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No, you just see all kinds of in game BS since you have 0 idea what the opponent is trying to do, you just see his char bust a LL out of nowhere.
christ, how is causing a distraction that does not completely physically impede the other person not allowed? This ain’t mother fuckin’ golf here. By that same logic, you’re not allowed to talk shit during the match to get into someone’s head. What if paul had said, “your twitchy ass nerves can’t parry that shit.” instead with the same result? Same thing, if paul doesn’t straight up wrestle his ass to the ground, or pick up and drop the entire console, what’s the big deal? Half the game is execution and nerves. Letting something outside the game bother you IS PART OF THE GAME. Let’s all remember here that tourney play and casual play are 2 entirely different things.
Like Omni said, who hasn’t completely overacted a fireball motion in HF to bait the other guy to jump? Who hasn’t looked at someone elses hands to figure out what they’re doing? Hell, look at chain throws in tekken. If it got started on you, all you do is look at what command the other guy inputs and tech that.
edit: forgot to say, grats paul, have a good time in Japan.
Mashing the buttons and stick while someone is attempting a combo/parry/whatever has been around for a long time. I learned that shit a long time ago when I saw Alex Valle do it in tournament (along with pretending to feint once during when his opponent tried to punish a whiffed DP :lol: ). The thing is, it’s Ok when top players do it but when lesser known players do it then there’s a big problem. Shit, I remember one MvC2 tournament where Duc Do literally shook the machine and moved it a few inches in order to fuck up Combo Fiend’s IM infinite. There were a few whispers, but no one said jack shit about that and that was the most blatant attempt at fucking someone up that I’ve ever seen. By the way, CF didn’t fuck it up. 
Anyway, it’s part of the game as long as it’s not to the point where you’re moving the machine. If you fuck up when someone tries to throw your timing off, they’re taking advantage of your nervousness. I’ve had people try to mess up my AHVB timing by mashing and it rarely works. When it does, I don’t cry about it…
LOL
coming from the guy that is ‘known’ for dirrty ass play
it’s ok with u, but not with everyone else
kthx
if you want to touch something wrinkley with a refreshing scent of nature, come suck my balls.
Lol. Dirty SiN. SiN did it to me once in casual, and it suprised me because no one has done it to me before, but I think that if it happened again, I’d be me prepared for it, b/c I’d expect the possibility of that to happen.
You know, it’s kind of like any sport event where the fans will yell shit out from the crowd, the players deal with it. Like college bball. When UCLA fans had a bball team to cheer about, we would literally shake Pauley Pavillion with stomping and yelling. You don’t hear the players complain. THey usually say the tune out the shit.
It makes me wonder, though about tennis. The players are grunting and causing enough noise. Maybe I can understand when the player is about to serve, but after that, sounds are fair game. Why does that sport need to be silent? I understand about chess or golf, but tennis?
My quick opinion. Part of tourney play is composure. There ARE some players that will shake the machine. Those players will do anything to win. Those players are pretty wack. Especially if they do it while they are losing because the opponent won’t want to stop and tell a judge if he’s winning. Those players suck ass and can’t accept when they are truly beaten. It’s kind of a temper tantrum.
Having said that and having heard some replies here AND having been around Paul a bit, I have to say, I don’t think Paul is the type to do something like this. He’s a great player. Not a player that can’t accept losing. Paul has never come off arrogant in my presence.
Aside from LITERALLY shaking the machine, there’s no point in bringing up opponents that distract you while playing. Tourney play has A LOT to do with composure. We all know this. This is serious. Either you have your shit solid or you don’t. If you get distracted or startled by something and mess up, that’s YOUR bad for not being able to control your composure. Work on it so that it won’t affect you next time. In my opinion, you should be able to talk directly to your opponent. Boxers and other types of fighters do so often. You can be cold and not let anything in and you can even use it against your opponent if that’s all they have. As long as nothing is done that would affect the opponents controls directly, it’s all good. Composure is key to becoming a champion. If you don’t have it, you don’t deserve the win anyway. It really doesn’t matter what you can do without any pressure. Pressure is the key element in tourneys aside from straight gameplay.
If someone slams of shakes the cabinet so hard that it makes the opponents buttons go off or it moves the controls so that what would’ve been a perfect motion isn’t, then I understand.
Hell, I think you should be allowed to go BOO! As long as you don’t do it in their ear and force them away from the game. A sudden sound, intense mashing etc, is fine. That’s my opinion.
I can’t say what happened, but I feel that witnesses would come forward and agree that Paul had done something to alter the use of controls as in Sin’s explanation of Duc or Combofiend’s gross machine shaking against Golden Nismor at B5. Stuff like that is shady and wins from acts like those aren’t real wins in my book. I don’t care how great the player is. To some, a win is a win. Again though, I REALLY don’t see Paul Lee as being one of these types. It sure sounds like he did the only thing he could do in retaliation to that parry. Which is, try and distract him until he finally eats or blocks a hit. I give Paul props for being smart when it counted most, unless of course, he altered the position of the machine so that Vic’s motion was, in turn, altered. If that was the case. I’d bet it was an accident. But I’d also bet that that wasn’t the case.
If the machine, itself, or the opponents(Vic’s) hands weren’t affected, it was really lame to even post about it. As if Paul had done something “not right.” Looks to me as though they both fought to the end, Paul slammed buttons loud, Vic got distracted on the parry timing he was counting off in his head by allowing a loud noise to take his attention from the task at hand and, in turn, mistimed the parry on the hit that killed him. Seems like a pretty leet finish to a tight match.
I wasn’t there so understand that I can only speculate on the events but my opinion on what should be allowable and what shouldn’t, stands as written. There should’ve been no mention of this unless it was completely foul. How petty.
Apoc.
Hm…If a little button press startled or distracted Vic from seemingly winning the match, I would hate to see how he would have fared in japan with those announcers.
“WAAAAAAH! JOHNNNNYYYYYY!”
Slamming the consol ain’t new to me… It was done at N-cubed when ppl started their ge-nei-gins. Slamming to screw up someones timing should be illegal. Its bullshit and deep down everybody knows it.
The point of a game that’s totally removed from physical prowess and presence is to test one’s skill. Attempting to psyche your opponent out like that might get you the win in some situations, but for a tournament to go to Japan where the object is to assemble a team that can beat the Japanese on their own turf, it’s pointless because of the Japanese head-to-head setup that COMPLETELY eliminates those sort of tactics.
Granted, if Vic really was focused enough, he wouldn’t have been thrown off, but I don’t think anyone really expected Paul to pull something like that off because we all respected Paul as a player. Personally, I’d like to give some level of respect to my opponent- You look at a game like golf where there’s a unanimous consent for respect to the player at the tee… that’s sportsmanship right there. Anything in the game short of crashing it (hard or soft crashing) is fair. Resorting to physical means is a clear sign that your actual skill isn’t up to par, and I think it lacks a certain amount of class as well.
In short, it’s scrubby, and I’ll laugh like hell if it’s ever tried on a head to head cabinet.
PS: The bit with the Japanese announcers is thus: You don’t see the Japanese announcers screaming to fuck you up, they’re there to encourage you as you fight. It’s there as a constant presence, and you get used to it. They believe in the spirit of the fight, if you want to get into their metaphysics. Don’t pretend to know what effect or intent the announcers would have in a match.
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Anybody know how masaka did?? Wooo go chris Li…hope yall got some video!!!
but congrats to both for reppin the RIPGT!!!
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Agree. IMO a great player should win matches with skills, not with distracting your opponent. If Paul is really that great of a player, he should’ve let Vic parry the whole super then figure out how to take him down in the next round.
3S 2nd chance tourney losers’ final:
Vic: can we play on the small cabinet?
me:…??? 
me:…oh…ok
couple seconds later…
me: I can’t jump forwad…
Vic:…(keep attacking)
me:…:bluu:
Actually a great player should win matches with appropriate behavior …
Tough shit adapt. The japanese did they were body faking after and slapping buttons to mess with each other like after an hour of the side by side cabs. i was so proud:)
It’s not as though the scene had some rule that Paul should be following. In fact, making loud noises has been around since SF2. In fact, go look at the old gamepro HF guide in the back where Tomo explains how he hits buttons hard to distract his opponents. When I was at Evo, funny as it may sound, I hella slapped jabs hard enough to make sure the Japanese could hear it on the other side. We naturally attribute sounds to correllate with attacks. Slapping a jab button, just because of the loudness of the slap, can make an opponent react as if you hit a fierce or tried a hard hitting special. It takes advantage of preconceived notions that we all have.
To act like Paul won without honor is ridiculous. The point is, trying to distract your opponent from his best game is part of fighting and fighting games since their onset. To act as though it isn’t part of the way we’ve been playing SF all along is dumb. Say you get hit with an infinite type combo on mvc2. You’re in it, you’re done. You have absolutely no control over your character now. You’re telling me that it’s dishonorable to mash buttons in order to interrupt the opponents rhythm? Hell, there are even strategic ways to go about messing up rhythm in your mashing. That is your only defense at that point. It’s not reliable. Nothing about attempting to distract your opponent is a guarantee it will do so. It’s a final option at that point and you can only hope it works. You hear about Ali talking shit in some of the most memorable fights of all time. Shame on him for distracting his opponents from their gameplan and trying to rattle their composure!
I think you all are weak for acting like it’s dishonorable.
Comparing SF to Golf? Golf is not a competition where winning requires you to force mistakes on your opponent. You’re only competing against your own abilities and shortcomings. Golf is better compared to a combo contest than an actual SF match.
Darn, you have to REALLY concentrate on your shit because someone might try and distract you! That’s a lot better than whining and saying:“I missed my shit because he distracted me. What a sore loser he is.” No, what a sore loser you are. Again, composure is a part of fighting and fighting games. Mind games make things too complicated I know. Sheesh. Things like this enhance the “fighting” spirit that the games try to capture. Take them away and they are mere videogames. It’s so much easier to concentrate and process things when all you have to do is watch the screen. Not every character is designed with their own set of fakes. You can’t fake a fireball really(cept in some alphas where it’s a move). It’s a mindtrick played with the stick. Let’s take that out so the opponent doesn’t make a mistake. Mindtricks like this make it deeper and more of a real fight. Real fights are dirty. Even if they aren’t obviously dirty. You play within the rules and utilize things to the best of your ability. The stick is your weapon. I suppose it’s dishonorable to fake your opponent by doing motions with the stick too? I’m sure they wouldn’t have thought a fireball was coming if they didn’t allow the opponents joystick to take their attention through their peripheral vision and effect their judgement.
Seriously, if you want to play that way, go to Japan with a head to head arcade where all you have to worry about is the screen and you, where the biggest fakes(and the like) that you see are characters going up,down,up,down,up,down. Since you can’t fake them with your set of controls. Unless, of course, the fakes are built into that character. I’m sorry, but it’s a flaw if you can’t control your reactions to what your peripheral vision catches or what your ears hear outside of the machine.
Quick example. Honda vs. Vega on ST. Honda headbutts are fast and you can’t let honda get ahead on damage really. So you don’t want to block them. It’s great if you’re fast enough to flipkick them on reaction. A common Honda fake on Vega would be to do a jab headbutt since it starts too slowly, in order to bait Vega to flipkick so that Honda gets a free opening for mass damage. If nothing but the screen is there, it’s easy to see this fake. In an actual match, the player could slam on the jab to start the headbutt which would excite fast-twitch reflexes and it takes strong composure not to react to that when it’s so close since you’re trying to hit the headbutts and not block them. The Honda player could even move the stick toward you hard AND slap the button hard. It sounds like they have full intent to attack you and, in most minds, loud equals hard. The whole action is designed to make Vega think it’s a fierce or strong headbutt and not a jab. If this situation was on a head to head machine where players can’t see eachother it would be SO easy to NEVER fall for that fake. As is, in America, it takes mad composure and a keen eye to recognize the fake and not react to it, therefore taking advantage of the intended fake. On BOTH sides, the mindgame is far deeper and not limited to mere pictures on the screen. That’s why it’s a mindgame. Your mind is being pulled to add in unnecessary things to the calculation. If you get sucked in like that, you fail. You were duped mentally. If you want games where things like this are absent so that you can show how good you really are…then you aren’t that good. Not by the criteria that has judged american players for the past decade. This example situation is much more easily dealt with without the mindgame involved. Of course ppl who can’t handle it that way wish it was easier. Hell, we’re even forced to play that way when facing Japan. We have yet to face Japan in American style SF.
Sorry for the babble. Point is, this has always been a part of American SF. To act as though someone is dishonorable because YOU don’t agree with it is wrong. We play side by side here in America with all the intense mindgames that playing that way brings. If you’re afraid or if you want to complain about things like this, you may want to only enter tournies where the rules suit your style of play or where all matches are played on head to heads.
Paul deserves props, not disses.
Apoc.
[quote]
*Originally posted by Apoc *
**It’s not as though the scene had some rule that Paul should be following. In fact, making loud noises has been around since SF2. In fact, go look at the old gamepro HF guide in the back where Tomo explains how he hits buttons hard to distract his opponents. When I was at Evo, funny as it may sound, I hella slapped jabs hard enough to make sure the Japanese could hear it on the other side.
I got that idea from that interview from the HF guide. One time I was at SVGL playing ST, (Bison vs Guile) I happend to smack the roundhouse button to time my counter (his Guile was low on life, counter his boom attempt)and to distract him and psyhic him out. The dude took it the wrong way and thought I was trying to inflict more damage because I hit the button hard.:
APOC…why try to explain partna?? They dont know about “old school mind games yet”. But I understand a seasoned vet explaining the reasoning.
Oh and you should of mentioned
-whiffed motions ~ where you act like you gonna do a fireball but never touch the buttons
-Koop out.
Just another reason why I say head to head cabinets instead of side by side …but thats another debate
AMEN!
Paul, good luck in japan!
haters, good luck jackin off at your local arcade! :lol:
BITCH dont qoute a 3 page post and reply with 4 sentences. You space wasting bastard.