Man, I tried to read the Mangapanda stuff but one look at the font and I can’t subject myself to that. It reminded me of the days a brother dealt with reading ones done on live.com and I just can’t bring myself to trust it.
Actually Whitebeard was making him the king, while Ace thought he was going to make Whitebeard king. Ace became obsessed with revenge on Blackbeard and chased him against Whitebeard’s advice and got them both killed.
Its sad man.
But Oda clearly showed the consequences of pride, without shoving it in the readers face. I don’t think anyone outside of ace really saw it as his fault.
Ace was a slacker plain and simple. The dude had the genes of the greatest pirate EVER and he pissed all that unlimited potential away once he got his devil fruit power and joined WB’s crew.
Ace should have been splitting mountains in half with his armament haki while knocking out Vice Admirals 30 miles away with the Conqueror’s haki. What a fucking waste. I never thought that he was responsible for WB and a whole bunch of other pirates getting killed as well… what an asshole.
He did it. He went and showed off his DF. Lucy is the first person in the series to have the same DF as someone else.
Woah there.
Ace was not a “slacker”, his priorities changed. Remember how Ace was before he joined Whitebeard? Reckless, full of dreams, persistent, etc. He had a crew, was offered a Shichibukai position because of his rise in fame (to which he declined). He fought Jinbe for 5 straight days, after which he immediately went ahead to attack Whitebeard. He persistently tried to attack/defeat Whitebeard as well while he was on his ship. Even as a kid he had immense physical strength and was even able to use conquerors haki (not intentionally, of course).
I truly believe that things began to change on the day that he had that “talk” with Marco wherein Marco explained that the Whitebeard pirates were like a family and that Whitebeard was a father figure. Ace longed for a real father, he longed for a place wherein he belonged. He sorta became like Whitebeard, someone who didn’t care about fame/treasure and merely wanted a family. He gave up his dreams of becoming the pirate king, and instead decided to help make his father (Whitebeard) the pirate king. Ironically, they both shared this same sentiment towards each other.
Remember what Ace asked Garp when he was a kid? “Was it good that I was born?” Ace had found his answer, and as a result he was seen smiling during his death. He was happy. He did not regret the way that he lived.
Ace wanted to be loved. He wanted to belong somewhere. He decided that those things were more important than becoming a famous pirate. What’s so wrong with that? Who are we to say that he should have done something else with his life?
Who are we to question his resolve?!?!
Caesar would murder Ace
-Can’t outrun ceaser.
-No Haki to tell where Caesar’s gas attacks will come from
-Cant hit him.
-No DF Powers
It would be just like when he realized he couldn’t beat Blackbeard, but his best attack would be to bum rush Caesar instead of creating a sun.
I said about 10 pages ago the only reason Ace had a 500m+ bounty is because of his position and being a logia user. He’s no better than Swamp dude.
I can because I didnt end up causing a war because I wanted to bring Pirate Justice to the Pimp of the Seas.
I just realized you’re right about the Caesar thing but he did have Haki. He had conquerors Haki but never used it since he didn’t need it. Then again Blackbeard, Ace, and Akainu are like some of the only 10-0 matchups I see for him. He still is immensely powerful because of his physical strength and I doubt that 500m bounty is only because of his position and him being a logia.
Ugh, I don’t agree with this. The density and strength of Caesar’s abilities would be directly affected by Ace’s DF ability. Where there is fire, there is heat, and heat causes ‘phase shifting’ in gasses. So while its easy to say ‘in a vacuum, Ace’s powers won’t work’ - the irony is that goes both ways - it’s very possible that Ace’s powers would exhaust and dissipate the strength of Caesar’s abilities. Another way to think of it, Caesar is wolverine to Ace - if he can land that first hit on opening 50/50 mix-up - then he can win, but on the flip, once Ace ‘starts’ - Caesar wouldn’t be able to stop him.
On top of that, there is too much we don’t know about how Ace’s power worked. Did he generate actual flame as a logia? Or was it more flames driven by heat? Both have different effects - if he himself generates flames, then Caesar can’t simply ‘extinguish’ them. If he’s generating heat, that’s even worse for Caesar.
Also, when was it stated that Ace didn’t know haki? I thought it was to the contrary to that - he had Conc Haki. He may not be Lucy tier, but even the way he moved - for instance upon meeting the Strawhats in the Ocean, reeks of someone with some level of observation. Again, it may not have been developed, but lets take this to another tier. When fighting ‘broken’-beard - he pretty much was sonning them ninjas like father’s day, ALL OF THEM…Ace knows HOW to fight, he isn’t some push-over from position…that fighting experience is part of how Luffy was able to beat Caesar - and while if you want to say Luffy is stronger than Ace ‘now’ - I won’t fight you on that point - there still isn’t some mystical ‘mile’ between them.
- :bluu:
He generates flames and no matter how long he generated them as long as he’s within the oxygen draining range the flames would automatically die as soon as he covers himself in them. Then again maybe Ace uses fluorine gas which Caesar could also get rid of.
Also how could the heat produced from Ace’s flames cause a phase change?
Your first paragraph has a lot of flaws in it, same with the second, in the third I 100% agree.
Fire causes a chemical reaction…technically a form of rusting…
Phase shifting is based on a combination of pressure and temperature…if the temperature is increased, the element can either change phase states from solid/liquid/gas, or it will change another aspect such as the pressure. With enough heat - the gas would lose density (since we aren’t technically changing the phase itself) - less density would mean that in essence, Caesar would have less control and less impact. It’s why if you leave the top on something that you put in the microwave, you have pressure from moisture turning to gas and and the actual air inside expanding/trying to become less dense so it cna move around and expel the energy its taking on form being ‘hot’/‘excited’. Now there DOES exist a clash in effectiveness - entirely based on how Ace’s powers work - generating too much heat will cause all the oxygen in the air to ‘leave’ and he’ll suffocate himself. On the same token, if the heat is being generated purely from the flames then the flames can burn themselves out if the quantity of oxygen is limited by Caesar. But all in all, Caesar’s effectiveness is limited by who starts what first and how Ace’s powers work. No matter how you look at it, heat - whether coming from Ace or his flames - changes ‘gas’ and ‘oxygen’, so you have to ask yourself, would Caesar be able to maintain control over the super excited gas? Would he be able to stop Ace at all? Hell, lets not forget that Ace is a logia himself and its evident that Caesar is NOT a haki user, what’s to simply stop Ace from slipping out of the ‘area’ that Caesar is trying to control? We don’t know how large of an area Caesar can control the air, we don’t know how hard it is, how fast it is, etc. Luffy is a moderately easy target initially - his fighting style often leaves him standing in the relatively same place the entire time, or for extended durations - so its ‘theoretically’ easy for Caesar to ‘start the process’ and get Luffy. Ace though was straight rushdown.
So naw.
- :bluu:
OOOOH! A 900 year backstory. Maybe this ties into why Doflamingo is in Dressrosa in the first place. Void Century shizz!
Zoro’s bloodlust is one of the reasons why he’s such a badass. I wish he also was in the tournament.
Law seems to be at the end of his rope, I hope Oda makes a more detailed scene of this fight so I can see how their individual abilities interact.
Doflamingo may have assembled a tournament filled with killers,but I’m actually surprised at how much he underestimates Luffy. Doflamingo is looking like just a stronger, more resourceful Crocodile at this point. Never underestimate a D.
I was just getting to this. Logia powers always have had secondary effects to them, and the principles of heat are intrinsic with heat, hence one of the reasons why Akainu could harm Ace.
Keep in mind Ace was very strong even before the fruit and although he never displayed Haki outright other than CoC, considering that he one of the Whitebeard commanders (like Jozu, Marco, and Vista) I’m sure he capable of it. Same way we pretty much knew Garp had Armaments Haki but never explicitly showed it until he punched Phoenix-form Marco in the grill. (although you could say hurting Luffy was also evidence.)
I’m conflicted, I wish I could both agree and like this post.
This was the main point all along. He was never trying to become the greatest pirate, he was just looking for a sense of belonging, and he found out just how much value his life had when his comrades and brother came to rescue him.
http://i25.mangapanda.com/one-piece/441/one-piece-1693521.jpg
It’s a shame we didn’t get to see Ace fight more…
- :bluu:
Because Ace just had to go after The Pimp.
What’s pluckin my nerve endings though - Luffy verse Enel is how I see Luffy verse Blackbeard going. As it stands - Luffy’s DF power would translate well to hurting BB - and the added haki makes it an even better match-up. No parts of me feel its an impossible battle. I just don’t see Luffy and Co as a crew besting BB’s crew…yeah the Monster Trio would get theirs, but the drop off is HARSH.
I could go for a reprise of Enel in the New World…he just seems ripe for Warlord position strength wise.
- :bluu:
Yeah. I had hoped that Doflamingo would be different. Especially since he warned Monet and Caesar about Luffy while they were on Punk Hazard.
Oh well, it’ll be his loss. As you said, never underestimate a D.
Exactly.
Can’t believe some of these anti-Ace posts that are being made.
Well, Oda did say that if Enel was actually wanted he could potentially have a bounty of 500,000,000.
Strength-wise I could see him as a warlord. But I don’t believe that he’s the type of guy who want to be under someone else’s wing (the World Government).
Yes he did. When Luffy used conquerors haki to save him at Marineford he said “You too?” suggesting that he did in-fact know of his ability to use conquerors haki and he was slightly surprised that Luffy could use it as well.
Oh alright I took Ap Chem and AP Physics not too long ago and I don’t think Phase Shifting is the phrase you’re looking for. That has to do with waves. I think you mean phase transitioning/change. Do a simple google search (I always try to double check my arguments) you’ll see.
But moving on
-I don’t see where you’re getting the iron for the rust.
“With enough heat - the gas would lose density (since we aren’t technically changing the phase itself) - less density would mean that in essence, Caesar would have less control and less impact.”
-This argument is flawed because as you said we don’t know how Caesar’s ability works. As density lowers the oxygen molecules move farther apart but that does nothing to Caesars area of effectiveness it’s a certain range.
- He just removes oxygen from an area being the area in his vicinity so Ace’s far ranged attacks would not work he would have to attack head on which Caesar can just doge being a Logia forcing him to be in the oxygenless area and with no real evidence of him using Haki he couldn’t hurt Caesar anyway.
-Anyway how would Ace slip away? He would need to transform himself into flames and they would just disappear.
So naw. - :bluu:
You’re trying to involve too much logic into one piece. You should just accept that it’s a 10-0.
It’s easier just to think of what attacks Ace would use and how Caesar would respond. Every move from ace has an answer.
OP is actually one of hte more logical series, which is the only reason it’s worth thinking about it.
I guess it’s the ‘Strider’ from MvC2 argument. If played perfectly, without execution error, he was essentially unbeatable. But he had to play perfectly for that, without any errors. The reality of the shake down though was there were a few people good with him, one person great with him, and the guy who was great with him, still lost…there were other characters looked upon as better.
If Caeser played a perfect game, no Ace doesn’t ‘win’, but Caeser won’t play that game. He’s NOT optimized. He’s NOT trained as a fighter. Luffy beat the SHIT out of him once he got past his parlor trick. It wasn’t even close…it was like Luffy vs Hodi again, and left us all like “when is Luffy going to fight someone on his level”…Luffy losing to him twice if I recall was completely forgotten. Let’s be real about some things. Ace is pretty familiar with the ‘New world’. As a seat on Whitebeard’s ship(s) - he’s fought logias before. As someone who has Conc Haki, it should be expected that he can hit Caeser. Caesar only has ONE thing going for him in the fight, and that’s something that “we” don’t know how effective he is with it. Someone can pick Strider/Doom, and they may be great at locking down Cable teams, but what about more mobile characters or people who know what hte strength of the power is? It’s a whole different game at that point. “We” don’t know the range. “We” have no concept as to the difficulty Caeser has to do it. “We” have no clue how adept Caeser is in general to controlling things beyond ‘his mass’. The safe money is on its not easy, otherwise people would drop like flies around him. That means htere’s an execution window that has to be mastered (something I doubt he’s done as a non-fighter)…so no, I don’t think and have a REAL hard time believing that he can just shut shit down on people. Again, the people he did it against weren’t some uber rush down type. Like Spiral vs Mags…its one thing to chuck swords full screen, its a whole nother with Mags tri-jumping that ass with a psylocke assist.
So if you want to play mmaxed out theory fight - go for it. The laser Admiral is GOAT. Luffy should have lost almost every fight he’s been in. Miihawk is selling himself short. etc…
But if you want to talk, if they met at your crib for a first to ten, what would happen? Naw. Caeser would win the first fight due to ignorance…than Ace would pretty much run the score up on’em and walk away with the word ‘Fraud’ - plastered on Caeser’s nose.
- :bluu: