QCF? :karate:
akuma
Spoiler
[spoiler=Dr.Chaos] ____
MagMan
Spoiler
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ryu
Spoiler
[spoiler=Dr.Chaos] ____
MagMan
Spoiler
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7544921&postcount=63
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sagat
[details=Spoiler] [spoiler=Dr.Chaos] 4.5/5.5
Game Plan: No Room For Mistakes
Offense
- You want to approch sagat safely without taking to much damage for it. The first round or any other time he has no meter you can kara focus tiger shots for free. After he gets ex meter it becomes a bit more tricky, and you can lose alot of life if you guess wrong. You might notice alot of sagat players throwing one regular, then another ex after. You can use this to your advantage to jump over it but they might not throw it out at all, so sometimes the best decision after a blocked tiger shot is just to wait. Staying on the ground for the most part is key, but you have to jump sometimes, or you will risk taking alot of chip damage. Once you approach the “danger zone” where its not safe for him to throw tiger shots anymore, you will probably see a change in there gameplay. Some may just sit there and wait, walk/dashback, mash s.rh etc. Just be cautious to not jump the gun and get hit by something that sends you all the way back to the other side of the screen. Thats when this match starts getting difficult. You are only allowed about 1-2 mistakes on Sagat and then its game over sadly
"Danger Zone"
Ok this is where it gets serious. Sagat will stop at nothing to keep you out and vice versa for you. You want to make a safest approach but sometimes that is not always easy to see. What you do not want to do is jump in recklessly. You will have to watch out for cr.fierce s.mk s.lk tiger shot(pushes you back even on block) tiger knee, and even tiger shot. Now some sagat players will just hurl tiger shots at you, knowing you won’t jump. But you have to at some point or will risk dying from chip damage. I lost many rounds/matches in tournaments to doing this. Being too safe, at some point in this match you will have to take a risk. But if you keep the match going fast you won’t really have to worry about that too much.
-Step kick gets you in but loses to some pokes, tiger shot(but will cancel them if it hits him on startup) tiger knee, and of course uppercut.
-Jump in loses to like any anti air in general.
-Kara/focus loses to tiger knee s.rh (if both hits connect) and ex tiger shot.
-Walk and block loses to nothing!
Walk up low forward and step kick is usually your go to moves, I would probably only use focus early on, if they have meter I would most likely use it sparingly. Thats why it is important to “Do Work Quick” On the same token don’t be afraid to jump if they are just hurling projectile after projectile.
Defense
-Sagat has a arsenal of Shannegians you will have to deal with unfortunately. Best way to deal with them all is to block alot. If they are low on life be EXTRA cautious because some sneaky sagat stuff is coming. Random focusing should be punished with low forward ex tatsu, or just jump back Fast! Tiger knee traps into Uppercut fadc ultra, should be watched for too. Also notice the postioning if Sagat has you in the corner he probably wouldnt waste his meter on uppercut fadc ultra since it scales in the corner. But sometimes you should rather just block and take the throw then risk it and lose to uppercut fadc, especially when your in the lead and the throw won’t kill you but uppercut fadc will. Just be mineful of Sagats 50/50s and respect them but try your best to avoid them.
Knockdown
-Ok, after sagat is knocked down you have a whole list of things to run on him. Tatsu cross up, Jump in fierce, cross up fierce, lk jump in. Standard mk cross up, jab kara throw, empty jump in, cross up throw etc. Just choose whatever is right for the situation, also the life meters will probably dictate the best one to choose. When there real low on life sometimes it may pay off to just empty jump in cr.lk, lp shoryu ftw. But you might catch that uppercut fadc ultra. But risks in this match do pay off immensely but just make sure they are smart ones, and you can afford the punishment if it goes wrong. Jump in Fierce and Jump in short deal with uppercuts good but not all the time, don’t think they will come out on top all the time, especially if they have an ultra, just go for safe stuff. You don’t want a traded uppercut to ultra to ruin your game.
What to watch out for?
-Tiger knee, Throw, Uppercut, ex shot. Ultra! These moves all hurl you back like full screen and un-do all your hard work. Thats why its important to eliminate Sagat as quickly as possible but also as safely as possible. However, if hes trying to punish your kara focus with ex shot, then he won’t have alot of ex to spare for fadc’ing. Use this stuff to your advantage to get him to waste meter.
-You can low forward some tiger knee traps and ones thrown from afar, but remember they might just uppercut. So be careful.
-Use mk tatsu so when you recover you can just walk back slighty and be out of grab range and be safe from uppercuts.
-Kara air tatsu can get you in full screen but I wouldn’t use it alot, its more of a last ditch effort. You could probably throw it out around begining of 2nd round and escape with it though, just don’t make it “too” predictable.
-When you have Sagat in the corner/down. Don’t follow him with attack after attack, make it unpredictable but at the same time don’t let him escape. You want to finish this match as soon as possible, the longer it goes on the more challenging it is to win, because he will have meter, ultra. Along with his usual tiger buddies. Be mindful of jump in grab/uppercut. The throw will reset the situation same with uppercut. Eliminate this option all together by Dp’ing all his jump ins and keeping him contained.
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MagMan
[details=Spoiler] Ken vs Sagat 4.5-5.5
Ken doesn’t have too much of a hard time as players would think. In fact, the top Ken players have proven the match up to be very winnable and that Ken provides enough tools to get the job done consistently. It’s just not a very fun match up to play, but when played right…it won’t be too fun for Sagat either.
The range you want to be in would be, of course, low forward range. He can’t really do much about this, he has to back up and st.short xx (EX) tiger, low fierce, or if he can get an angle he can st.forward. You can do a lot of things from that range though, a lot of things that can really bully Sagat.
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More cr.forwards. Walk up a step each time, every time he moves back…you move forward with him and out poke him with low forward.
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Walk up jump in fierce. Some Sagat players have trouble doing a jab uppercut. Depending on the range, you can completely go over him and walk up close roundhouse xx EX shoryu. Watch Sutoraikun (aka Strike) vs Cygnus/RF to see this in use.
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Walk up jump in short. This can beat jab uppercuts more consistently. Hits them out of the starting frame and you can combo if it’s deep enough, or just mix up/contain them in the corner. Harder to get used to using, though.
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Poke with kara throw : It’s really fast, and unblockable. If it needs a description, basically it can punish whiffs hard, allowing you to mix up safely after it. Ken’s forward throw ends games, and when you poke with this…you end games. Enough sad lol.
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Walk up cr.strong. This can be really good, if they press a button into it…the active frames of cr.strong will hit a lot of things. I’ve seen it beat Sagat’s st.short, st.forward, and the hit box of his cr.fierce went into it once as well. When you have something that takes those options away from him, it definitely gets a mention. If you get close enough for this, all you have to watch is the tiger uppercut. Which leads the the next option…
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Spacing + blocking. Probably more of an experience skill, but I’ll try to explain anyways. You want to maintain your advantage range. This is all about rhythm. What this means is…you want to have your neutral game rush down in a pulse, rhythm, or beat…then shift the timing. This allows you to block uppercuts, when they find a tendency on when you like to let out your poke. Walk 1 step low forward will only work for so long, until you change it to walk up, walk back, crouch then low forward. Try to expand from that…hopefully that explained enough.
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Lastly, I want to give the new neutral jump forward a mention. I’ve seen it consistently beat Sagat’s st.roundhouse, yours hits him in the head before he gets there. I’m thinking it works like Ken’s jump roundhouse vs Sagat’s st.roundhouse, you can win if you get the angle on it. That’s something I’ve seen Sutoraikun play around with, I’m sure it was for a reason. Try to add this into play and see how it works, so far…it seems to be little of risk when put in use.
So, after all that range talk…next up is how to get there. This is where patience and knowledge comes in. I’ll put them in notes and expand on them…
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Walk, block, neutral jump : A lot of players don’t have the patience for this, but if you want to do it right…this is the way to go. This easily gets you into your range. It takes some chip, but it’s better than taking hits. Not much more to expand on this, with some good blocking and good reaction with neutral jumps, you should be in there sooner or later. Remember to maintain good anti airing while moving forward.
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Kara focus : Used sparingly, it can get you in fast. The main problem with this, is getting EX tiger shot/tiger kneed/st.roundhoused. The first two knock you full screen, so that’s never good. To avoid starting all over again, you have to place these on tiger shots very nicely. If you guys have been playing the match up more often, you’ll have to worry about them baiting this out as well. This is best used at mid screen imo. My reason for that is…it can punish the recovery if you catch a tiger shot. So you can kara focus then fierce shoryu the recovery of the tiger shot, or just throw (good safe positioning/mix ups). If you’re really feeling nasty, you can even kara focus then jab low forward xx fierce shoryu the recovery, but I haven’t seen anyone go for it. So, probably not worth the small damage, and better to go with the guaranteed. Another use is around full screen, if you catch a tiger shot with a kara focus you’ll be at 1/2 screen…and if they instantly throw another tiger shot, you can jump and roundhouse, land close roundhouse xx EX shoryu. Note that you have to kara focus the tiger shot early, so you can’t wait for a short tiger shot to come to you to kara focus it…that will only lead to his next tiger shot actually hitting you. So make sure you time that one good.
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Step kick : Lots of good setups from this. Basically, when you support this move, it will support you. To do that, you have to have a good amount of low forwards in. Even though step kick loses to Sagat’s st.roundhouse, all you have to do if they’re throwing it out is low forward into EX tatsu. When you hit a far step kick, that’s when things can heat up for Ken . You can do a really nice option select, which is walk 1 step back into kara throw. What that does is, you can block tiger uppercuts and then k-throw him if he blocks or even tries anything other than like jab. Max step kick range also puts you in distance for that nasty jump cross up fierce that is safe from tiger uppercuts, as well as added in tatsus. You’re hitting from 3 angles at least, at that point. Make use of your pokes, jumps, and k-throws at that range.
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How to time jump ins, EX air kara tatsu, EX air tatsu, cross up short tatsu : Going in the air is very risky against Sagat. I saved it for last, because it should be used the least. But, it should be used nonetheless. The option came in here because he’s not supposed to be able to just place tiger shots at the same spot for free, just because he know you won’t jump. So basically, you do have to jump…but not to the point where you get killed. Timing educated jumps isn’t the easiest thing. Sometimes they come by pure luck, also. One thing you can do to save yourself is EX tatsu when you see you didn’t jump a tiger shot. Another one is to empty jump to force him to use his two meters to FADC ultra. Better than letting him get it for free lol. First, here’s one way to land a jump roundhouse. After you neutral jump, check the timing between one or two tiger shots thrown after it. Two is being very cautious, but if they throw the tiger shot at the same spot…you can get the full jump roundhouse combo in. Again, you want to find rhythm. Some Sagats always throw the tiger shot after they whiff a jab, after they move back, or after a back jump (good players usually don’t, though). This is another subject that is hard to expand on, as again…it comes with experience. It can go really far into when, where, and how different players move/space, but basically you want to be good at noticing things. Cross up short tatsu is best used in poking range, which is different from the jump roundhouse range…so keep that in mind. Since Ken can end games with his mix up, a last resort peak-jump EX air kara tatsu can save you. Some people don’t roundhouse it because they don’t think they need to bother because it’s so far. The range on this thing is very deceiving. Sometimes it hits 2 times on the front, then hits 1 time around them. Definitely a move to consider.
Now that you can get a lead, it’s time to use it to your advantage. Ken is underestimated on defense, but it should not be overlooked…he definitely has tools to run the clock and get that W.
Playing the distance
So now that you have him coming towards you, that’s in your favor. He has to put himself in your range to order to get the win. But before we get into that, here’s how you stall the game until he does do that…
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Pretty much just dodging tiger shots with movement, neutral jump, duck under high ones. That’s basic
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Timing fireballs. Yet another experience fact plays in this. For example, if you have a tendency to throw the fireball after ducking a high tiger shot, after you neutral jump, or focus absorb one every time, a good Sagat player will see this and EX tiger into roundhouse tiger shot juggle. Needlessly to say, that sucks for staying in the lead.
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Avoiding the corner. Run the clock, but do it in an educated way. Control the space you’ve earned, don’t just give it. When you get to the corner, Sagat has a range where his tiger shots are really hard to jump and it’s hard to react with neutral jumps accordingly to the pace of tiger shots. [media=youtube]tgsAedEXl90#t=1m31s[/media] So that is a bad spot, as the chip buildup will probably make you (or any Ken player) do something hasty and lose the lead. Don’t get caught in this situation, instead try to push him out with low forward xx hadou when he approaches. Again, play the spacing game in your range when he gets close…should be in your favor. WATCH the random uppercut because if there’s any time he’ll use it…it’s when you have the lead lol.
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Lastly, watch that tiger uppercut FADC : When he has 4 meters and you have the lead, BLOCK. I don’t care if he walks back and forth trying to bait your throw tech or anything, don’t OST, don’t throw break, nothing. If he throws you, it puts you at full screen. He can running tiger knee over to you, but just block. It’ll never end the game, the other option (getting hit) does. Sagat can kara short tiger uppercut back dashes, and a shoto back dash is definitely not up there so it shouldn’t be trouble for him to be hitting that.[/details]
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dhalsim
Spoiler
[spoiler=Dr.Chaos] ____
MagMan
Spoiler
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seth
Spoiler
[spoiler=Dr.Chaos] ____
MagMan
Spoiler
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