i’ve been practicing with sim for a while now. i got the basics down but i’ll get into the more advanced sim stuff when 2012 rolls around. he’s really fun.
All of the bolded buffs that you added are hilarious. You might as well ask for a 750 damage Rolling Thunder and hard knockdown on ducking upper. First of all, it’s impossible for Dudley’s level 1 focus to be -2 unless they removed a frame from his dash or they added another frame of blockstun to his, and only his, focus attack. From a designer standpoint, that’s dumb. Secondly, his jump-ins are fine. He has fucking j.hk. He can combo off of it even if it hits really high, you just have to do raw s.hk. Third, s.hk xx lk ducking being -1 would be retardedly powerful. There is a consistent design philosophy in SF4 across moves that reset blockstrings: either they’re really slow, or they leave you down frames to advance to the same spacing. This prevents people just hitting buttons for free. Blocking is designed to be a strong option in SF4, it stops people from just hitting buttons and seeing who wins.
Asking for aid getting in with Dudley is like Balrog or Makoto complaining that their reversals suck. Characters with strong points need weak points too.
Anyone from Capcom who reads this will just laugh at you and ignore this list. This will lead to the more reasonable request being ignored. The Gouken forums got many of their buffs because they asked for specific practical things that fit with that character’s design philosphy. For example, moving parry from kicks so anti-air tatsu is possible, a hit-confirm (but not off a jab!), a ‘safe’ special that combos off a light at close range, a practical meterless combo off j.mp, and EX tatsu not being punishable on hit because of them falling out all the time. But even then, they lost damage on backthrow -> ultra. Something similar happened with Dan - he has a hit-confirm and a 5 frame cr.mp now.
I for one would hate Dudley if he didn’t require the finesse currently needed. It’s not about him not being high tier. It’s about him being an intelligent rushdown character that hits like a truck but can’t force his way in. /rant
3 of those things bastardizations of things I suggested
-Dudley’s jHK and jHP have below average hitstun and blockstun, probably to avoid comboing into crHK. It’s not the much more hitstun/blockstun than a jMK. njHK has a ton of pushback, I think njHP is alright in it’s current state except whiffing on a few characters while dizzied.
-I said crLK needs less pushback, not all lights and mediums
-crMK really needs to be like 1-2 frame faster and/or have the whole glove have an hitbox (a lot of his moves hitbox has smaller range than they appear to be like crHK but I’ll leave that for some other time)
Really? j.hk and j.hp have lowered hitstun? Are you sure? I don’t think Abel can do jump in -> ultra 1 and both Abel’s U1 and Dudley’s cr.hk are 14 frames. I know Ryu can’t do jump in -> f.hp and that’s just 3 frames slower.
I think s.hk just needs a slightly longer hitbox and just leave cr.lk as it is. That allows the hit-confirm off the cr.lk cr.lp on Blanka and Vega and solves a lot of Dudley’s problems.
cr.mk being 1 frame faster would probably be reasonable but that move is already a very useful counterpoke.
OK, this is more like it… although like others I think some of those buffs are too much, and pretty broken. ;p If all of those went through there would be an uproar from the rest of the community with possibly the exception of Cody, Dan and Deejay players. I’ve struck-through the ones I find OTT. I’d like to see c.LK chainable… but that’s only because my execution still sucks linking through to exMGB.
I’ve added a motion change to Thunderbolt to fit in with the current joystick motions. However I did manage to pull off the move last night at the arcade vs. a good Ryu with sufficient masking to confuse… can’t remember the setup it as it more of an execution error. ><
Let’s try and get this refined and sent to him ASAP. However I do think we need to cut it down to between 6-8 buff requests at most.
Honestly I was surprised when cr.lk wasn’t chainable in Super because it is in 3s. I agree it should chain. It’s a little thing in this game though, because short short super was really important in 3s but not in SF4.
You should read the dev notes Kiku because that is EXACTLY what they did to Dudley’s Level 1 FA. They added 1 extra frame of blockstun for when it hits so that when you Level 1 FADC you get to -2. Also, Abel can do jump-in U1. Also dude, Balrog’s reversals suck, but they’re still better than Dudley’s and he gets in and maintains pressure easier. Why do you think I want Dudley to be more like Rog? I would gladly take 50-100 less damage on every single combo Dudley has for him to be more like Rog.
Crouch mk. is slower than Rog sweep, does less damage and stun than Rog sweep, and has less range than Rog sweep. It’s not that easy to predict 5 frames ahead of anything and even if you do it early to take advantage of longer active frames, there’s no guarantee they’re going to do a footsie. Is it really that ridiculous to ask for something like a 6-7 frame crouch mk? Hell give it a 20 damage nerf, just make it faster.
first of all, THEY DID make his lv1 FA -2. exactly the way i had it on the list. secondly, i definitely should have been more specific but if you’ve been here at all you’d know i actually mean block stun. the block stun on his jump ins are craptastic compared to every other characters. s.hk xx lk duck wouldn’t be retarded powerful. he’s still at the disadvantage. the idea behind it is for dudley to actually be able to rush gief/t.hawk down and play to his design without everything being SPD punishable (same for why i said l.mgb should be -1). they dominate dud because due to his unsafety,he becomes a rushdown character that can’t rushdown vs them. and they out range him so he also loses in footsies too so might as well let him do what he does best when he gets in.
WHERE DO YOU SEE ANYTHING THAT SUGGESTS ASKING FOR HELP GETTING IN? please tell me what on that list will make getting in easier. and before you come at me talking dumb shit, most of this stuff was already stated and i just rewrote it in a format that was more presentable. w.e anyone wanted to do with it after that is their prerogative. w.e i added wasn’t even really my own ideas but stuff expressed on the board (not necessarily in this thread) that i’ve seen mentioned repeatedly.
i’m done talking. next thing i say something that’ll get me banned.
i don’t remember who said this (i think it was east or mellow) but they were exactly right. anything anyone does to help on this board just gets met with negativity. why the fuck should anyone even bother?
Let’s just calm down a tad and bring some dignity to these forums for a change.
Take the list Cliffeside composed and add/strike-through (don’t remove, we can’t track changes) the points we want raising or think should be removed. If someone feels down about ‘their’ buff being removed they can respond with a knowledge post and appeal for it to be reapplied.
Again, let’s get this finalised and sent. The sooner the better.
I’m sorry if I came off as an asshole. I still think s.hk xx lk duck should be -2 at best. It’s a free ‘get back in there’ at -1. Dudley has f.mk already. He can also s.hk xx EX duck for CH combos still.
Dudley does ok versus Gief. You have s.hp and s.hk xx EX MGB. Your meaties beat SPD. You can AA him every goddamn time period. But Dudley is not JUST a rushdown character. His midrange pokes HURT. He can play footsies with most characters and do fine. it’s just Chun and shoto low forward that give him headaches, and he has f.mp for that now too.
Both the f.mk and cr.mk buffs suggested are related to getting in, because the one provides frame advantage and the other provides a hard knockdown off a counterpoke.
Dudley would have retarded safe pressure options if he had -1 s.hk xx lk ducking and -1 lp mgb. They are already pretty damn useful now. Dudley should not have the equivalent of Bison’s scissor kick pressure. I feel like you’re probably not using everything he has and that’s jading your judgement.
to be completely honest with you, i don’t really care what’s on the list. i’ll let people with more insight deal with that. my main contribution to this was just getting a format down that will be taken more seriously by the people we wanna reach over what we had going before.
though, i strongly support making s.hk xx l.duck being -1 OR l.mgb being -1 and l.ssb being -1. the way i see it, dudley has no truly safe approach to fighting gief/t.hawk. they have better footsie tools than he does AND all of his stuff is SPD punishable. with those buffs, when dud gets in, gief can’t just SPD all his problems away.
also dud is still -1.that means a frame perfect throw still beats all his normals, still means mash jab/lk beats all his DPs, this is honestly a very small change that really only has big effects in a few match ups.
Looks at Balrog’s place on the match-up chart…
Looks at Dudley’s place on the match-up chart…
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind losing awesomeness on dartshot. Oki in this game isn’t even about high-low mix-ups so what does it matter if you have the best overhead?