I think I realized the real idea of footsies, and the main reason daigo punishes with sweep, and the way he guarantees it.
Yesterday I decided to have a long ranked match session, ( GG to MajenX ). I met a great Ryu with decent connection, he was almost as solid as daigo. Almost a daigo imitator with great frame traps and footsies. We played around 60 Endless Matches after and Damn I learned alot! Result was 32-28 for him.
So I discovered if you want to play footsies you can almost OS ken’s sweep. I know people say stay away from cr.mk range and punish it with step kick, when I try he always recovered in time and either block my step kick or stuff it with jab or cr.mp =/. So what I started doing is DON’T pay that much attention to the ranges and distance, while deciding on playing footsies here is the safest option, hold back or down back and wait for 4 things:
1-He hadokens: block it then it resests the situation, you can jump over it on reaction but if your late you get anti-aired.
2-He walks into your cr.mk range: Stick it out immediately! this is like marking your area.
3-He does a crouching move: Here is the OS, its almost impossible to eyeball it and punish it. So just hold down back and press cr.hk/cr.mk when the tip of his crouch move reaches you. If you’re in his range you block it and due to the block stun you’re cr.mk/cr.hk doesn’t come out. if you’re out of his range your cr.mk/cr.hk will punish it on whiff( weapon of choice ).
4-Ryu walking toward you ( from almost half screen away ) : Remember that ryus CANT hadoken while walking forward unless he holds back a bit or from standing/crouching position. So what ryu is looking for here is either you’re hadoken to jump over it, or you’re jump to anti-air it. Step kick is the BEST option here especially if you hit in the second or more active frame and follow with cr.mk which is a great frame trap, and this will start the footsie play.
I know the information is not organized but I hope I helped somebody.
I often find myself focusing too much on footsie spacing of the opponent that my AAing suffers.
The simplicity of this OS is genius. It’ll def help out on managing my focus on different aspects of the game simultaneously.
I’m glad ppl are staring to realize the depth of footsies but u have the main part of it wrong.you can react and punish it.also a good footsie player wll realize ur paterns and counter with fireballs n your face focus atatcks and free jumpins oveer your sweeps.so remember to look for his patterns throw fireballs in his face you can bait c.mks and sweeps by walking back and foward and doing a c.lk most ppl react off of the feet.also when your doing this you can buffer u2if he decides to throw fireballs.basicly what I’m sayn footsies are hella deep so keep exploring.I punish c,mks with c,mks punish sweeps with kens sweep or step kick if I’m out of range.the. only characters that out footsie ken is ryu akuma chun and balrog.so when we get that faster sweep even tho its only 1 frame it will def help
I appreciate what you’re saying but as Mayho says, his AA starts suffering and it’s hard to react to jump-ins while concentrating on attack ranges and spacing, the same happens to me. I think by the time I get better in this game I’ll start playing like you, but damn my reaction is starting to collapse honestly, cuz all of that concentration on spacing, setups, match-ups, meters and other possibilities during the match. I find myself winning more when I play freestyle ken, but often lose if I face someone who knows how to fight ken, this is where I need match-up knowledge. U know what am sayin… And nice idea on whiffing cr.lk and buffering U2, so if he hadokens we just press KKK, if he’s baited into punishing the cr.lk with his cr.mk/sweep we can whiff punish it, good stuff.
PS: I have went to the lab and put ryu on record, doing block strings then doing random cr.mks from different distance to improve the idea of this OS, while in the same time trying to improve my reaction. I noticed using the OS with sweep often gets counter hit if you press it early, but cr.mk is all good.
I just wanted to add in a find I discovered while abusing Ken’s FTK follow-up after a fierce DP.
For some reason, Ken’s FTK puts him closer in for his meaty cr.lk than can be achieved in any other approach. This allows him to hit cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp ON EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME. Before, even cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp didn’t work on a select few of the cast, but this set-up allows you to go for it on every hit confirmed cr.lk!!!
Kool, G77. I’m gonna start to see how effective this becomes in actual gameplay. Now, if you go for a thunder kick instead, it would only meaty if they quick-stand after you F.DP them correct?
Ibuki if she’s crouching cr.lk>cr.lp>cr.hp will whiff no matter how deep you are. x_x I was wondering what was up with her hitbox when st. lp was whiffing when I was right next to her after cr.lk. Her shit is weird.
I know the main idea bro, but there is way more attacks other than normals in this game that can punish your whiffs ( fireballs, feilongs rekka, vega slide, bison’s scissor kick, cammy’s spiral arrow, rufus/cammy dive kicks, etc etc). That’s why I only talked about ryu because you basically know when he fireballs and/or when he wants to buffer hadoken in cr.mk. Our cr.mk and step kick are good tools to control spacing.
And while I was having those matches with ryu, it just happened instinctively when I press cr.hk/cr.mk almost late when I noticed ryu sticking something out. I realized that the word “Option Select” applies on what I was doing only after I rewatched the matches a couple of times, so I figured it might help someone, am not saying that this is the idea of footsies. This is just an add-on, and something to keep in mind I guess.
And by all means, please enlighten us with your knowledge, or if you already did then link us to a post please. I notice that you have been long enough in SRK to have the experience.
What they’re referring to, is that you aren’t really playing footsies. You just made a drop down menu of options–which means you’re being predictable. If I saw you go for c.mk 2-3 times in a row as soon as I get near you, this makes me assume you’re on auto-pilot (which is basically what you’re saying). That means I can walk up “random” DP your c.mk, and FADC into an ultra or something.
You’re also not really using an option select, you’re making up for sloppy spacing by essentially mashing. Training yourself to whip out a sweep every time it looks like he’s going for some low move will get you focus crumpled. A much better thing to train yourself on is to just know the actual range of Ryu’s pokes and sweep him on reaction missing it, not on reaction to him doing it.
Purposely playing on auto-pilot will make you bad, and the realization that you could (and the assumption that you should) means that that Ryu was clearly not on Daigo’s level. While fun to think that someone who can land a combo is good, the fact that what you were doing means that this Ryu attacked in a patterned obvious manner that over the course of 60 games you learned. I’ve played hundreds of games against a friend of mine, I can psychic DP his 3 frame jabs because I know how he times them and when he likes to poke. Someone else playing him wouldn’t.
What makes Daigo, Daigo, is that it takes him generally 1 round to know someone about as well as I know my friend. As demonstrated by his frequent first round loss followed by flipping on beast mode and tearing the person apart for the next 4-6 rounds. Oh, that, and shit like triple level option-selects that are inescapable (against Mike Ross’ honda at Evo, he had Mike down to chip death, he threw a meaty jab fireball and option selected it into a super / mp SRK. Mike Ross either ate Fireball > Super chip, or butt slammed out of there and ate a tip range MP SRK) on the fly. (For this OS and some insight on how you use them, ultradavid has a great video on it: [media=youtube]OVbR8hB1tZA[/media] )
If you want to learn something about footsies and spacing, I’d watch this until your eyes bleed: [media=youtube]U7_b1aMJHDA[/media]
thats what i was trying to say but im lazy.man when valle did the ex srk thru the fireball i was screanming lol thx for posting that vid just relived the moment.sik ass footsies
Thanks for posting that video because it brings up some points that were previously mentioned by me and Mayho. At 00:46 notice Valle not reacting to Daigo’s jump, Daigo jumped because he expected Valle to fireball, and Valle failed to anti-air which brings us the point Mayho mentioned, focusing on spacing and attack ranges makes you forget about the air game. Starting from 1:11 Valle walking forward and back waiting for Daigo’s cr.mk, Daigo just stepped back and did a fireball, Valle BLOCKED it, this was mentioned in my post. At 1:28 Daigo’s sweep was 40% reaction, and 60% baited by the cr.mk before it ( cr.mk that marked Daigo’s space, exactly what I mentioned in my post ). At 2:25 Valle got whiff punished by Daigo’s fireball because HE WALKED into Daigo’s area and did a cr.mk out if his own reach, mistake by Valle.
Something that you forgot about is that Ken’s walk speed is not as good as ryu’s. Especially his walk-back speed. Now tell me at 2:28 if Daigo was Ken, is there a guarantee that he would walk back enough to be out of Valle’s cr.mk range? No, with ken’s walk speed, nothing is assured. So ATLEAST if he’s ken wouldn’t you prefer if he walked that little distance and crouched and pressed sweep/cr.mk just when he expected to block Valle’s cr.mk, he might block it which will nullify the input due to block stun , OR punish the whiffed cr.mk if the distance was out of Valle’s cr.mk range, instead of getting counter hit? Notice that he only had a fraction of milliseconds to move until hes put into block animation which can’t be walked out of, so he can’t walk back anymore.
I know that Valle did some INCREDIBLE sweeps as reaction to Daigo’s cr.mk. Daigo also did the same but was more patient.
I clearly didn’t say that I was facing another Daigo, I only said he imitates Daigo style so it was a good training session. And it didn’t get me 60 rounds to figure him as you said, we only played so much because it was great training for both of us, and both of us would change style every couple of matches so that was the real fun of it.
I appreciate yours and lilsicx posts, but cmon guys go easy on me. Am just trying to contribute a little something I noticed! You guys made it sound like I overwrote the idea of footsies. Footsies remains what it is and we all know it. And I know that footsies and poking are too different things, now I am getting lazy of writing so I won’t go on. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and I know this will help me improve. It was my own fault for not explaining it right, but that match you posted helped a lot. By the way how can you know if Daigo or Valle didn’t press a sweep anyway upon blocking the cr.mk/sweep of the opponent?
And btw OS means covering multiple option in 1 or several inputs. This is an OS covering 1-BLOCK 2-Punishing whiffed attacks at max,possible distance. Quoting myself:
“He does a crouching move: Here is the OS, its almost impossible to eyeball it and punish it. So just hold down back and press cr.hk/cr.mk when the tip of his crouch move reaches you. If you’re in his range you block it and due to the block stun you’re cr.mk/cr.hk doesn’t come out. if you’re out of his range your cr.mk/cr.hk will punish it on whiff( weapon of choice ).”
I didn’t advise anybody to use it, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
/Rant
Yes and I tested it. By the way G, a meaty forces stand so if you hit em crouching it means your attack isn’t meaty. But of course the FTK put you in a great position even if the following attack is not meaty.
Well on this one we both are tripn,lol. I guess you didn’t believe it because you attempt your meaties after forward throw, the opponent can crouch in this situation ( I just tested ).
But attempting a meaty after shoryu/sweep knockdown DOES force stand, idk why but it has to do with waking up opponent’s feet facing ken, instead of his head. This is the situation G77 mentioned anyway. The reason I thought it forces stand on all situations is because I never go for meaties after throw. You can test by putting the dummy on crouch, sweep him then go for cr.lk or cr.mp meaty. Tell me what u get.
I am going to have to retract this statement as it is not entirely true. Doing the FTK follow-up only seems to get you closer in than normal if the cr.lk hits them while standing. For some reason, I must have forgotten to set the dummy to crouch for the tests.