old and busted

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
221

Crouch Rounhouse +1 on block is relatively unnecessary in my opinion. He would be the only character with + on a sweep like move when the best sweeps now are like -5 to -3 on block. Also, the move has a lot of pushback, so what are we doing with that frame advantage? Also, the -8 on block isn’t so bad unless you’re really getting punished for scoops on block which has not happened to me unless they have had ultra/super, have been aware you can do it, and I was foolish enough to throw it despite seeing these things. Damn, Gouken’s sweep is amazing.

Dudley’s normals have much less range than in 3s. St. roundhouse has stupid range for how the move is drawn. St. fierce is fine how it is to me; however, I want step-straight to have a larger vertical hitbox. There have been times where I have thrown it out anticipating a low poke that wouldn’t connect on me and then Dudley’s fist goes right over my opponent’s head and I get comboed.

222

About Gief: Jumping = Trade Lariat xx EX Green Hand -> Mixup. How is that in your favor? And very rarely will St. HK beat out one of Giefs pokes clean. You will almost always trade or just get straight up beaten. And as for St. HP, I’ve had Giefs watch the HP whiff in front of them and SPD me in my recovery. Your only good poke in that matchup is Forward MP, and that only nets you a small amount of damage while you’re still getting walked to the corner. Dudley has no way to push Gief off of him.

The hit box on stomach blow does not beat lows. It’ll counter hit them if you’re at the proper distance like (aka, right up on them, but how are you getting that close), but that’s it . You know what’s a good low crush? Cody’s toward MP. Try both of them on Bison and Ryu and notice the difference.

Throwing out Forward MP is great but it’s a guess and will not get me in anytime soon. It’s the same with fierce, a tool that can get you a small amount of damage but that’s it, and even then you have to predict they’re going to do a low, not actually whiff punish one. It’s a nice tool to have but it’s way down on the list of things that’ll help the character actually get in.

223

Low crush, do you play Tekken?

224

WHO doesn’t play Tekken? Fighters that aren’t Tekken are shit.

Shit Fighter 3, Third Shit
BlazBlue Continue Shitting
Super Shit Fighter 4 Ass Edition
Mortal Krapbat 9
Marvel vs Shitcom: Fate of Two Phoenixes
Shit Calibur 5
Shitgirls
Shit Cargo
Melty Butts: Ass again

Only Tekken reigns supreme with its superior 4 button limb based system of combat.

All joking aside, if I don’t get any feedback from you guys about the list of changes you would like to see on the front page in the next… 2 days? I will choose the most justified/reasonable buffs that I think will help Dudley (I-it’s not like I’m threatening you guys or anything).

225

I already gave you feedback >:/

Fix that shit.

I hit crHK way more than I should. I use on people’s wakeup, use in footsies, use when I feel I pushed myself too far out with blockstrings. It’s 1 frame faster than f. HK so if people can’t react to overhead, they’re not reacting to crHK. I don’t use it a lot in a round but I do throw it out there just because it’s goofy looking.

I hate that I sometimes whiff it when it appears I hit their leg. If the hurtbox was shorter while doing crHK or the hitbox was a bit further out, it would improve it significantly. I can live with it being punishable on block but I won’t say no if they reduced recovery on it.

Green outline is the hurtbox on the move. The hitbox is barely outside the hurtbox >:/

226

I knew the hitboxes in SF4 seemed like crap compared to 3rd strike…that’s would explain a lot.

227

Check out the Gentlemen Encyclopedia thread stickied, there’s hitboxe data for most of his moves.

228

i just skimmed through a bit and someone said something about cross up. dud has a cross up/fake cross up in the corner. it’s not a safe timing but if you do j.lk on their wake up, it’ll cross up but then come back in front of them so you get a cross up but get to keep them in the corner.

229

Yeah Dudley has to play more solid but it ain’t because he doesn’t have a command grab. He just has a harder time getting in than Mak and Abel does (it ain’t like Abel and Mak have a walk in the park when trying to get in either. They have to play just as solid). It’s all about making reads and assessing risk to get in and get damage with the tools you have. So yeah playing more solid doesn’t mean your playing more intelligent, it just means you’re playing solid.

230

moves that dudley can use against low poking…

SSB and EX, a well timed EX duck, cr.mp, f.mp, well timed f.hp, cr.mk, well spaced Focus attack and last but not least cr.hk if your the mastah, but don’t ever try and pull it off cause shit gets risky real quick when your thinking about it lol.

Oh yeah, Cr.lk but I don’t think it’s worth doing.

Okay let’s bring up a low poke that usually causes problems… Rose slide and ken cr.mk

What move you use depends solely on who your fighting.

Let’s start with Rose, 3 options you can consider and which option is best to use to test your opponent.

  1. after blocking rose slide try and go for cr.lp if she goes for EX spiral you’ll block on time since the move is too slow she’ll have to land her cr.mp if she wants to land any spirals so obvious test is go for cr.lp

  2. after blocking rose slide you can mess up her timing by dodging her next set up move cr.mp and use LP or MP SSB getting a free 140/160 dmg in and +2/0 where it leaves you in range to F.mk or Grab for pressure or any other form of pressure depending if your opponent likes to mash crouch tech. If so, go for a quick cr.mp into buffer MP.MGB or LK duck upper to get closer.

  3. If you end up getting hit by her slide if you know for fact she won’t go for ex spiral then go with Lp SSB or EX SSB to dodge her CH set up and hit her on the way back.

I’ll explain ken later but you get my meaning.

SSB is great against messing up peoples timed pokes and Counterhit set ups. People that have far reaching pokes that come out 3 frames, cody/bison tends to get a little harder to do SSB set ups and you have to use a different version of SSB. if a person blocks Light SSB, then go for Medium SSB. if they block light SSB then go for Medium SSB will hit the tip of their block which makes it safe against 4 frame uppercuts or more cause after blocking light SSB they are pushed far back enough to where it would take their quick move more then 3 frames to reach you.

Once SSB spacing is on par then it’s really hard to punish even being -4, hell I do it against T.hawk and he can’t even command grab me when I space it. Zangief on the other hand… lol

**EDIT:::**also remember if you hit SSB point blank any version you can take 1 frame step and go for a grab, if your opponent expects this and trys to tech it, walk up a bit and do another SSB, then after that they really won’t try and press another button cause taking 140dmg and up isn’t fun at all

231

Can we not have Thunderbolt changed to reverse-DP motion? :frowning:

It’s not even a buff as such so harmless adding it to the list.

…for a more solid buff reduce recovery of Dart Shot by 1 frame. Because I’m lazy and the timings between 360 and arcade are screwing me up, I master one and the other goes to shit.

232

You’re right about low forward vs f.mp. Sorry. I have had great success with it myself but apparently I’ve been getting lucky.

As for Gief, don’t whiff the s.hp? >>

233

THREAD UPDATED
ADDED SOME STUFF
REMOVED A LOT OF THINGS, FIXED ALL (MOST) GRAMMAR, TYPOS, AND OTHER SHIT.

THREAD IS FINALIZED
EXCEPT
THE WISHFUL BUFF SECTION

FILL IN THE REASON WHY YOU WANT THESE FOLLOWING CHANGES UPPED TO ESSENTIAL BUFF LIST OR WHICH ONE YOU WANT IT TO BE REMOVED/ADDED PLASE EXPLAIN WHY INSTEAD OF “I DON’T LIKE IT” , “DOESN’T FIT DUD”, “TOO GOOD/TOO BAD”.

Invincible startup on Dudley’s MP or HP Jet Upper, but make it non FADC able.

Make Dudley’s Ultra 1 not get back-stabbed by Dhalsim, Guile, Chun-Li and other slow fireballs. The first 2-3 hits should be projectile invincible. And if you can please make it so that Rolling Thunder catches every characters backdash including very good ones like Chun-Li and Rose so that U1 makes the opponents think twice before escaping Dudley’s laughable mid screen pressure.

Target combos should be good as Ibuki’s and Guy’s.

Duck straight on hit should have less push back on counter-hit, so we can follow up with our pressure for people trying to focus bait our st.HP, f.HP.

Make Dudley’s Level 1 FADC -2 on block/hit.

Buff overhead so that the hitbox on his arm is far back enough that he completely stuffs most non EX reversals (like makoto’s well spaced overhead).

Improve Dudley’s cr.MP.

Increase the horizontal hitbox and/or decrease the amount of push-back on Dudley’s cr.HP like Cody’s cr.HP
This is more as a counter-poke measure, since it’s pretty much one of his few decent pokes, and even then it’s not very good at all.

Make Dudley’s s.HP -1 or -2 on block (it’s his only zoning tool, Zangief punishes this for free).

Increase the horizontal hitbox of Liver Blow (f.MP) to give Dudley a reliable counter-poke normal.
This is more as a counter measure against Zangief and other grapplers, so that he cannot just walk me towards the corner/ walk up Jab SPD us for free. There is literally nothing we can do about Zangief footsie-wise without guessing, (unless he jumps).

Increase Dudley’s EX jet upper’s horizontal range and give it more ACTIVE frames. Ex jet upper in AE loses to Seth’s regular DP and other characters’ regular non-ex DPs straight out. It’s ridiculous.

TIME LIMIT: 1 DAY

234

try and put in ex SSB having armor cause it’d help out with ridiculous corner pressure and long range attacks we can’t punish "fei long, balrog, bison, zangief lariat cause even if you land it you won’t get a good adv cause they can quick rise before you get anywhere close to using Overhead plus it’d just help restart the MU at neutral position or another trick of getting out of the corner. also SSB armor breaking but keep EX SSB multi hit and not armor break on 1st hit.

235

PLASE EXPLAIN WHY INSTEAD OF “I DON’T LIKE IT” , “DOESN’T FIT DUD”, “TOO GOOD/TOO BAD”.

236

No stop asking for shit to make him S tier or to mash, no invinciblity on JU is intentional design choice
Yes please!
Confused, he isn’t reliant on them and they work well already
Yes I would love beefy CH combos
No -2 on FA lv1 dash forward, everyone has the same amount of hitstun/blockstun on FA, stop asking for shit to make him S tier
Confused
Yes and shorten the hurtbox on crHK too!
eh
eh
I’d like it to slide forward a bit instead but eh
Actually it loses because they have more invincibility frames, not active frames. Seth’s DP stuffs a lot of DPs and no DP has more invincibility than Seth’s EX DP.

237

Hold on… you guys want Dudley’s overhead to just stuff reversals?

238

To stuff/trade non EX reversals that has less than 4 frames

239

HE does. He’s gone off on his own and made the first post kind of ridiculous. He’s no longer listening to the suggestions or making the first post full of reasonable request (lol at super armor duck and 7 frame sweep and 10 frame scoop).

Waiting for crjab that’s +6 on block.

240

Check the Capcom Unity and other various forums, I’m listening to their suggestions as well and getting through PMs. There are many people who wants less startup on cr.MK and cr.HK and they EXPLAIN why they want it. I’m more inclined to listen to those who provide a detailed explanation on what needs to be buffed/removed than the ones who goes “uhhh this”. Overhead buff was 34’s idea.

And guys, don’t overreact. It’s wishful buffs, they can be taken down any moment if there are enough justified disagreement.