If you don’t buff up some of the areas he is beyond sub par in then you’ll have to OVER buff the areas he is intended to be good at if you want him to be “balanced” with the characters who are average or good at everything or almost everything. This leads to making the game more about counter picks and rock paper scissors. And players still wont play Gouken because despite the fact he has a move that shuts down half the cast (hypothetically) he is also completely shutdown by the other half making him too much of a liability to play at high level.
A well balanced game isn’t one where Gouken has nothing but 8-2 and 2-8 matchups.
Dont disagree with you. However I have addressed this point repeatedly. Buffing or altering what he HAS or has had in the past. I am discussing people talking about tweaks and changes that are entirely new to the character or completely change the make up of his intended play style.
Put everything back to how it was in Super, atleast for the characters that were in that game.
Cammy versus Claw (Super)
Cammy versus Claw (AE)
Sagat vs Zangief (Vanilla)
Sagat vs Zangief (AE)
Akuma vs Zangief (Vanilla)
Akuma vs Zangief (AE)
Dhalsim vs Yun (AE)
i assure you that all of these match ups are close to, about as bad or worse than Seth vs Zangief in vanilla
tons of people have this strange idea that Zangief could not win at all in vanilla. seth could keep zangief out for days and had a practically guaranteed ultra, but one mistake was likely the end of the round. akuma and sagat could not only keep zangief out for days, but make mistakes and deal huge damage. in super, seth versus zangief is actually pretty even (still slightly in seth’s favor) and you could argue that it’s in zangief’s favor with AE (not that I really think it is, but some people do.)
but, i do agree with the idea that yun isn’t blowing everyone up. while he pretty much has almost no bad match ups and plenty of good ones, he only really outright dominates in two or three of them.
nahhh i disagree with the assertion that cammy blows up vega THAT badly
say what you will about vega but there’s no way he’s ever lost to anyone that badly
if it’s anyone, it’s also definitely not cammy, it’s rufus that fucks vega shit up. but even in super it was barely worse than a 6-4, most definitely a 6.5 at WORST, and most definitely not an 8-2. that’s like totally unwinnable, and vega definitely had his fair share of opportunities against both characters. In the corner maybe an 8-2 to but you’ve gotta make some bad reads to get there first.
in fact the only one you posted there that would agree with is dhalsim v. yun. That seems REALLY bad
I’ve been playing as Bison (main) since SF4 and sometimes use Gouken as sub just because he’s fun.
I think there’s an undeniable huge difference between their potential…
Gouken has lots of holes.
I don’t think Capcom would do this, but I’d give him controllable EX Demon Flip to get out of some situations. It could be baited with backjump, of couse.
I agree with a poster here. They’re not addressing Gouken’s huge holes. Overly ridiculous damage would be nice. 180 damage for all counters. 120-180 damage for Palms. Ridiculous damage for EX Tatsu. 70 damage Hadoken.
He can’t hit the opponent often anyway.
You jest, sir.
Down-back all day, punish sloppy dive kicks and blocked spiral arrows with cr.lpx2 into cr.mp into anything I desire. 8-2? Not in Cammy’s wildest dream. Especially since in Super we got an overhead, and in AE we got an upgraded cr.mk, which both help us in this match. 5-5.
Right on. Seth had a wall jump, a 5f DP, and a teleport which placed him relative to where his opponent was standing. He would terrorize Zangief with his limbs, Sonic Boom and his Ultra trap. Sometimes he’d even go on the offensive (pretty risky though…)
Then there was Akuma. 100 more health. Much more damaging. Actually stunned you for guessing wrong. Sweep into vortex. fst.HK. Faster fireball, faster recovery. Air fireballs (which couldn’t be hit or counter hit more importantly.) 3f DP. Teleport which isn’t dependent on his foe. 600 damage Ultra (my memory is pretty foggy on his one…) which was actually a pretty decent AA. I think he had fst.HK loop and a better demon flip but I can’t remember this too well.
And honestly? I don’t see how anyone could think the match up isn’t 7-3 in AE. He can teleport for free once you corner him. Zangief isn’t going to EX GH through shit and get lucky. They should really change something with Akuma. Zangief is supposed to have an issue with Sagat by design, but with Akuma, it’s a little ridiculous.
I don’t think any of the match ups have ever been 8-2 by the standards others employ. But Cammy versus Vega has always been a bad match up. IV has always been an incredibly balanced game, people bitch too much.
Oh, and personally, I think Gouken could live with his AE changes if they
put counter back to Super status
gave him a universal hit confirm that hits for about 190 and can be FADCed into something decent.
