Official SSF2T: HD Remix General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1481

I’m still kind of new to the HD beta, but here are my impressions so far.

Let me start with something that will flame me to hell:
I liked SF2 Hyper Fighting on 360 Live. If even one person (out of 2 to 4 people playing) had a bad connection to the others, the game sucked. It sucked hard. However if you weeded out the players that slowed the game down (in either rank or quarter match) the play experience was really good for me. When I played people that I connected to well, the game played great. I felt the game. Very few lagging moments occurred, and I enjoyed the experience.

Now when I play SSF2T HDR, I have only felt this way a couple times. Usually the game just feels a tad…off. Sometimes the game warps the players, sometimes the input lag is just way off. In the end I think the overall…grand scheme of things…all things coming…the experience in HDR is better than SF2 Hyper Fighting on the 360 over Live, but I still think that given the right players I enjoy playing the former on Live more.

I just don’t feel as good on HDR over Live as I do over the “old, crappy” network coding of the old game. And it isn’t that finding a good connection on Hyper is impossible either.

In a nutshell, I am not impressed. I will play more, and hopefully I will play more players, because I have had way too many matches against the same person. Once I figure things out, I will update my impressions to Capcom.

Also, is it just me, or is it kind of easier than it used to be to do a fierce DP with Ken, get on the other side of the person, and throw them than it used to be? Seemed like an over 50% move unless the person hit you out of the air on the way down.

1482

You are correct.

In HF, the game slowed down to a crawl whenever you had a bad connection. You KNEW when you had a bad game, because it was apparent from the second the game loaded. In STHD, GGPO, and all other online versions, they are basically “hiding the lag” and you have no idea when the game is fine or when it is going to totally suck shit. This is extremely apparent in Ranked games that you Create…you have zero ability to see your opponent’s ping or to deny them if it is a terrible connection.

My major gripe with this generation of online play, is that if the game lags, you have no fucking idea of the quality of your connection, until you try to do something clutch. OOPS, your reversal didn’t work. OOPS, you can’t block fireballs if they are less than halfscreen away. OOPS, you thought you knew what was going on, then the game pulled a rewind and you just lost 60% health. Well to me, OOPS is not acceptable. And that’s why as an offline player, I do not accept online play as the same as offline.

However, if people accept online as a tournament-worthy standard, I have no problem with that, as long as they realize that it is not in any way related to offline play. They are totally different games.

1483

didn’t see these posted here yet. sorry if i missed it

character portraits

http://udoncrew.deviantart.com/art/Character-Select-Guile-95263473 -Guile
http://udoncrew.deviantart.com/art/Character-Select-E-Honda-95287440 -Honda

1484

…i’d rather have character updates. >:(

1485

What a load of crap. This is a gross mis-characterization, just like all your other posts.

1486

your a fucking dinosaur and i dont just mean that in age

1487

DSP is banned.

Rejoice!!!

1488

how is ggpo anything like what you just said

1489

:rofl::amazed:

sorry couldnt help it…:rofl:

1490

Ok guys, do not listen to DSP about GGPO. When he came on the few times he did, he would complain about input lag. I explained him to a ton of times about converters having input lag and being able to fix it by changing his USB polling rate. If he was still feeling input lag after doing that, then maybe his complaints would be taken more seriously. Unfortunately, he was using vista. Changing your polling rate on vista took more work at the time and he didn’t want to do it. He was scared to uninstall 2 updates that was required to do it.

Anyway, he played for a while and still blamed ggpo for the input lag. GGPO is set to 1 frame input lag by default for smoothing purposes. I set mine to 0 the majority of the time. Lag on ggpo appears in different ways. You get things like rollbacks and sometimes you get a minor freeze (like someone joining to spec you in 3s). Even with major packet loss I’ve never gotten input lag. I’ve gotten crazy graphical glitches and everything else. But if i press my button I get my attack. It may get rolled back but my attack comes out. Bottom line, he’s not a reliable source and he talks out of his ass 90% of the time (Yes, I know this is public knowledge).

1491

USB polling rate is just one of the things that add delay, but it’s almost irrelevant per se in a 60 fps fighting game: 7ms difference in the worst case scenario between the default 125 Hz and 1000 Hz.

Even the default one frame of delay in GGPO is nothing compared to the built in delay in most LCD monitors. 90% of them have quite big delays, specially the ones with good panels (which means buying an expensive monitor is probably going to give you a less optimal gaming experience).

Latest Dell models or even the BenQ/Samsung ones aimed to gamers have as big as 70ms of input delay.

1492

Maybe this is a Tech Talk question, but where the hell did this stuff on USB polling come from? USB HID devices actually say when they get plugged in how fast the interrupt polling on a particular endpoint should be; USB specs says the OS has to honor that amount. If my device requests 10ms between checks, the OS had better be checking every 10ms.

So where did this come from? Can someone throw me some links?

1493

Phil your on crack…GGPO works wonders for me its so good!!! As for lag only thing I ever got was some roll back when I’m playing japan or brazil players. But I always get the moves I want out and always get my reversal no input delay has ever happened to me.

If HD is even close to GGPO I consider it a success

1494

That’s why people force them to report at 1000 Hz (instead of the usual 125 Hz) using modified drivers. It started with FPS players a few years ago, but it seems like it has now spread to gamepads and sticks too.

New gaming mice and keyboards already report at 1000 Hz by default or come with drivers that let you choose the polling rate.

I don’t know what kind of links do you want, but the first one to publish a method to do it was RtCW player and mice freak raziel on rtcw.no. I don’t know where you could find that article nowadays, though.

1495

Where does this post say that I’m talking about GGPO exclusively? The paragraph you quoted starts with “this generation of online play.” Thanks for assuming. This is more directed towards STHD where the problems are way worse than GGPO, and every game seems fine (except for the worst ones where everything is jittering all over the screen). In fact, my last statement in the paragraph before is directed solely at STHD. Way to jump the gun.

However, the statement still stands. GGPO, STHD, and possibly 2df (I haven’t played it yet) all seem to try to make the game the same as an offline experience, when in reality they are masking if you have lag or not. I would rather have the game run in slow-mo, so I know that the game will suck ass, rather than have it seem to run in real time, and then end up getting raped when 1. moves I’m doing don’t come out, 2. clutch reversals don’t come out, and 3. I can’t react to things happening because of lag. Please explain to me how this doesn’t apply to GGPO? Because I certainly wasn’t able to react to certain things going on, and I was most certainly pressing buttons and nothing would happen in the game. So you can either blame hori, or you can blame Dell (and I was using XP this time, not Vista as Nydrin suggests), or you can blame the programmer, or you can blame the 3rd party who manufactured the USB port, or you can blame God. But the bottom line is, it was NOT as good as an offline experience. Please disprove this point.

It doesn’t matter who’s to blame. Is it GGPO, is it STHD, is it 2df, is it hardware, is it software, or is it a combination of factors? I don’t know and I don’t care. But what I do know is, if things don’t go down online the same as they do offline, then it’s not the same ST. and that has certainly been my experience so far with all forms of ST online play. Everyone here is so quick to go tooth and nail to defend their favorite form of online play, and everyone certainly has valid points about how there has been an ST resurgence because of GGPO. But at the same time, how many well-known, top ranked ST players have posted about how they love this new generation of online play? I’ve seen exactly 0. If anything, players like Shirts and myself have said that they appreciate the effort, and that GGPO is the best effort so far, but it’s still got a long way to go to match the offline experience. Sorry that we speak the truth and don’t sugar coat our opinions, but that’s just who we are. Deal with it, and if you don’t like it, move on. If anything, the best praise of GGPO I’ve seen is people saying that if it weren’t for GGPO, they would never have any ST comp…this alone warrants praise for the effort put into the project, and you should feel good about your time and effort that was dedicated to it, because it’s obviously making a positive impact on the SF community. But I’m not willing to jump to the next step and say that it’s as good as offline play just yet.

1496

^ …he’s blaming GGPO for his execution. lawl. DSP is SRK’s “village fool”.

1497

GGPO is the best online experience I’ve had only because I can hide lag by playing with the Smoothing; however, even with this option, the difference between online and offline play is substantial…for me at least. The subtle differences are a huge factor in determining the outcome of a round…which in ST most rounds last about 10 seconds. LOL. I can factually and personally say that I can do so much (of the subtle nuances) offline that I can never do online.

I make no bones about it: I’m an arcade player. And the difference between emulated speed and arcade speed whether it be U.S. or Japanese speed is substantial. Emulated is so much faster. Just another personal factor when playing online.

I won’t name names, but I know there are a few posters here that never played or grew up on the arcade versions, so they don’t have the perspective or experience to compare versions or what not.

So, anyways, personally, GGPO is good for practicing matchups and just having fun because most of the time it’s a good experience. I won’t name drop, but I’ve heard many other top players other than myself talking about online play in general (not just playing on GGPO) and how it’s not to be taken serious for obvious reasons. Maybe I’m naive, but I’m surprised people would think online ST results can be taken seriously. If you know ST, then you would know, especially in certain matchups or if you play certain characters, the most subtle online difference has a huge impact on the outcome of the round.

DSP: LOL. Don’t name drop me in your crazy rants.

1498

Phil does have a point in that even if it is possible to make GGPO a better experience, most players are not willing to put in the time and effort to do so - how many people can’t even be bothered to forward their ports, forget changing USB polling rates?

1499

this is for you guys that like to use the D-pad on 360. maybe this will stop the random srk’s caused by the old pad.

While aesthetically identical to the previous controller, the d-pad has been re-engineered to offer more instant control, with an eight way input taking place of the previous four. A brief hands-on with the controller playing Pro Evolution 2009 proved that the redesign has been effective, with the d-pad sitting in a larger rocker and proving more tactile.

It’s expected to release at the same time as this year’s Pro Evolution Soccer, and the re-design is thought to have been inspired by the imminent release of Street Fighter IV.

1500

Too bad for everybody else that already has 2+ controllers.

Seriously, whoever designed the 360 D-pad should have been shot. They got everything else so right on that thing and then decided anybody who uses digital controls should suffer.