develop extremely powerful Haki like Shanks, Rayleigh, etc. I mean look at those 2. In their Prime they could handle and Admiral like it’s nobodies business so maybe Luffy can too.

[Joshkaz]

His Crew needs to be able to do some boss shit too.
Right now hes got like 2 members who can fuck shit up, 2-3 who can do some damage without going down instantly, 3 who are just there.

[po_pimpus]

While Usopp and Nami are kinda limited, they’re being slept on. Chopper and Brook especially. We STILL haven’t seen anyone in the crew go all out yet, not even Luffy, so judging the crew based on past performances isn’t really fair.

Granted, Nami, Chopper, and Brook are having a hard time with “Art Woman” but I hazard that she would have gotten the drop on anyone other than maybe Zoro and/or Robin with those freaky-ass powers… Luffy is FINALLY about to demonstrate his new level of power, and the others are getting ready to join the dwarves in their war against Doflamingo… So we might actually get to see what everyone can do in this arc.

Just saying, relax and wait to see what the crew has in store. We’re gonna get that long-awaited Usopp/Van Auger match and its gonna be a crowning moment of awesome for long-nose kun.

[Negative-Zer0]

To beat BB luffy is gonna have to pull off some shit

Like jet pistol, Flyxxunfly jet pistol call nami assist into gatling gun

[T20thoughts]

It’s the New World, peeps. And Nami, Brooke and Chopper managed to beat down Hideous Art Lady’s crew even with their Picasso handicap.

As with any freaky power, there’s bound to be an Achilles heel to the art powers. Probably in figuring out how to use one’s weapons and stuff even though they’ve been transformed into something that looks useless. Too bad it’s not Luffy she’s fighting… He’d be all “what the flipping fuck?” and then “Armament… Gomu Gomu no JET TEAPOT THAT LOOKS KINDA LIKE A CHICKEN!”

My guess is they just gang up on her and kick the stuffing out of her, 'cause she’s relying entirely on the art power. Just a guess.

[white_shadow]

Art lady’s powers probably has all the weakness actual paint products do. Like water and solvents.

Heck, Luffy’s stretch ability means he can wrap an arm around ‘something’ when BB tries to suck him in.

And I admit he’d have ot lame BB, but I think he’d do a better job than most.

One thing I’m curious about though is how Luffy’s going to get stronger…I mean OP isn’t like Bleach wit hthe free power-ups, but I dunno, I can’t see Luffy as he is now - as the Pirate King he’s meant to ‘be’. Especially having to cover up for the weaker members of the crew.

• :bluu:

It’s hard to out-lame an Earthquake + several other powers coming at you, especially since Negrobeard could technically destroy entire terrains making keepaway harder. In his current form Luffy could do a decent job at avoiding BB for a while, but Blackbeard isn’t the type to just keel over from even the most brutal attacks, the guy’s a tank. Luffy can take punishment too, but getting quaked a few times will surely put him out of commission. Luffy needs something… more.

It’s hard to imagine how Luffy will get stronger, but seeing guys like Rayleigh and Shanks gives you a hint at how. Developing his Haki to greater heights and learning how to utilize it with his powers more efficiently. Zoro and a few other characters have shown that Haki can create illusions and Sandersonia, Luffy, and a few other characters can create elemental attacks from Haki as well. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the skill than we’ve seen.

[TimTim]

I’m pretty sure Usopp is going to become stupid strong. Just look at his father. He’s one of the strongest pirates among the Red Hairs.

[voodazz]

Zeehahahaha! Who would have thought my little anti-Ace rant would cause such an uproar?

[Tekno_Virus]

Fire causes a chemical reaction…technically a form of rusting…
Phase shifting is based on a combination of pressure and temperature…if the temperature is increased, the element can either change phase states from solid/liquid/gas, or it will change another aspect such as the pressure. With enough heat - the gas would lose density (since we aren’t technically changing the phase itself) - less density would mean that in essence, Caesar would have less control and less impact. It’s why if you leave the top on something that you put in the microwave, you have pressure from moisture turning to gas and and the actual air inside expanding/trying to become less dense so it cna move around and expel the energy its taking on form being ‘hot’/‘excited’. Now there DOES exist a clash in effectiveness - entirely based on how Ace’s powers work - generating too much heat will cause all the oxygen in the air to ‘leave’ and he’ll suffocate himself. On the same token, if the heat is being generated purely from the flames then the flames can burn themselves out if the quantity of oxygen is limited by Caesar. But all in all, Caesar’s effectiveness is limited by who starts what first and how Ace’s powers work. No matter how you look at it, heat - whether coming from Ace or his flames - changes ‘gas’ and ‘oxygen’, so you have to ask yourself, would Caesar be able to maintain control over the super excited gas? Would he be able to stop Ace at all? Hell, lets not forget that Ace is a logia himself and its evident that Caesar is NOT a haki user, what’s to simply stop Ace from slipping out of the ‘area’ that Caesar is trying to control? We don’t know how large of an area Caesar can control the air, we don’t know how hard it is, how fast it is, etc. Luffy is a moderately easy target initially - his fighting style often leaves him standing in the relatively same place the entire time, or for extended durations - so its ‘theoretically’ easy for Caesar to ‘start the process’ and get Luffy. Ace though was straight rushdown.

So naw.

• :bluu:

Caesar is smart enough to come up with fire suppressant techniques like displacing the oxygen in the air by turning into nitrogen or something of the like. Come at me brah.

[stickystaines]

I know it’s been a while since the timeskip happened, but it’s always weird to think that they have spent more time with the people they were with in the timeskip than the actual crew. Like Zoro has known Perona and Mihawk personally longer than Luffy at this point.

[Unreallystic]

His Crew needs to be able to do some boss shit too.
Right now hes got like 2 members who can fuck shit up, 2-3 who can do some damage without going down instantly, 3 who are just there.

That’s sort of where I’m at - like not only would Luffy have to really bawse up to go against the big wigs- but he’d have to be even stronger to support the rest of the team. I give the mcredit of getting better and being of value - but I picture them getting curbstomped by the rosters of the big wigs. Even if it becomes the monster 4 with Jimbei eventually, there is still alot of make up for the ‘drop’ in fighting talent.

• :bluu:

It’s hard to out-lame an Earthquake + several other powers coming at you, especially since Negrobeard could technically destroy entire terrains making keepaway harder. In his current form Luffy could do a decent job at avoiding BB for a while, but Blackbeard isn’t the type to just keel over from even the most brutal attacks, the guy’s a tank. Luffy can take punishment too, but getting quaked a few times will surely put him out of commission. Luffy needs something… more.

It’s hard to imagine how Luffy will get stronger, but seeing guys like Rayleigh and Shanks gives you a hint at how. Developing his Haki to greater heights and learning how to utilize it with his powers more efficiently. Zoro and a few other characters have shown that Haki can create illusions and Sandersonia, Luffy, and a few other characters can create elemental attacks from Haki as well. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the skill than we’ve seen.

Oh, I don’t ‘expect’ Luffy especially as he is now - to be able to beat BB, I just think he’s better equipped to do so than most…just like when he beat Enel.

What I see with Rayleigh and Shanks though, they are also weapon users…and I could NEVER imagine Luffy as a weapon user.

I dunno, we’ve seen the ‘height’ IMO of powers at this point. Between the Admirals, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, the haki use of Garp/Shanks/Rayleigh and so forth…and I can see Luffy ‘clawing’ to get ‘close’…haki being the most important thing, with his DF ability helping him use his haki. But, I struggle to see him taking down Yonkous. Think about it like this. Whitebeard was one of the yonkou and not considered better or stronger than the other 3 (with regards to crew or anything). Now think back to his crew and start to match them up against the Strawhats…and its just unfair. Hell there are only what 7 or 8 strawhats.

I’m just…looking at other series, its usually ‘evident’ ‘how’ someone can get stronger to take that next step…but its not even hinted at anymore here. There is no haki 2.0. The only thing o nthe table is two DFs…which would turn the dud to Super Skrull lol.

• :bluu:

[TimTim]

His Crew needs to be able to do some boss shit too.
Right now hes got like 2 members who can fuck shit up, 2-3 who can do some damage without going down instantly, 3 who are just there.

That’s sort of where I’m at - like not only would Luffy have to really bawse up to go against the big wigs- but he’d have to be even stronger to support the rest of the team. I give the mcredit of getting better and being of value - but I picture them getting curbstomped by the rosters of the big wigs. Even if it becomes the monster 4 with Jimbei eventually, there is still alot of make up for the ‘drop’ in fighting talent.

• :bluu:

It’s hard to out-lame an Earthquake + several other powers coming at you, especially since Negrobeard could technically destroy entire terrains making keepaway harder. In his current form Luffy could do a decent job at avoiding BB for a while, but Blackbeard isn’t the type to just keel over from even the most brutal attacks, the guy’s a tank. Luffy can take punishment too, but getting quaked a few times will surely put him out of commission. Luffy needs something… more.

It’s hard to imagine how Luffy will get stronger, but seeing guys like Rayleigh and Shanks gives you a hint at how. Developing his Haki to greater heights and learning how to utilize it with his powers more efficiently. Zoro and a few other characters have shown that Haki can create illusions and Sandersonia, Luffy, and a few other characters can create elemental attacks from Haki as well. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the skill than we’ve seen.

Oh, I don’t ‘expect’ Luffy especially as he is now - to be able to beat BB, I just think he’s better equipped to do so than most…just like when he beat Enel.

What I see with Rayleigh and Shanks though, they are also weapon users…and I could NEVER imagine Luffy as a weapon user.

I dunno, we’ve seen the ‘height’ IMO of powers at this point. Between the Admirals, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, the haki use of Garp/Shanks/Rayleigh and so forth…and I can see Luffy ‘clawing’ to get ‘close’…haki being the most important thing, with his DF ability helping him use his haki. But, I struggle to see him taking down Yonkous. Think about it like this. Whitebeard was one of the yonkou and not considered better or stronger than the other 3 (with regards to crew or anything). Now think back to his crew and start to match them up against the Strawhats…and its just unfair. Hell there are only what 7 or 8 strawhats.

I’m just…looking at other series, its usually ‘evident’ ‘how’ someone can get stronger to take that next step…but its not even hinted at anymore here. There is no haki 2.0. The only thing o nthe table is two DFs…which would turn the dud to Super Skrull lol.

• :bluu:

LOL at superskrull. He did use Gomu Gomu no Red Hawk where he remembered Ace and lit his arm on fire.
Nobody expected Ichigo to awaken his bankai even farther but he did. Maybe Luffy will awaken some new rubber power or he will be the first to have Haki 2.0. There has something Luffy can do.

[Unreallystic]

His Crew needs to be able to do some boss shit too.
Right now hes got like 2 members who can fuck shit up, 2-3 who can do some damage without going down instantly, 3 who are just there.

That’s sort of where I’m at - like not only would Luffy have to really bawse up to go against the big wigs- but he’d have to be even stronger to support the rest of the team. I give the mcredit of getting better and being of value - but I picture them getting curbstomped by the rosters of the big wigs. Even if it becomes the monster 4 with Jimbei eventually, there is still alot of make up for the ‘drop’ in fighting talent.

• :bluu:

It’s hard to out-lame an Earthquake + several other powers coming at you, especially since Negrobeard could technically destroy entire terrains making keepaway harder. In his current form Luffy could do a decent job at avoiding BB for a while, but Blackbeard isn’t the type to just keel over from even the most brutal attacks, the guy’s a tank. Luffy can take punishment too, but getting quaked a few times will surely put him out of commission. Luffy needs something… more.

It’s hard to imagine how Luffy will get stronger, but seeing guys like Rayleigh and Shanks gives you a hint at how. Developing his Haki to greater heights and learning how to utilize it with his powers more efficiently. Zoro and a few other characters have shown that Haki can create illusions and Sandersonia, Luffy, and a few other characters can create elemental attacks from Haki as well. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the skill than we’ve seen.

Oh, I don’t ‘expect’ Luffy especially as he is now - to be able to beat BB, I just think he’s better equipped to do so than most…just like when he beat Enel.

What I see with Rayleigh and Shanks though, they are also weapon users…and I could NEVER imagine Luffy as a weapon user.

I dunno, we’ve seen the ‘height’ IMO of powers at this point. Between the Admirals, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, the haki use of Garp/Shanks/Rayleigh and so forth…and I can see Luffy ‘clawing’ to get ‘close’…haki being the most important thing, with his DF ability helping him use his haki. But, I struggle to see him taking down Yonkous. Think about it like this. Whitebeard was one of the yonkou and not considered better or stronger than the other 3 (with regards to crew or anything). Now think back to his crew and start to match them up against the Strawhats…and its just unfair. Hell there are only what 7 or 8 strawhats.

I’m just…looking at other series, its usually ‘evident’ ‘how’ someone can get stronger to take that next step…but its not even hinted at anymore here. There is no haki 2.0. The only thing o nthe table is two DFs…which would turn the dud to Super Skrull lol.

• :bluu:

LOL at superskrull. He did use Gomu Gomu no Red Hawk where he remembered Ace and lit his arm on fire.
Nobody expected Ichigo to awaken his bankai even farther but he did. Maybe Luffy will awaken some new rubber power or he will be the first to have Haki 2.0. There has something Luffy can do.

No, with Ichigo it was “oh they have bankais, he’ll get one, but he’s got like two people inside of him…”
“oh the other person is leading to a mask”
“oh the mask is like a hollow”
"Oh the hollow is a Hulk rage beast, eventually Ichigo’s going to get that power and control it right"
and so forth and so forth…there was an obvious progression, no you don’t see everything from the begining - but each step, you can see the following step. Who read Naruto and didn’t think he’d befriend the 9t? Who read Claymore and never thought the main chick would ‘not’ learn to awaken?

Where we are in OP, leading up to the break, it was obvious that Luffy was going to learn/pick up haki…and be damn good at it. He’s lived up to billing, but we haven’t seen anything or been hinted at anything beyond the ‘possibility’ of using two fruits…but as has been discussed, it doesn’t even seem like something Luffy would do on purpose. So you kinda think about his eventual fight with Sakazuki - he doesn’t stand a CHANCE as he is right now. It’s just a hard counter pick, his haki won’t be enough. The only option would be Ace’s ability. (I’m sorry I keep picturing haki fist of flames and its so SuperSkrull). I mean the only thing going for him would be to actually NOT fight him…I could see the eventual direction being Revolutionaries against the World Gov’t, and Kuzan going against Sakzuki again…but just as it stands - how can Luffy get strong enough to win the fights he has ahead of him?

• :bluu:

[TimTim]

His Crew needs to be able to do some boss shit too.
Right now hes got like 2 members who can fuck shit up, 2-3 who can do some damage without going down instantly, 3 who are just there.

That’s sort of where I’m at - like not only would Luffy have to really bawse up to go against the big wigs- but he’d have to be even stronger to support the rest of the team. I give the mcredit of getting better and being of value - but I picture them getting curbstomped by the rosters of the big wigs. Even if it becomes the monster 4 with Jimbei eventually, there is still alot of make up for the ‘drop’ in fighting talent.

• :bluu:

It’s hard to out-lame an Earthquake + several other powers coming at you, especially since Negrobeard could technically destroy entire terrains making keepaway harder. In his current form Luffy could do a decent job at avoiding BB for a while, but Blackbeard isn’t the type to just keel over from even the most brutal attacks, the guy’s a tank. Luffy can take punishment too, but getting quaked a few times will surely put him out of commission. Luffy needs something… more.

It’s hard to imagine how Luffy will get stronger, but seeing guys like Rayleigh and Shanks gives you a hint at how. Developing his Haki to greater heights and learning how to utilize it with his powers more efficiently. Zoro and a few other characters have shown that Haki can create illusions and Sandersonia, Luffy, and a few other characters can create elemental attacks from Haki as well. I’m sure there’s a lot more to the skill than we’ve seen.

Oh, I don’t ‘expect’ Luffy especially as he is now - to be able to beat BB, I just think he’s better equipped to do so than most…just like when he beat Enel.

What I see with Rayleigh and Shanks though, they are also weapon users…and I could NEVER imagine Luffy as a weapon user.

I dunno, we’ve seen the ‘height’ IMO of powers at this point. Between the Admirals, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, the haki use of Garp/Shanks/Rayleigh and so forth…and I can see Luffy ‘clawing’ to get ‘close’…haki being the most important thing, with his DF ability helping him use his haki. But, I struggle to see him taking down Yonkous. Think about it like this. Whitebeard was one of the yonkou and not considered better or stronger than the other 3 (with regards to crew or anything). Now think back to his crew and start to match them up against the Strawhats…and its just unfair. Hell there are only what 7 or 8 strawhats.

I’m just…looking at other series, its usually ‘evident’ ‘how’ someone can get stronger to take that next step…but its not even hinted at anymore here. There is no haki 2.0. The only thing o nthe table is two DFs…which would turn the dud to Super Skrull lol.

• :bluu:

LOL at superskrull. He did use Gomu Gomu no Red Hawk where he remembered Ace and lit his arm on fire.
Nobody expected Ichigo to awaken his bankai even farther but he did. Maybe Luffy will awaken some new rubber power or he will be the first to have Haki 2.0. There has something Luffy can do.

No, with Ichigo it was “oh they have bankais, he’ll get one, but he’s got like two people inside of him…”
“oh the other person is leading to a mask”
“oh the mask is like a hollow”
"Oh the hollow is a Hulk rage beast, eventually Ichigo’s going to get that power and control it right"
and so forth and so forth…there was an obvious progression, no you don’t see everything from the begining - but each step, you can see the following step. Who read Naruto and didn’t think he’d befriend the 9t? Who read Claymore and never thought the main chick would ‘not’ learn to awaken?

Where we are in OP, leading up to the break, it was obvious that Luffy was going to learn/pick up haki…and be damn good at it. He’s lived up to billing, but we haven’t seen anything or been hinted at anything beyond the ‘possibility’ of using two fruits…but as has been discussed, it doesn’t even seem like something Luffy would do on purpose. So you kinda think about his eventual fight with Sakazuki - he doesn’t stand a CHANCE as he is right now. It’s just a hard counter pick, his haki won’t be enough. The only option would be Ace’s ability. (I’m sorry I keep picturing haki fist of flames and its so SuperSkrull). I mean the only thing going for him would be to actually NOT fight him…I could see the eventual direction being Revolutionaries against the World Gov’t, and Kuzan going against Sakzuki again…but just as it stands - how can Luffy get strong enough to win the fights he has ahead of him?

• :bluu:

Once we discovered Bankai’s I thought that would be Ichigo’s final form but look at all the new shit that happened to him. Maybe his hollow form and then like wtf.
Pre-time skip I expected Naruto to control the 9 tails but never learn sage mode.
Although we always expected a bunch of super saiyans I never expected Gogeta or Vegeto.

[Wellman]

I know it’s been a while since the timeskip happened, but it’s always weird to think that they have spent more time with the people they were with in the timeskip than the actual crew. Like Zoro has known Perona and Mihawk personally longer than Luffy at this point.

Comic book time aka fictional characters can’t age on screen because it might affect the demographic pull.