i do still stuff it . you have to time it perfect still tho but its wurse against ken since they changd his dp u have to time the jumping short realy erly or ken will jab dp u and get half u1 it still can b stuffd tho
Tks for the post man…I guess I should not jump after I get a KD with sweep like lilsix does…apparently its not as safe as I thought…I will still empty jump sometimes tho.
I like to use lp walk forward lp lp to see if I can catch them in a combo or throw. Kens c.mp and s.mp I’m sure are both normals used for frame trapping with lk and lp I’m not sure of specificsatm tho…at work
Not being able to combo into sweep doesn’t mean you can’t safe jump off of it. It just means you won’t be landing them that often.
A Ken frame trap I use is to space f+mk close enough that you can connect with s.lp after. If f+mk is blocked, it’s not a tight frame trap, but still fairly safe. If f+mk hits, it’s a perfect frame trap. If f+mk counterhits, the s.lp will combo. Can follow up accordingly with a tick throw, c.mk xx fireball, or c.mk xx ex tatsu.
Defiantly sounds solid, I am going to test this out tonight and post my results.
[media=youtube]Td9wleIeDQA&feature=related[/media] (3:18)
After the 1st Kara Throw, I hold Back, and I go for a Safe Jump but my Jump-in Fierce whiffs. Now I know I have to wait a little bit more. Than the following Throws my Jump-in Fierce block stuns Sagat. That’s the timing for a True Safe Jump after a Throw. When you practice this in Training Mode, make sure you use Sagat or Cammy because their start-up on their DP is 5 frames. If you can Safe Jump those 2 characters after a Throw/Sweep, you can Safe Jump almost everybody (Theoretically, you can Safe Jump a 4-frame start-up invincible move like Ken’s MP SRK or Guile’s Flash Kick, but it’s almost damn near impossible. I don’t recommend it).
Note: Character Specific Safe Jump with C. LK isn’t a True Block String (even on hit).
Wassup CP. It’s cool to see you post more man. For the reset on Ryu, it only does that with if he uses F. SRK. I actually like this reset because you can Forward Dash Cross Under. And for some reason, the reversal window for the opponent that’s getting resetted is smaller so it’s harder for them to do an invincible move.
That’s key. After you condition Ryu to block since we can Character Specific Safe Jump with Cross-up C. LK, you can use the same Spacing and Timing to give the impression that you’re going to do it again, but this time jump-in with a MP/MK/HP/HK for a True Block String.
Ken can True Safe Jump after a Sweep, it’s just not as easy as Ryu. For Ryu, after he hits an opponent with a Sweep he just has to hold Up-Forward and it’s a True Safe Jump. But when Ken Sweeps an opponent he has to wait a little bit, than Forward Jump. The best indicator for the timing is to hold Walk Forward or hold Walk Back after a Sweep.
yea thats true but i didn’t say ‘you can’t’, I was just trying to explain that the setup for a safe j.fierce is hard when there isn’t an easy way to replicate the situation. You just need a good eye for distancing and timing to set it up on the fly.
Yooo Once again Joon coming through for me with a good idea, dashing under the reset is a nice option in this situation. I’ll definitely keep it in mind. I wasn’t considering the reversal being tighter but that is a good point and it will make the dash cross under more tricky.
I was just wondering if anyone was using Ken’s lp DP to end combos?
The only reason I ask is because I just realised that it gives you the almost perfect timing for an empty safe jump when you do an immediate jump after the lp DP (kinda similar to the mix-up you get after a fierce DP > immediate jump > lk cross-up.
I’m not going to say it IS THE PERFECT TIMING, because I have a sneaking suspicion that different characters wake-up at slightly different speeds (is this correct Joon?)
I say this because, if you end a combo with light DP, the following outcomes happen against different characters:
Ryu cannot reversal DP you if you empty jump.
Ken CAN hit you with a mp DP if you try to do a jump in attack.
If you do an immediate jump in on Sagat, your attack will whiff but his TU will also be blocked?
So by this logic, Sagat must wake up at least 1 frame slower than Ken does, otherwise the figures don’t add up!!
(Edit: Or maybe the lp DP hits 1 frame further into it’s active animation…)
Can someone help me out here! I feel like I’m on to something…
Maybe we can find a new mix-up for Ken here that will give us a great way to sustain pressure on all characters with reversals that are 4 frames or slower from not only untechable knockdowns, but also techable ones too!!
I’d gladly give up the extra damage from the fierce DP every now and then if it guaruntees me extended pressure and ANOTHER safe jump in attack against my opponent.
Anyone help??
Peace,
G.
sagat honda vega adon wakeup funny to me but i only end combos wit jab dp when its the corner.also short jab jab kara jab dp wurks fine but id rather fierce or ex.having another mixup tool is always good tho
sagat and camy have more wakeup frames.
by the way i like this thread i would like to fight some of you guys one day i am in psn and xbox
t.mk > c.lp
c.mp > c.lp
I score a good many counter hits with Ken but I’m having a hard time thinking of where these come from; a lot of it is just purposely waiting before initiating an attack.
If I find more in game play I will add.
I did some more testing on the jab DP ender and i’ve found some fairly cool stuff out:
If you end a BnB combo with a jab DP instead of Ken’s fierce DP, performing an immediate jump in attack will give you PERFECT SAFE JUMP TIMING* on all but a few of the cast.
(At the moment, it seems that Sagat, Blanka and Dudley quick rise slower than the rest of the cast by what I believe to be an extra 2 frames. I think some of the cast may rise 1 frame quicker, but I’ve not noted down these yet as it is much harder to quantify).
***The caveat with this technique comes from the fact that it gives you a techable knockdown and your opponent can tech the knockdown in what I believe to be a 2 frame window and indeed choose not to tech the knockdown at all.
Bear in mind also that there is a 2 frame window for reversals too!!**
So your outcomes are as follows:
If they quick rise on the first frame, your attack will put them in hitstun on the last possible active frame of your attack. You can happily attack anyone as they rise, knowing you will either put them in hitstun or block their reversal (obviously anyone with a 3 frame reversal cannot be safe jumped at all, only empty jumped).
If they quick rise on the second frame, your jump attack will whiff.
I recorded Ken doing either of the following combos:
Jump in FP, cl.st RH xx jab DP (punisher style combo)
or
Jump in FP, cr.lk, cr.lp, jab DP (hit confirming style combo)
then…
Immediate jump in FP, crouch block.
I’m going to do a proper run through of the cast when I get a chance but here is what happened on the select few that I can remember off the top of my head right now…
Ryu and Akuma can obviously beat out the jump in with their 3 frame DP’s.
Ken can hit you with his strong DP only if he managed to quickrise on the first frame, otherwise it gets blocked.
All of Seth’s uppercuts get blocked
Chun Li’s ex bird kick gets blocked
Juri’s ex Pinwheel gets blocked
Guile’s ex flash kick only hits you if he quick rises on the first frame possible.
Cammy’s DP’s get blocked
T. Hawks DP’s get blocked
Fei Long can hit you with his reversal DP
Guy can hit you with his ex hurricane kick
Basically, only Guy, Ryu, Akuma, Ken, Fei and Guile can possibly hurt you (more testing still required, these are only the ones that spring to mind right now).
Sagat, Dudley and Blanka do not get hit by the jump in at all (they are still in their wake up frames)
I need to look into what options Ken has if they don’t tech the landing but so far, I see this as close as Ken can get to an EASY PERFECT SAFE JUMP as possible.
I had some nifty OS jab DP loops going on some of the cast (a’la Gamerbee’s Adon, which was my inspiration for these tests!!)
**So, in summary:
If you are willing to sacrifice 30 points of damage from your combo (the equivalent of a single jab), you can elect to end your BnB with a jab DP and give yourself near perfect Safe Jump timing on 95% of the cast.
The only variables in this set-up are:
A 2 frame window on the tech wake-up? BAD
A 2 frame window on the opponents reversal attempt? GOOD
Opponents with 3 frame reversals. The immediate jump in must be empty to land safely.**
Obviously, you could also do all of this everytime you landed a jab DP on a grounded opponent. It doesn’t need to be a combo ender, it could just be a random jab DP you stuck out there!!!
Can anyone verify my guesses on the “frame windows” I’ve stated above. I’m not 100% sure, just assuming it from the outcomes I have witnessed. Joon?
What is everyone’s thoughts on this stuff?
Peace,
G.
took guile to the training room and has some issues. i couldnt do short jab fierce combos on him when he was crouching.wich is wak it wiffd everytime and also i was doing crossup short then short jab fierce and it wouldnt conect he would block but i knw i had the timing right cuz wen i would do crossup short then jab strate into fierce it would hit anybody have this problem b4?
jab into c. hp doesn’t work on some of the cast. Sad but true.
cs.mk > c.mk is another option to get an opponent standing.
It also has its downsides.
Someone help me out: what are Ken’s best Stun building combos? Thanks.
Anything that involves heavy kicks, heavy punches, or tatsu. o_o
So no one’s come up with a standard, high stun combo for Ken yet?
Wow. Guess I’ll have find one myself, then.
I’m pretty sure there are plenty of people who have manufactured their own high-stun combo but I typically focus on knock-down.
I know if you can get a tatsu combo mix-upped into another tatsu you’ll have most of your opponents at near stun.
FA or Jump-In -> s.hk (or c.hp) > hadouken > FADC > c.hp > tatsu. <-- Just an idea.
Anybody got any thoughts on my safe jumping comments using the jab DP? Kinda feel like it got lost in the mix up there…
I’m tempted to put it into it’s own thread, but I was hoping to test the waters in here first.
I’m sure people have there own, but it seems to me that if at least 1 or 2 standard combos hasn’t developed by now, the Ken community probably just hasn’t focused much on that particular aspect of his game. I may be wrong.
Are there any Option Selects that cover DP and Throw after EX Tatsu? I HATE the guessing game that move engenders.
Ken’s tatsu bnbs are great for stun.
For stun combo I use: c.short, c.jab, s.jab, c.fierce xx ex tatsu.
If I don’t have ex I take out the c.jab, makes more hits of rh.tatsu connect.
As for an option select a basic crouch tech works wonders, as it can lead into the above combo again.