Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread

If it talks like a duck, walks likes a duck…
If you had played SF for a while, you would remember character lock tournaments and who won those, and how limited the playing field was.

Show me the last time a known guile lost to a known dictator.
Show me a known Seth losing to a known Gief in Super.
Pick any 7-3 or more and show me a solid match of the 3 character winning. Winnable? Yes. Realistically winnable? No. Especially in tournament play.

whatever man. Vega is worse in AE.

  • cosmic heel was nerfed, which was stupid.
  • His ONLY get the fuck off me move, Ultra 2 was nerfed.

Instead we got link cr.MP off EX roll…yay. the rolls suck so bad anyway that it doesn’t even matter. Not to mention is does the same damage as his EX fba combo. pointless.

I think it is easy to pick an alt out of the 39 characters to backup their main. In terms of rules, EVO is quite fair. No character lock, switchable between matches. Those 7-3 haven’t been a huge problem so far.

If someone counterpicks my Blanka with Fei or Cammy(Blanka’s 7-3 matchups), and their Fei or Cammy is not very strong, I’m not going to lose. If they’ve cultivated one of those characters to a high level? Well that is smart of them to have multiple characters, but I probably know the matchup better than them still. Also i still have the option to switch to one of my other characters if I choose to do so. Blind pick is also available most of the time so that is another option.

Who gets to decide what characters are “non-legit”? You could balance the game around 16 or 20 characters probably, but then you are saying screw you to everyone else.

Shit, if 16-20 characters were viable the game would be fucking GOLDEN.

I wanted to defend you, but then you spouted nonsense about “non-legit” characters. Other than Dan who Capcom has deemed a ‘joke’ character (but still is a solid choice.) who are you to decide who is a “non-legit” character? What IS a non-legit character? Are they non-legit because they weren’t in SF2T? Are they non-legit because they are kind of silly looking?(Where does that put Rufus?)

I’d say Abel and Makoto have worse wakeup games. There are plenty of other chars that are nearly as bad as Juri or worse. I agree that FSE needs work, especially in comparison to Genei-Jin or Seiei Enbu. Mostly I think it needs some normalization (there are videos that show that Juri’s move properties are actually sometimes worse during FSE.

Dhalsim
If he played even remotely like he does in ST, where he has a good mix of zoning tools and maneuverability for offensive play, he’d do OK against characters like Yun. But instead, he plays like he does. They could tweak him. But let’s be real, no large changes are ever made in SF4, only tiny tweaks. So, I don’t think there’s a way to avoid Yun being a rough match in SF4. But hey, Sim’s a rough match for shotos so…whatever.

Fei and Yun
These characters quite obviously need nerfs. The way they can rattle out their offense with little consequence is just plain dumb IMO. It might be acceptable if it was hard for them to get in or if it was hard for them to deal with you when you got in, but it’s not. There’s a lot of ways they could nerf these characters a bit and still leave them perfectly viable. My personal preference would be to leave defense, damage, etc. the same and just make some of their offense less safe.

Oni
Some or all of these would be nice:

  • Be able to FADC SRK on block. I get it, he’s supposed to be a master character. Whatever. Save that for the anime. I think this is the same reasoning that’s kept Gouken’s as a second rate character throughout the series. Everyone else can FADC, and I can’t think of a good gameplay reason why he can’t. So give him it.

  • Make TC2 hit crouching characters. I doubt this will happen, but Ken got it…so I’ll keep the dream alive.

  • Make LP/MP jetpack recovery a little better and/or give the canceled tatsu a better hitbox. LP is only useful for some specific cross-up dash xx tatsu gimmicks, which are hard to land and for an occasional ballsy corner escape that’s not very safe even if you don’t get hit on the way out. MP seems almost useless. I’m sure there’s some obscure use, but I haven’t found much. These don’t have to be great, just better than almost useless.

  • Make his MK slash better at going through fireballs. Maybe faster start-up? Maybe the same speed but invincible to fireballs earlier?

  • Give EX slash a better hit-box. He glows yellow. It’s plain as day. This gives you ample warning to block it as a cross-up or to throw him as he passes you. It doesn’t need to lose for free to any mashed attack as well.

  • Make the slash motion stricter so that you have to start at back and hit more of the HCF motion. Currently, if you’re in crouch block and try to perform fwd + MK to do the hop forward kick you’ll get MK slash and get raped for it. It also seems too easy to get slash when you want ground pound.

  • Fireballs going full screen would be nice, but it’s not a huge deal.

  • Make Airborne U1 better. The hitbox is absurdly small. It’d be nice if this had a bigger hitbox so you could use it for a flashy chip-damage kill or something. Currently they can just walk or dash out of the way. Alternatively, making it fly faster or start-up faster might work. Not a big deal if it’s not addressed, but it’s basically useless as it is.

Non-legit are those characters like Hakan and Dan. Any character who, by design, is not good enough to compete evenly with a large majority of the cast, even after buffing. We all know they will never compete evenly. (Dan might if he was redesigned in some areas, especially considering his pressure game.) But, even besides that, balancing the game around 16-20 characters would be an improvement over what we have now. I really don’t mean to say screw you to anyone. But I also think it’s easy to overestimate the number of 7-3s in this game as well.

I’m not saying everyone would be viable in that respect. I’m just saying if you said screw you to half the cast it would be easier to attempt to balance things.

You could buff Dan and Hakan to be top tier characters, what are you talking about?

Wouldn’t Dan sort of lose his trolling aurora if he actually became a pretty decent character? Dan is already an annoying gimmick as is.

Any character can be top tier with unrealistic buffs like 200+ dmg normals. What realistic buffs would you give them to make them top tier? They would likely need new moves, but I am guessing we aren’t going to get that out of a free balance update. Dan and hakan supporters feel free to suggest buffs. There was a good one a few pages back relating to the frame data of Dan’s pressure game (dan kicks). But he would still be left with a bunch of severely bad matchups, especially against zoners.

Edit: I think you might have got hung up on my “after buffing” sentence. I meant the buffs from Vanilla to Super to AE. Dan has been buffed numerous times, Hakan received serious buffs, but they are still non-competitive characters. Dan is likely intentional. I don’t know about Hakan. Seems like it.

Stop talking about characters you don’t know. You don’t know these characters! You have no grounds, 100% of 0 grounds, to talk about them. You’ve clearly never even seen a good player use them, let alone play against a good player using them or learn how to use them well yourself. I’m so sick of the random and completely undeserved hate on Hakan and Dan. I’d actually be kinda scared about giving Hakan more than just a couple tiny buffs, that’s how high I think his ceiling is. And Dan could be A-tier with just a few minor things.

I wish so hard there was a way to put the following message into everyone’s brain at the same time: Hakan and Dan are not bad, they’re not jokes, don’t talk about them if you have no experience with them.

You have no idea at allllll whether Dan would have bad matchups if he got the buffs I suggested, you don’t even have any grounds to challenge anything I said. You know how many people know? Maybe like, a dozen people in North America. There are a few good players who post on SRK and play on XBL, and then there’s me and the half dozen players I play with offline. I just don’t understand the compulsion to post about things you don’t know that you and a million other people have, man, I really don’t.

Hakan is mad scary if he’s oiled and he knocks you down in the corner. uncrouchable ddt setups are insane.

UD, I respect your views and I know you like both of those characters, but I still think Hakan and Dan are basically free except in a few matchups. I have played both good Dans and Hakans (especially Hakans). But I’m not against balancing them. All for it, actually. My point was that if you remove them from consideration the game has only a few 7-3s left to balance out. Capcom has clearly left Dan behind. Maybe they just messed up on Hakan.

until you just realize to wake up jabbing or shorting.

And Gouken is never mentioned. I’d say he’s in competition for who’s the shittier character. At least the character design of Dan and Hakan make sense.

then you get hit by meaty command grab! mixups!

some faggot in another thread is asking for Ibuki nerfs now since HE can’t deal with her.

Remind me again how this site is different from gamefaqs or unity?

It isn’t

Come on man, I call extreme shenanigans on this. Or maybe our definitions of good players are different, I dunno. But im no you haven’t, because no one has. The best I’ve seen with either character is just alright.