IMO Crocodile’s Suna Suna no Mi is the weakest, considering the fact that he’s a pirate his weakness is so overbearingly devastating in the long run. If it wasn’t for his cunning Crocodile couldn’t have made it to Shichibukai on his fruit alone.
That is pending, but it seems like this might be the case where a really good fruit is in the possession of a crappy pirate.
I didn’t mean it in that context, more like Ener is back with his antics and gets clobbered by Luffy for being in the way.
No, that is indeed what I want to do.
WOOT! NEW SURPRISE PIECE!!! :woot:
reads chapter
:sad:
Man Fisher Tiger’s story is a depressing one, he sounds like a prison gang leader who’s just admitted to being raped when he was “fresh meat.”
It’s so grimey how everything went down, and to make matters worse his resolve was torn asunder once he realized the betrayal of the townsfolk.
Personally the most depressing part of this chapter was not seeing the full might of Fisher, everything went down so fast…
(Borsalino still looks like a private eye to me, especially with the smoking finger.)
Wow. Hunh. Beyond the whole necessity of Tiger dying, I actually didn’t see this situation coming up at all, including the whole “slave” thing. I have to wonder, if Tiger acknowledged that there were some kind humans (in the new generation) AND was the person to refused his own transfusion, then who spread the lie that humans denied him transfusion that Hodi and the other believe? I’m kind of guessing it was Arlong, but if Jinbei was over him…
I rather liked Aladdin’s design.
I’m going to guess this an early chapter rather than a late one, meaning there isn’t going to be one this upcoming week since this is it.
Oh, stop bitching. We KNEW he was going to die the entire time. Kinda of the entire point of the flashback.
Now all we have to do is wait to find out how Otohime died. Wonder if Arlong had anything to do with it…
Sho2, c’mon man, he died to BULLETS. When have bullets been useful in one piece, EVER. His weaker brother ran through an entire battle of marines firing every sort of bullet and didn’t get hit at all.
You are telling me a group of foddler marines can surround the baddest fishman of all, with guns, and kill him?
Ace, ACE, couldn’t beat Jinbei ON LAND, for 3 DAYS. He was a man MADE OF FIRE.
If you are going to kill Fisher Tiger and do the stupid “The Humans Betrayed him!” thing we all could see coming, you do it BIG. If he fought all vice admirals to a standstill and then was mortally wounded by Kizaru, that would have been perfect.
But no, he lost to gun shots. Then he dies because he doesn’t want their blood? Man, if you hate humans THAT much and then even you can come to terms that future humans won’t be prejudice against your race, you take that blood to see that future happen.
Not just lay there and die like a bitch, AFTER ALL THAT.
It’s not like the blood would make him prejudice or not be able to breathe underwater.
It is bad writing. If the blood was like Tenryubito blood, okay, I get it, he doesn’t want their dirty blood. But just generic human blood of his type? Man everyone is a slaver, those long arms were slavers.
What is the most annoying thing is that like the smartest person I internet talk to will be like “This was a great chapter, I don’t ever want to read fables, I love Oda, wakka flakka flame”
I agree that Fisher going down to bullets (which are like BB gun ammunition to strong people in One Piece) was kind of a letdown, but you also have to realize that Fisher Tiger’s resolve aka ambition aka DREAM was dead before any bullets touched him. That alone made him vulnerable and subject to death. We know based on his status that he could’ve easily dodged all those bullets and mercilessly slaughtered all those fodder Marines, but considering the scope of what happened he just didn’t have it in him anymore.
The second part of your post reflects the fact that he had no more will to survive. He was satisfied with dying and letting the new era of human/fishman relations either blossom as he had dreamed or fade away into oblivion. He was simply tired…
No way, the people of the town did that to him, not the kid. If the kid was somehow responsible directly for him dying, then him just taking bullets to the face is good writing.
The people betraying him, that’s fine, but the way he died because of that? Man he fell down some damn stairs.
What the fuck was this bullshit. The realest nigga in one piece gets murked by bullets. What the fuck oda. This nigga leveled mariejoas muther fucking mariejoas this nigga was a fearsome pirate .this nigga was fisher tiger. Get the fuck outta here with this bullshit. Yo set sail to wano this chapter is getting rewritting
On some serious shit. This dude stomped a rear admiral out with one kick . You mean to tell me he can’t take a barrage of bullets.GTFO.Dude probably got shot the fuck up on Mariejoas and got all sorts of mistreatment.I mean god Oda did he really have to go out like that.I find this odd in one piece Strong ass dudes like Norland and Calgara lose in the most ridiculous ways like wtf dude c’mon .Norland who got stuck between gigantic slabs of earth and a giant snake simply gets beheaded.GTFO. I just can’t believe the strongest Fishman we have seen this far lost to bullets.After his second in command goes to toe with Gecko Moria,Akainu,Ace and various other folks and survived.Its just some bullshit. Chapter was not good.Waste of build up
Sigh. My defending the chapter hardly has anything to do with me thinking that Oda is perfect since I’ve said before that I don’t think he is. I don’t have to think that Oda is perfect to disagree with you, especially when you posted something as nebulous as what you originally posted.
First things first, though.
I’m going to have to disagree here. Pretty much every Devil Fruit user is fucked if they fall towards the ocean outside of maybe Aokiji, so I don’t know what you’re getting outside of maybe torrential downpours/storms being worse for him. That may be true. Even then, though, it won’t shut off his powers. Just make him stick together, so…?
His Logia has the most versatility of any Logia outside of maybe Blackbeard’s and Blackbeard can’t turn into his element or else, like Magellan, he’d be even more broken. Additionally, like Blackbeard, thus far, his is the only Logia (that can turn into an element) that we know can actually counteracts its weakness entirely due to his dehydration weakness. Granted, we only really know weaknesses of three Logia at present: Suna Suna no Mi being weak to liquids, Goro Goro no Mi being weak to rubber and Mera Mera no Mi being weak to magma/hotter elements (and trying with smoke and ice).
So, yeah, I’m not sure how Mera Mera no Mi beats it outside of raw destructive power and that’s only outside of desert areas, which Crocodile provided he can basically turn any piece of land into.
Perhaps. The only thing that I can think of that I’m not seeing about it is that like Suna Suna No Mi, it might be the one of the seemingly few Logia that can actively manipulate a similar area, though I doubt that Fishman Island even has swamps, so…
Hell, the more I think about it, the more I think that Numa Numa no Mi might be the only Logia that’s utterly incapable of flight. Then again, couldn’t Akainu fly? I can’t recall if Aokiji ever did…
Ah, I suspected as much, but that…seems like a waste, especially since giving the Goro Goro no Mi to someone more competent wouldn’t be automatically broken now…
But, yeah, I can’t really picture what the hell Enel would actually do at this point that would be useful to the story, which is why I was wondering given Oda’s tendency for callbacks and brick jokes.
Ah, good. Nice to know my memory isn’t horribly bad.
Whoever said that Fisher was stronger than Jinbei, especially Jinbei 15 years later? No one. Most people just seem to have kinda of assumed this.
From we’ve seen, the World Nobles are extremely weak and coddled. The only reason they don’t seem to get horribly raped by pirates is because they have the backing of World Government and the Marine and have carte blanche to what they want. It’s not like we were ever told that Fisher Tiger fought the Marines as he escaped the nobles; just that he burned their shit to the ground and bounced with all their slaves. If we had been told that he fought multiple level higher-ups AND escaped, then, yes, him dying to the mooks thing and a hitherto little seen admiral would seem extra weird.
Also, haven’t bullets killed at least a couple of people in flashbacks? Regardless, regular bullets finished off Whitebeard. Yes, there was a ridiculous amount of other shit he got hit with, including Meigo, but regular bullets have always been dangerous–it’s just that people rarely get hit with them. Said people still have to actively defend against them, though. Crocodile would still get fucked up and possibly die if his Logia defenses fucked up or he got shot in a wet spot.
I mean, yeah, it’s kind of lame for him to get killed by a bunch of mook, but you seem to be failing to realize that they basically unloaded him with everything he had and he was still standing long for him to beat their asses and get rescued. I was actually expecting him to just fall over and die to a few amount of bullets defending Koala or getting shot over a misunderstanding given the way we told that he actually supposedly died. So this way he died is better than I was expecting, even if it wasn’t exactly “epic”.
Then again, when have flashback deaths ever been “epic”? “Epic” is overrated.
Yes.
Again, I feel that’s more because Ace was unfortunately overhyped and that people are automatically assuming that just because he was the leader, that Fisher Tiger is somehow automatically stronger than Jinbei, even Jinbei 15-years later.
That would have been ridiculous, especially since it’s not like the Vice Admirals would have let him get away long enough for him to die of blood loss. Besides, Borsalino isn’t even Kizaru at this point; apparently he already has the Pika Pika no Mi at this point, though. All the Vice Admirals at this point are completely different people from the present-day three.
Also, please make up your mind. First you complain about the need for a flashback. Then you complain that the flashback is essentially going along as quick as it can because you want it slow down just so that Tiger can die some needlessly grandiose death.
It was a Marine ship. You really think that he’d want Marine blood with them backing the Tenryubito and just being the people who shot the fuck out of him? Yeah…I don’t see how that’s bad writing, especially when Fisher Tiger pretty much explicitly said that he didn’t trust himself to see towards making the world he believed could exist since he knew that he would never be able to forgive the very humans he wanted his race to make peace with.
Sometimes, one’s perfect world doesn’t have room for that person in it.
The hell does Fables have to do with this? They’re two completely different things and I don’t see how reading a Japanese comic is mutually exclusive to reading an American one.
Like I said before, I don’t think Oda’s perfect and I can understand that you think that Tiger’s death was apparently underdone, but a lot of the time it seems like you’re being a nebulous and contrary as possible just to be different. I understand wanting to see action and even tiring of us praising Oda, but you keep acting like we praise with actually discussing anything or disagreeing on anything.
Do I think that Oda could have handled Fisher Tiger’s death a bit better? Yes.
Do I think that way he did it is ultimately fine given the constant themes of people beating the impossible because of their dreams considering that Fisher Tiger’s dreams just got crushed? Yes.
His weakness is liquids, liquids are very very common. It’s not like he needs to be drenched, and opponent can be wet and make contact with him that way, that’s not very hard to do if you’re an above-average fighter. Luffy already countered him with ease a second time at the War when Croc was trying to sneak attack Whitebeard using the same tactic.
Secondly, his advantages are mostly due to where he was, the desert. This is why Croc’s real strength was his cunning, he took control of a place that was to his advantage. Ace’s fruit gives his true permeability and great offensive power at the same time. His counters aren’t common and his offense can overcome most things by the sheer power of his element. Crocodile has made great strides with his fruit, but it’s not anywhere as complete as Ace’s in terms of raw use.
I mean, do we think this guy is supposed to be bullet proof? Bullets do damage. You got guys like Ben Beckman stopping Kizaru dead in his tracks with a pistol. Tiger obviously has no Logia, so he’s going to take those bullets to the flesh. The fact that he was still standing after being shot up by such a big firing squad is testament enough to his strength.
Could he have avoided the barrage of bullets and slaughtered them all before it went down? Probably, but if we have been paying any attention at all to the past few issues we know that he was pretty adamant about not killing ANYONE. There was no way he was getting out of that without killing the lot of them. He was resigned to his death the moment they ambushed him, and he went down as a hero instead of a mass murderer who slaughtered a whole crew of Marines.
And the comparison with Jinbei isn’t really logical either. Jinbei didn’t have whole squads of marines with their guns trained only on him during the war. Jinbei wasn’t at the top of the priority list at Marine HQ. He was going to be a lower priority target than Whitebeard, Ace, Luffy, or even Marco. I’d imagine the gap between Tiger and Jinbei was probably about the same as the gap between Luffy and Zoro, and Jinbei is still alive and getting stronger a decade later. He’s most likely surpassed Tiger long ago.
In one piece bullets have never ever been a factor unless you are a regular human. Only time bullets are a threat is if they are fired by true snipers and sharpshooters.I mean c’mon now this dude was talked about being one of the baddest dudes around.He ransacked and freed slaves and evaded capture of bounty hunters and Marines.Oda could have easily turned it into battle between him and some vice admirals .I mean if he can kick a Rear Admiral and Knock him out he definitely has to be able to take on some fodder and win.
Bullets have been a factor lol. Just because Luffy can bounce them, Logia’s can ignore them, and some swordsman can deflect them doesn’t mean they are not a factor for the rest of the world. Hacci took a bullet at the auction house and sure as hell felt it. If bullets were never a factor in one piece there would have been maybe 10 casualties total in the War at MarineHQ.
I agree with you that he could have curb stomped the whole lot of them, because apparently he did even after getting shot up, since he managed to get back to his crew and not get thrown in Impel Down or executed on the spot. They got the drop on him though, and he took it up the tailpipe. It happens.
We can be mad about it just because everybody wanted to see him in some big epic fight, and call it bad writing because it didn’t happen how we wanted it to, but it’s starting to sound like we want every character to be like Godverine in Marvel now.
If we are going to have to have a flashback, do it right.
Don’t just rush through the part that is the thing we all want to see.
So not only did we get saddled with a Flashback, it was a bad one. Of course it’s all free so it doesn’t matter, but its disappointing.
And Fisher Tiger was the baddest of the bad fishmen, I don’t care about Fifteen years later, does it really matter fifteen years later if you aren’t the main character?
Whitebeard died to bullets after having everything in the marines arsenal thrown at him and being ridiculously old.
I think I need to just take a manga break. Manga is making me crazy.
(I suppose I shall concede the Suna Suna no Mi versus Mera Mera no Mi for now since you’ve some points, even if I can’t bring myself to ultimately agree just yet.)
Sigh. I never thought that we’d be discussing whether or not bullets are dangerous just because mooks tend to either not be able to hit the broadside of a barn or end mostly hitting people who don’t really give a damn about dodging like Luffy or Logia.
I’m more tempted than ever to go over to Arlong Park to see reaction to this particular chapter, especially since I remember quite a few people on there bitching about Ace’s death and saying that it was poorly done. I swear, people are so fucking spoiled…
Pfft. What’s “right”? A big end fight even though pretty much no flashback in One Piece has ever had one of those?
Also, speak for yourself. I’ve always been more interested in how Otohime died.
See. This is what I’m still not understanding: Why are you complaining about the flashback so much if it’s almost already over when your way would take longer? I mean, “saddled”? How the hell we getting “saddled” with a flashback when we’re being shown things that happened rather than doing what a lot of other (manga) authors do–coughKubocough–and just having a shit-ton of exposition?
He’s the most infamous. No one ever confirmed that he was the strongest, even at the time.
Also, what an inane question. Other characters besides Luffy improve all the time between gaps of time. This isn’t other manga where it’s pretty much only the main character who sees any actual improvement.
You’re honestly trying to argue that it doesn’t matter how much Jinbei could have possibly improved over the course of a decade and a half just because he’s not the main character? What.
He still ultimately died to bullets and I admitted that he had a shit load of other things done to him. If he hadn’t died to bullets, then Blackbeard would be dead by now. Akainu too.
Yes, that would seem for the best. It’s not like it’s going to go anywhere.
They finally get us back to the real strawhats adventure and then throw a flashback at us. The flashback is a hastily thrown together allegory to racism and then doesn’t show the big moment that I wanted to see.
Finally we haven’t really learned much and it was drawn out over 3, maybe 4 chapters already. It could have been done in one chapter.
Who cares about how much Jinbei improves, in this current moment Fisher Tiger is the strongest fishman on a crew full of fishman that is rollicking about int he new world and can’t be captured by the marines. If you want to get even more picky, why are Arlong and Hacchi even able to fight people in the new world?
After having had the new world hyped up to this impossible power standard we see two pipsqueeks that were beaten in one of the first sagas on a crew that is going about in the strongest ocean on the planet? That is stupid. How does this justify your 15 years later fascination you keep throwing out.
Arlong and Hacchi should’ve mauled Luffy and Zoro in that regard. I guess they were busy unlearning everything they learned while on the Sun Pirates crew. Or maybe it does make sense because 15 years ago everyone was weak seeing how the marines couldn’t even catch a crew where Hacchi and Arlong were high ranking members.
Maybe the great age of pirates wasn’t what Oda has been hyping it up to be. I guess that is One Piece.
Oda could learn a thing or two from Kubo when it comes to doing a great flashback. Turn back the pendulum answered about 30 billion questions. So far we’ve learned Fisher Tiger is a wuss, the goldfish is a crybaby, and fishmen are weak whiners.
We didn’t even get to see him do any fishman karate.
Through out the rest of teh story bullets won’t be able to hit anyone, even Nami or Chopper.
(For the record, I don’t want to clog up the thread with this, so if you want to respond to this VS, then you can have the last word. It’s only fair.)
Hunh. I didn’t notice those three even though I was staring right at that (goofy) picture for quite a while. I guess Django’s heart-shaped eyes were still in the process of forever mentally scarring me.
…Yet you then type up your longest post so far even though you’re well aware that I’m fine with agreeing to disagree. 'Kay.
Since when is having a civil discussion “arguing”? (Or, at least, having the negative connotations that “argue” has?) I’m not calling you an idiot or anything; just saying that I find your position really weird considering you feel it extra-strongly for this chapter and you have an admitted tendency to complain about non-action-y chapters anyway.
Emphasis mine since I think that’s the real reason you’re disappointed rather it than it out and out being “bad writing”.
Also, how the hell is it a “hastily thrown together allegory about racism” when we’ve known about humanity generally being “racist” towards Fishman for over 100 chapters?
I’m curious to how you would have condensed them into one chapter, honestly. I’m not even saying that rhetorically because I can it see condensed to maybe two chapters. But one chapter? Really? Without losing anything about Otohime?
All the ships and people that we saw them attacking and being attacked by were general mooks that weren’t even named and it’s not like they’re that far into the Grand Line as far as we can tell. Granted, I’ll admit that the Arlong and Hacchi thing is weird–I’ve admittedly been weirded out about the severe power difference between Arlong & Hacchi and Jinbei ever since learning about the connection and seeing Jinbei in action.
Still, it’s not like they were going around fighting any named characters, much less any named strong characters. Hell, the strongest named character to show up in this flashback who hasn’t been a fishman besides Borsalino, who appears to have fucking raped Arlong Dr. Light style, is Strawberry. Strawberry. Did you remember who the hell Strawberry was before semijuggalo linked to the Wiki? Even if you did, it’s not like we’ve ever really see him do much, so…
[quote=“ViciousSLASH, post:2055, topic:111823”]
After having had the new world hyped up to this impossible power standard we see two pipsqueeks that were beaten in one of the first sagas on a crew that is going about in the strongest ocean on the planet? That is stupid. How does this justify your 15 years later fascination you keep throwing out.
[/quoted]
Because I never said anything about Arlong and Hacchi and, above, I was implying that I didn’t because I’m admittedly still weirded out by that.
Also, it’s not like people can’t get weaker over time as well as seen with Whitebeard, which is why your seeming declaration that no one can actually change except for the main character is so bizarre.
Again, I have no good, definitive answer for this and again, it’s why I was pointing to Jinbei, who you pointed out first with the Ace thing, when I talked about getting more powerful.
For what it’s worth, though, it does seem that Arlong and Hacchi probably did slack off somewhat significantly after they took over Nami’s island and they were there for like, what, half a decade? Still weird though, I’ll admit.
Yeah, everything tends to eventually suffer from being “overhyped”, which is personally why I don’t get hyped for anything.
Meh. Kubo answered questions while immediately raising more to point where I’d argue that as informative as Turn Back the Pendulum was, for the most part it was just filler fan-service about things that we could already guess that he has yet to actually close out for the most part. Then again, it’s been forever since I’ve actually cared about Bleach, so maybe he did finishing up on all the unfinished questions with regards to the Vizard.
Also, you’re acting like Oda’s other flashbacks haven’t answered things. You seem to keep thinking that I’m defending Oda as perfect when I agree that this flashback isn’t (thus far) one of the more interesting ones; I’m disagreeing with you more that it’s “bad writing”, especially when you’re not really offering sound, non-contrary solutions or really rebutting my claims for why it isn’t bad writing but rather just (seemingly) poor assumptions on the part of the reader.
He possibly did some earlier when white shadow pointed out that he did two attacks that hit people without physically striking them. I will admit, though, that yes, I too am rather disappointed that we never got to see him do a named attack or, hell, even say that he officially knew Fishman Karate. Maybe Jinbei learned it from somewhere else…
Pfft. Chopper’s pretty bulletproof with his shape-shifting anyway and I’m pretty sure that Nami would fucking die if she got completely surrounded by her lonesome. Same with Ussop since he’s officially the weakest and the same with Brooke, though in that case it’s because he’s already dead.
Tiger Fisher did not have a natural defense against bullets, and if the women of amazon lily are able to embue their arrows with haki then why can’t marines embue their bullets with haki as well?