Sorry dude a lot of what you say is wrong. First Akuma’s best escape option against Gief has been nerfed. Tatsu copter was a way better option that teleport was against Gief. Akuma is actually cornerable in this version. Teleport? Yea right not out of the corner. That’s a free SPD if I get baited. Gief can punish it if he isn’t doing something to let him out. If Akuma is teleporting out it is because you let him. Play footsies and punish attempts to get out. Just collecting a few hita ia huge for Gief.
U2 also keeps Akuma’s pressure off of Gief. It stops gimmicks dead.
The extra range on Giefs SPD also helps keep akuma honest. Overall this is not the worst rendition of the Gief Akuma match up. In fact I say it is the most balanced version.
It is still in Akuma’s favor but I find it is much harder fighting a gief who has good footsies and knows what to do than it ever has been. It is nothing close to Vanillia when I could Rush down most Giefs. Boy do I miss OSing the flip grab. Was so broken but so fun.
It’s like Akuma can’t cancel his teleport with U2 anymore or something. Yes, coward copter was a pretty damn good escape option, but I think the buffed U2 hit box makes up for it. In the same sense that Zangief can protect himself from Akuma’s pressure by having the threat of Ultra 2, so can Akuma.
U2 does help with pressure, I didn’t think about that. But Akuma still has options on his wake up and zoning available to him.
I don’t think the extra range on SPD helps keep Akuma honest. Not honest enough, anyway.
I thought Super was the most balanced because Akuma couldn’t just throw out U2 and stuff whatever (the hit box was kind of poor) and Zangief could knock him down and try stuff on his wake up. Not the case anymore.
Differing opinions if you ask me as nothing I said was “wrong.” With U2 stocked, Akuma can get out of the corner for free. If you try to keep him locked there, you’re taking a pretty unnecessary risk. Yes, you can sit where the teleport will end up…but are you really trapping Akuma in the corner if you’re giving up that much pressure?
No Gief can punish even with U 2 stocked. It is only out of the corner you can use U2 to punish Giefs attempts to chase. You can’t reliably punish SPD with U2.
U2 protects against OS and predictable teleport punishes but it still doesn’t make the teleports completely safe. All you have to do is time your punish so it lands right as Akuma becomes hitable. Akuma can’t react to this he has to gamble. If it whiffs you gave up Ultra and get punished even worse.
I’ve played enough good Giefs to know the teleport isn’t a good corner escape unless you can bait Gief into something. Otherwise look for a gap or knockdown to get out. Teleport only works against bad Giefs.
Nah. After Seth/Gief the new contenders for worst match-up would be E.Honda vs low-tiers (Super), top/mid tier vs T.Hawk (Super), Akuma vs Chun (any), and Sagat vs Honda (SF4).
How’s about we un-nerf what got nerfed in Super (Hell, give Rose her retarded U2 back even), let the characters that got buffs in AE keep those buffs, and then work from there. We need stronger characters.
All Gen really needs right now is actual normal attacks in crane mode that can link together. His mantis mode is pretty beast but his crane is basically good for only switching to during combos (in between combos) or to a specialistic attack like the overhead/underhead. And his air normals are good in crane.
More importantly after fighting a strong akuma yesterday and each time I got knocked down…let the mix-up game commence and Gen has no real way to deal with that shit at all. They should give Gen his EX Oga invincibility back. I mean other characters don’t have nearly as much problems with pressure/corner as Gen yet they have a teleport that does not cost one bar.
I believe I understand your premise, and I agree with it to a degree. Some suggested changes, like Spiral Arrow getting armor break are obviously a bad call and unwarranted. But Gouken sucked in Vanilla and Capcom has continued to sleep on him with every new iteration. So, hearing someone say he was OK or that the way to fix him is to not fix him and you should just play someone else kinda set me off.
I doubt Capcom will actually fix him for AE 2012, but we don’t have to help them ignore him. Instead, it would be nice if at least the players could agree he’s deficient and try to come up with some ideas on how he could be fixed.
The one part of your premise that I’m not sure I follow you on is this:
In most cases I can certainly understand being against changing the entire play style of a character. But it sounds like you’re taking this to the extreme. For example, Gouken has sucked in every iteration. It’s not that he lost his mojo. He never had it. They don’t need to completely change his play-style, but he needs something changed. While it’s not the cleanest way to fix him, I’m not completely against HNIC Mike’s suggestion of just giving him mega damage. However, I’d rather they fix his frame data and hit-boxes to not be complete ass. A man can dream…
Even me as a Rose player I dont want the U2 back like it was in super. I just want the hitbox and frame startup back without the invincibility. It sucks that Rose doesnt have any FADC-able combos except when you use 3 ex bars.
But removing the nerfs that some characters didnt deserve + keeping the buffs that the majority of the new cast got is a good idea
Ken:
fire srk to have 160 damage, ken mastered the srk and put fire on it yet its the weakest fp srk
shinruken non animation version to be increased in damage a bit more
un nerf cr.mk
shoryureppa to have 3 shoryukens and not 2
air tatsu as overhead
nerfs: none
chun li:
returned to super self and corner juggle ultra 1 to land fully on everyone
evil ryu:
better teleport
faster walk speed
a little more health and stun
less recovery on FB
Oni:
fireball to go full distance un charged and a little less recovery
ex air dashes that allow you to do any move after the dash except another air dash
srk that can be fadced on block
faster tatsu-slash startup and some invincibility on the EX version, and to do ultra after hitting the opponent with the ex version from the front
better angle on AA ultra 1, going straight up sucks
air ultra 1 should be much faster, its useless as of now
teleport
better input on ultra 2
faster sweep
^ Why would you want to buff Ken? He seems like he’s fine as-is in AE. And if they nerf the very top characters, which is assumed, he seems like he’d be a solid top-tier character. Why would someone like that deserve buffs? On top of that, the ones you propose don’t even sound like they address any particular issues.
As for Oni, I’ll only comment to say that I like U1 going straight up. However, I think it could use faster start-up. As it is, if you do it while someone is crossing you up on wake-up, most of the time they finish crossing you up before it becomes active and it whiffs.
What if Gouken could use his counter to absorb multihit fireballs(say up to 3hits so supers/ultra still work)? Would fit his zoner style, would make him no longer lose fireball wars so easily since even EX gohadouken requires charging to by multihit.
Or what about reducing the restriction on his dive kick so he is able to use it at more varied heights, its not like he can link much off of it or has a crazy strong vortex game.
Or what if he could hold his fireballs like Juri does, but while they are held they are being charged (except for EX)
Since this has now established itself as the ‘buff my character unreasonably’ thread, i guess i should go with the flow and throw my 2p in.
Yun:
Make LP/MP lunges safe on block if correctly spaced
Change LK/MK upkicks so they don’t whiff on anything crouching or half the time on standing blankas
Give his focus attack more range than his standing jab
Give him rufus speed recovery on divekicks so that you can safely crossup with them without needing a meaty off a knockdown
Make his sweep fast enough and far reaching enough that it can actually be used without people laughing at you
Remove the character specific limitations and variances on even his most basic BnBs like c.mp c.mp s.mp upkicks, or EX lunge into ultra, so that you don’t need 3 different lists of character specific basic combos to avoid eating massive punishes because your upkicks or ultra whiffs on RYU.
There, that’s about as sensible as the rest of the thread, so lets go Capcom.
Who thought it was a good idea to ask for balance suggestions on an internet forum again?
you posted insane yun nerfs but yet you want to buff an character that is top 5 ( ken ) as well as that said character going even with yun? like really? ken need no buffs or nerfs at all. if he did get a buff that i would tolerate, it would just be slightly faster walk speed.
Since the thread specifically asks for balance suggestions, and the OP seems to be aggregating them as a sort of majority consensus rather than discussing them on merit, you should welcome my input as i’m increasing the number of people’s opinions that are being represented by the thread, and so making the aggregate more accurate. Also, since i’m not a regular poster, i represent a pure external viewpoint that is untouched by the common biases of the forum. I’m not part of a SRK echo chamber that encourages people to parrot the ‘facts’ that they got from the same source.
“I posted on SRK about how character X is too strong and should be nerfed, i know character X is too strong because people keep posting about how strong he is on SRK. 10 people liked my post.”
You can either admit that random balance suggestions backed up by flimsy or non-existant reasoning on an internet forum aren’t worth anything to anyone, or you can value my opinion as increasing the size of the sample.
Even if i’m not a good player, from my experience of all competitive games i played, balance updates have always been a pain in the ass, every game which have some kind of “meta” is too hard to balance, and when by chance the result is “approximately” balanced, any update can only make the thing worse.
When we look at AE, it’s not a bad a game, even Yun which is god tier have some kind of bad or even matchup, i’m pretty scared about what will happen in 2K12, however i hope the change will be slight, like nerfing a little god tier, buffing a little low mid tier/low tier.
Finally this kind of thread are stupid, you want to make something that capcom can read ?
So let’s some elite player write a whole reflection of what they think about the game, let’s people of the forum to vote about 2 or 3 of this topic, without giving their stupid point of view of how they char should be buffed. If we got 3 or 4 paragraph of good reflection about the game that would be an unexpectedly god result, but don’t hope about Capcom reading 27 pages of shit to know what you think.