This thread is dedicated to making our favorite ‘menace’, more menacing. Talk about general Spider-Man strategies from approach, runaway, zoning/keepaway, option selects, resets etc. Anything that will make yours and others Spidey’s more photo worthy for the Daily Bugle :lol: This is not to be confused with the match up thread that looks at individual character match ups and approaches for one particular character at a time.
Well I guess I have to get this ball started :razzy:. Because I’m in training mode now I’ll talk about movement and my take on it. Keep in mind this is a group discussion so others please add on.
MOVEMENT
Everyone, yes me too, in MvC3 was using air dash to get around and blocking when shit looked bleak. That worked in that game but this game, I feel is trying to get more to what players wanted to begin with. With that being said air blocking while dashing is gone just like MvC2, so bad habits that we created because of this perk need to be nipped in the bud. Now let’s take a look at Spidey’s options.
[LIST]
[]Air Dash
[]All Strengths of Web Swings
[]Web Zip
[]Dash Jump
[]Wave Dashing
[]Back Wave Dashing (Plinking)
[/LIST]
What I am noticing about Spiderman is his options come from his movement. A lot of that movement has been in the air, and no one can be blamed for that he has EXCELLENT air mobility options, but his ground options weren’t thoroughly looked at.
Ground Dash
Spidey’s dash is similar to a hop. I kinda wish the old school Akuma/Ryu glitch was in to have another semi decent overhead in the game :lol: Anyways the difference in his ‘hop’ when compared to others like Dormammu and Doom is it can be crouch canceled thus creating a wave dash. His dash itself is not all that great as it starts up fast but is relatively slow. It does however cover great distance. From full screen one dash can put you at midscreen. This is good but this is better…
Wave Dashing
Spidey has one of the fastest wave dashes in the game still. For those not sure of the importance wave dashing has to a character, allow me to explain. Dashes are faster at the startup, slower in the middle, and slower at the end. Cancel the dash after the startup by crouching then dash again, this creates a wave dash and the faster the startup the faster the dash. The other reason this is important is because it allows quicker movement across the screen while giving you the ability to cancel for defensive purposes. A strong tool against zoning characters. As far as Spidey is concerned, and what I have to learn to use more myself, is this is a stronger tool against keepaway Weskers. Because Spidey is small he already goes under a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, dashing causes him to ‘hop’ into the line of fire. Wave dashing on the other hand cycles between standing and crouching frames, keeping Spidey’s hurtbox low to the ground while moving him forward. This also can be used against Doom and Iron Man’s beams but isn’t as easy as your dashes have to be timed correct.
Back Wave Dashing (Plinking)
Another good tool in his arsenal. Spidey’s quick movement allow him to get in and out in a few quick steps. Plink dashing backwards is good when in those ‘I need to get away from you’ moments. I also believe it to be good for spacing yourself away from an opponent to get web balls on the screen to irritate them enough to come to you. Once this is accomplished you can pick where to stand your ground and counter accordingly.
Dash Jump
Last but not least for ‘ground’ movement is the dash jump. Normally I probably wouldn’t even talk about this but I have identify why I think it’s good, well decent due to his floaty jump. Dash jumping isn’t exactly how it sounds. Instead of fully dashing and then jumping, which covers 3/4 of the screen respectively, you are jumping at the start of your dash propelling yourself forward in a single bound that covers half the screen. So for those who were trying to web swing for positioning this is just as viable an option as it allows yourself to react to whatever attempt they throw at you. Still gives you plenty of time to perform a late dash in the jump or web zip as well all while putting you at a safe distance from your opponent to plan your next move.
Air Dash
The option everyone is riled up over. At first try this move is hard to use. The dash itself is longer than before and has no ability to block. It’s not good for general movement across the screen as it is susceptible to all attacks while moving. The dash however is still rather good. Because of the changes made to it, it is now best used at mid range behind a good lockdown assist. The air dash is a good tool for catching people in his crossup setups along with catching back peddlers in combination with j:h:. It does have slight startup so do not use it willy nilly like (yes I said willy nilly). Once going though it is a few good mid range tool to hold onto. The key to using this mobility option is to save it for your last air option in the event you need to escape something or an opening becomes available.
Web SwingsAnother option Spidey has is the use of his web swings. To start off, this can only be used once in the air per jump. It can be used both offensively and defensively when moving forward. Each swing has it’s different properties in movement. :l: web swing is the shortest and fastest of the three and doesn’t cover much distance but it pulls Spidey upwards away from the ground. 
web swing covers more distance than :l: web swing but moves Spidey in a low swooping arc. :h: web swing covers the most distance but also starts up the slowest and has the largest swooping arc of the three strengths and is more susceptible to air throws. You do not want to just throw these out there to move forward. Pick and choose your time to use them. Spidey can block immediately after the last active frame on each swing plus they can all be zip canceled at any point of their duration.
Web ZipI would definitely say this move in general has changed the overall game for Spidey. It has a lot of stun on both hit and block. It can be canceled into from his special moves. Travels faster than in MvC3. Still allows movement and other actions after it connects with something and it can be used in combos. This move has definitely been a well welcomed move. Web zip has lots of priority when it comes to attacking and is great when used to get in. One could air dash, zip and proceed to attack or you could dash jump in zip then air dash for the crossup, etc. This move is very flexible. When canceled with different normals Spidey will drop off at different angles. This causes some air normals to whiff completely launching Spidey forward at a low to the ground arc that allows for instant lows. Also when used in ground movement or up close during a blockstring Spidey can instant overhead with :l: :s: and lead into a combo of choice from there. I would definitely say this move has plenty of applications that allow the use of all his options for better positioning. The key to this move is to mix it up and not let your opponent figure out ways around it. Also like Spencer you the hit box of the sticking point lingers for a short second so at some angles with an assist the opponent can’t jump out.
my first thought is that the lack off blocking during air-dashes didn’t hurt Spidey as much as I thought because it’s still fast
plus I’m loving the web ball xxZip… it’s fooled so many people
Well you have that plus other shenanigans. You can actually alter Spidey’s air dash to come out last, which I was going to talk about later. Pretty much you can dash as soon as zip touches something and you can dash immediately after web swing. So you can manipulate it to where you can create crossups behind web ball etc.
whoa… you can cancel the zip into the dash? I didn’t know you could do that… that changes a lot of things for me
you can’t cancel the zip into a dash per se, it’s more that you can do anything out of the webzip after it hits something [including dash]
definitely looking forward to the discussion in this thread, when I get better/have ideas for Spidey I’ll toss 'em in here
Yeah what phantasy said sorry for the confusion. In any case it can make for tough situations with web ball, web zip, assist, dash into crossup. That’s not including that he could theoretically cancel his crossup into web swing if they block and attempt a more ambiguous crossup. Later on all this later. I’ll probably start making videos on certain discussions we have to show to those who don’t post on the boards.
nice deal… I’ll start experimenting with that then.
The better advantage to it is you can call the assist before the dash and even if they pushblock the zip the assist can hold you down and dash can get you back in there.
I will edit this post later today… I have been busy with work and internet has been down. Hard trying to write long post on a cell phone
Well I got an email from machinima after submitting a video they want me to start commentating on my matches and doing tutorials for spidey. They are serious about trying to break into fighters seems like so I guess start expecting this thread to start having video links for some of the topics brought up as the game progresses
Zro was here…
You guys wanna know how retarded I am? I just realized that I don’t call assists in the middle of blockstrings; only when I’m trying to advance… smh
Maybe that’s why I’m not absolutely scary once I get in… just mostly. XDDD
:lol: that could be a reason.
whats the input for plink dashing? never heard of it. i just hold back, press M+H, then press down to cancel. whats this plink backdashing?
Do a dash with two :atk: buttons then right after that one press the two again and you will plink dash. It’s the same concept of wave dashing but without having to crouch and then hit back again eliminating quarter circle back and rdp inputs on accident
Which is better for attacking a opponent on the ground while you’re in the air?
j.:h: or j. :s:?
They both seem really good. The j.:s: seems good for taller opponent but it has a slow start-up. Or is that just me? I think the j.:h: is a bit faster than the j.:s: and the hit box covers more horizontal space.
It’s spacing dependent. When up close you want to use j:s: it’s fast and it’ll land you faster and closer to the opponent while j:h: is still fast it pushes the opponent away more. You want to use j:h: to catch opponents back pedaling away from you.
j. :h: 70k Starts up in 10 frames, active for 8, recovery 16, + 19 on hit, +17 on guard
j. :s: 78k Starts up in 9 frames, active for 8, recovery 11, +16 on hit, + 14 on guard
Alright, so check this out: I thought of a way to possibly get an aerial Web Swing in the middle of a block string:
Say you have the opponent locked down and are trying to open them up with a crouching blockstring. In case they push block to avoid the Spider Sting overhead, we should be able cancel into :u: Web Zip and then immediately perform Web Swing as soon as we start lifting off of the ground. Sound smexy enough?!?!
Imo, we realllly need to start exploring the absolute potential of using :u: Web Zip cancels for stuff. It allows us to get IAD’s from THE MIDDLE OF OUR BLOCKSTRINGS.
Honestly, I kept forgetting that we can cancel the middle of the flight from the Web’s retraction to do stuff while I was typing this lol. It keeps sounding better and better.